Thuggies Doggies

[dwayne pype]

When "pit bulls'' first came to prominence sometime in the eighties they weren't promoted as loving companions or family pets but rather as biting, fighting unstoppable super dogs & aimed directly at a niche market.

The target? The Thuggy McWannabes & his like minded associates.

& Thuggy & his associates certainly wanted these dogs, as did shyster, anything for quick buck, scumbags who saw massive profits to be had & jumped on the band wagon.

Puppies were going for up to $10,000, yes, $10k per. & demand far outstripped supply.

Long story short, Thuggy & the shysters were breeding like crazy to recoup their capitol outlay & get into the black.

Ethics, genetics, even breeding pure to pure was lost on these entrepeneurs & the ''breed'' suffered irrepairable damage. All that was left was a trail of ruin, a load of rubbish, &, for the most part, in the dubious hands of the irresponsible.

The dogs were starting to make the news for all the wrong reasons. & continued to do so, Thuggy love the publicity, it was good for business.

As with everything, forunes eventually reversed & the supply eventually outweighed demand. The prices dropped.

The going price fell to as low as $200.

Then the saviour of the Thuggies appeared on the horizon - like a knight in shining armour, it was the B.S.L. - the ''breed'' was banned, all kinds of restrictions were put in place to ensure the ''breed'' would die out.

Thuggy smiled

It was manna from heaven for Thuggy. All the B.S.L did was drive them undergroud & create a blackmarket. Demand increased. Prices starting to skyrocket. - Thuggy was happy. Thuggy was in the money again. Nothing had really changed.

B.S.L is a no brainer, but it is here to stay. At least for the forseeable future. No pollie would want to be known as the one who repealed this obnoxious legislation if a kid was mauled by a ''pit bull'' what ever the #@*& that is. It is just easier & safer for them to leave things as they are.

All the while the REAL APBT was being nutured by committed ethical, registered breeders. They are handsome, reliable, faithful companions. Bred to a standard for conformation & temperament - They are the American Staffordshire Terrier.

It would be pleasing to see all the "pit bull" would be saviors get behind the real deal now that it has been put squarely in the line of fire by uneducated, uninformed & badly advised persons.

Get behind the ANKC registered, recognised pure breed - the American Staffordshire Terrier - now.

Tomorrow may just be too late.

[OzPit]

All the while the REAL APBT was being nutured by committed ethical, registered breeders. They are handsome, reliable, faithful companions. Bred to a standard for conformation & temperament - They are the American Staffordshire Terrier.

It would be pleasing to see all the "pit bull" would be saviors get behind the real deal now that it has been put squarely in the line of fire by uneducated, uninformed & badly advised persons.

Get behind the ANKC registered, recognised pure breed - the American Staffordshire Terrier - now.

Tomorrow may just be too late.

Although it's not recognised by the ANKC, the APBT IS a real breed. It has a standard and there ARE ethical (but obviously not registered) breeders of these dogs in Australia.

The AST is NOT the same dog. Genetically, yes. In terms of type and temperament, no - they are quite different.

I'm interested in this:

It would be pleasing to see all the "pit bull" would be saviors get behind the real deal now that it has been put squarely in the line of fire by uneducated, uninformed & badly advised persons.

The APBT, whilst not recognised in Australia, IS the "real deal". The AST is a show strain and is very different. Regardless, BOTH breeds are targeted by uneducated, uninformed and badly advised persons. IMO it would be wiser to fight BSL altogether instead of just fighting for this breed or that breed. Because if you won't fight for the APBT then you are effectively admitting that you agree the AST should also be targeted.

I don't understand AST people who are happy to call their dogs the "real deal" ... but then want their "real" dogs to be spared from BSL? If you don't want to fight for the APBT, fine. But don't then wander around calling the AST the "real deal" and then expect them to be spared.

[geo]

Got to agree with you Ozpit, i have seen planty of real deal pits here, well bred, well trained and well nurtured.

[RottnBullies]

That's a cracker of a story there, did you come up with that all by yourself??

I'll give you a gold star for such a thorough factual account Of It all

The APBT IS the REAL Deal, and far from the trail of ruin, and a load of rubbish that you claim them to be. And "we" would appreciate that you "would be Am Staff saviors" stop slandering the APBT for your own gain and purposes...... as It Is becoming quite pathetic, and there Is nothing to be gained for It except the loss of support.

[tybrax]

When "pit bulls'' first came to prominence sometime in the eighties they weren't promoted as loving companions or family pets but rather as biting, fighting unstoppable super dogs & aimed directly at a niche market.

The target? The Thuggy McWannabes & his like minded associates.

& Thuggy & his associates certainly wanted these dogs, as did shyster, anything for quick buck, scumbags who saw massive profits to be had & jumped on the band wagon.

Puppies were going for up to $10,000, yes, $10k per. & demand far outstripped supply.

Long story short, Thuggy & the shysters were breeding like crazy to recoup their capitol outlay & get into the black.

Ethics, genetics, even breeding pure to pure was lost on these entrepeneurs & the ''breed'' suffered irrepairable damage. All that was left was a trail of ruin, a load of rubbish, &, for the most part, in the dubious hands of the irresponsible.

The dogs were starting to make the news for all the wrong reasons. & continued to do so, Thuggy love the publicity, it was good for business.

As with everything, forunes eventually reversed & the supply eventually outweighed demand. The prices dropped.

The going price fell to as low as $200.

Then the saviour of the Thuggies appeared on the horizon - like a knight in shining armour, it was the B.S.L. - the ''breed'' was banned, all kinds of restrictions were put in place to ensure the ''breed'' would die out.

Thuggy smiled

It was manna from heaven for Thuggy. All the B.S.L did was drive them undergroud & create a blackmarket. Demand increased. Prices starting to skyrocket. - Thuggy was happy. Thuggy was in the money again. Nothing had really changed.

B.S.L is a no brainer, but it is here to stay. At least for the forseeable future. No pollie would want to be known as the one who repealed this obnoxious legislation if a kid was mauled by a ''pit bull'' what ever the #@*& that is. It is just easier & safer for them to leave things as they are.

All the while the REAL APBT was being nutured by committed ethical, registered breeders. They are handsome, reliable, faithful companions. Bred to a standard for conformation & temperament - They are the American Staffordshire Terrier.

It would be pleasing to see all the "pit bull" would be saviors get behind the real deal now that it has been put squarely in the line of fire by uneducated, uninformed & badly advised persons.

Get behind the ANKC registered, recognised pure breed - the American Staffordshire Terrier - now.

Tomorrow may just be too late.

You have to be joking.............10 points for the laugh.

[APBT]

HAHAHA how do people come up with this rubbish?

To the OP, Find something else to do.

[zayda_asher]

Regardless, BOTH breeds are targeted by uneducated, uninformed and badly advised persons. IMO it would be wiser to fight BSL altogether instead of just fighting for this breed or that breed.

Exactly! I fail to see how someone can love one and not the other

As they say: "Unite, fight, get dog laws right"

[Pitchick]

That's a cracker of a story there, did you come up with that all by yourself??

I'll give you a gold star for such a thorough factual account Of It all

The APBT IS the REAL Deal, and far from the trail of ruin, and a load of rubbish that you claim them to be. And "we" would appreciate that you "would be Am Staff saviors" stop slandering the APBT for your own gain and purposes...... as It Is becoming quite pathetic, and there Is nothing to be gained for It except the loss of support.

lol here here couldnt agree more D

[Black Bronson]

Regardless, BOTH breeds are targeted by uneducated, uninformed and badly advised persons. IMO it would be wiser to fight BSL altogether instead of just fighting for this breed or that breed.

Exactly! I fail to see how someone can love one and not the other :D

As they say: "Unite, fight, get dog laws right"

We do have to be careful and not have any more fluff up's that places other breeds under the BSL spotlight. The situation that happened in QLD with the Amstaff was just stupid, what were they thinking

[geo]

We do have to be careful and not have any more fluff up's that places other breeds under the BSL spotlight. The situation that happened in QLD with the Amstaff was just stupid, what were they thinking

I'm sure they were thinking about saving their dog and fighting BSL, they've sure saved a lot of dogs which is more than most people on here, and by no means thought about putting the amstaff in the spotlight, that was the GCCC so build a bridge and get over it.

[tybrax]

We do have to be careful and not have any more fluff up's that places other breeds under the BSL spotlight. The situation that happened in QLD with the Amstaff was just stupid, what were they thinking

I'm sure they were thinking about saving their dog and fighting BSL, they've sure saved a lot of dogs which is more than most people on here, and by no means thought about putting the amstaff in the spotlight, that was the GCCC so build a bridge and get over it.

;) Great comment Geo.

[hyjak]

on that note, what has happened there?

has there been a final outcome yet?

[chrisjc]

it realy is a shame that some people dont realise the effect hard drugs have on their brain.

look far enough back into my pedigree papers, and you will find that i have a good forty years of purebred APBTs before the AST was even thought about.

If thats not real i would like you to tell me what is.

[ima barka]

Reading the first post did rekindle memories of my first awareness of the APBT.

I do recall the sudden prominence of the breed. I do recall it being promoted solely & blatanly as a the baddest of the bad asses & I do recall the seemingly implausible prices being demanded, & apparently achieved.

I also remember the almost daily expansion of column inches in the for sale sections of the classifieds & wondering where did all these dogs come from? If you believe these were all ethical responsible breeder ads you must also believe in the tooth fairy.

& I remember the trickle turning to a torrent of dog attacks attributed to these dogs.

Not just run of the mill dog bite stories on page 16. Front page banners of prolonged, vicious attacks that left people & animals severely injured &, sadly, some fatal. It wasn't unusal for the victims to be the dogs owner or a family member. Whether these were fair & unbias accounts is immaterial, these dogs were now firmly implanted in the publics psyche as demons. A runaway train was in motion.

I also remember the warnings given by the applying of restriction for the keeping of this breed. All of which were ignored.

I didn't, in my wildest dreams, envisage anything as obnoxious as a B.S.L however. But given the luxury of hindsight, I guess it really was inevitable.

Now the rant,

As a breeder/owner/exhibitor of recognised, registered pure breeds I feel no obligation to link arms with for what all intents & purposes is the ''breed'' responsible, stand on the tracks & defy this runaway train called the B.S.L.

My first obligation is to ANKC registered pure breeds.

Once our position is secure & our charges are safe, then we can turn our energies to a derailment.

I know this line of thought isn't P.C. here but it is honest.

& ''we'' really don't deserve the guilt trip being laid on ''us'' over this issue either, rather, ''we'' deserve an apology for the aggravation now being felt right across dogdom.

Footnote.

You can argue that APBTs are a pure breed until you are blue in face. But the fact is it's not recognised by any bona fide, internationally recognised, affiliated pure breed registry in the world. Not even it's country of origins.

My opinion as to why, for what it's worth, is because it really doesn't have a legitmate standard. A standard that actually defines it as a stand alone breed.

There is no doubt there criterior meeting pure breeds are out there, but, depending where you are they can vary by 40cms in height & 40 kgs in weight & still be accepted as ''Pure Breed APBTs." Which is ridiculous, in a bona fide pure breed sense.

Another footnote.

When I read some of the so called history of the APBT offered here the words of the song "'It Necessarily So" boom out in background.

Consider the possibility

Did the Americans renamed the original ''staffy'', brought to their shores by English immigrants, as the APBT, & the APBT people then renamed the APBT as the Staffordshire Terrier to gain AKC registration & the AKC then renamed the Staffordshire Terrier as the American Staffordshire Terrier to distigquish it from the SBT.

Absolutely - full circle.

[geo]

Reading the first post did rekindle memories of my first awareness of the APBT.

I do recall the sudden prominence of the breed. I do recall it being promoted solely & blatanly as a the baddest of the bad asses & I do recall the seemingly implausible prices being demanded, & apparently achieved.

I also remember the almost daily expansion of column inches in the for sale sections of the classifieds & wondering where did all these dogs come from? If you believe these were all ethical responsible breeder ads you must also believe in the tooth fairy.

& I remember the trickle turning to a torrent of dog attacks attributed to these dogs.

Not just run of the mill dog bite stories on page 16. Front page banners of prolonged, vicious attacks that left people & animals severely injured &, sadly, some fatal. It wasn't unusal for the victims to be the dogs owner or a family member. Whether these were fair & unbias accounts is immaterial, these dogs were now firmly implanted in the publics psyche as demons. A runaway train was in motion.

I also remember the warnings given by the applying of restriction for the keeping of this breed. All of which were ignored.

I didn't, in my wildest dreams, envisage anything as obnoxious as a B.S.L however. But given the luxury of hindsight, I guess it really was inevitable.

Now the rant,

As a breeder/owner/exhibitor of recognised, registered pure breeds I feel no obligation to link arms with for what all intents & purposes is the ''breed'' responsible, stand on the tracks & defy this runaway train called the B.S.L.

My first obligation is to ANKC registered pure breeds.

Once our position is secure & our charges are safe, then we can turn our energies to a derailment.

I know this line of thought isn't P.C. here but it is honest.

& ''we'' really don't deserve the guilt trip being laid on ''us'' over this issue either, rather, ''we'' deserve an apology for the aggravation now being felt right across dogdom.

Footnote.

You can argue that APBTs are a pure breed until you are blue in face. But the fact is it's not recognised by any bona fide, internationally recognised, affiliated pure breed registry in the world. Not even it's country of origins.

My opinion as to why, for what it's worth, is because it really doesn't have a legitmate standard. A standard that actually defines it as a stand alone breed.

There is no doubt there criterior meeting pure breeds are out there, but, depending where you are they can vary by 40cms in height & 40 kgs in weight & still be accepted as ''Pure Breed APBTs." Which is ridiculous, in a bona fide pure breed sense.

Another footnote.

When I read some of the so called history of the APBT offered here the words of the song "'It Necessarily So" boom out in background.

Consider the possibility

Did the Americans renamed the original ''staffy'', brought to their shores by English immigrants, as the APBT, & the APBT people then renamed the APBT as the Staffordshire Terrier to gain AKC registration & the AKC then renamed the Staffordshire Terrier as the American Staffordshire Terrier to distigquish it from the SBT.

Absolutely - full circle.

I cannot belive you doubt the fact that it is a pure bred dog, and standards are just something to aim for when people are breeding, judges all judge differently and their opinions vary greatly... do you forget that the Amstaff standard was based on a Colby dog, one of the oldest bloodlines in pitbull history is the standard for the Amstaff..!!! are you going to say that only an amstaff is pure because the ANKC says so, and forget the UKC, AKC, ADBA, APBR etc..

sure there are dubious breeders out there and it's these people that have been the downfall of the breed not the dog. it has never been the dogs fault, but human mistreatment. Shame on you for blaming a dog for all of our dog woes.

An apology, how rude, if it wasn't for all the elitest snobs in 'dogdom' we could've fought this a long time ago, but no they all wantedto wash their hands of the 'pitbull'.

[ima barka]

Reading the first post did rekindle memories of my first awareness of the APBT.

I do recall the sudden prominence of the breed. I do recall it being promoted solely & blatanly as a the baddest of the bad asses & I do recall the seemingly implausible prices being demanded, & apparently achieved.

I also remember the almost daily expansion of column inches in the for sale sections of the classifieds & wondering where did all these dogs come from? If you believe these were all ethical responsible breeder ads you must also believe in the tooth fairy.

& I remember the trickle turning to a torrent of dog attacks attributed to these dogs.

Not just run of the mill dog bite stories on page 16. Front page banners of prolonged, vicious attacks that left people & animals severely injured &, sadly, some fatal. It wasn't unusal for the victims to be the dogs owner or a family member. Whether these were fair & unbias accounts is immaterial, these dogs were now firmly implanted in the publics psyche as demons. A runaway train was in motion.

I also remember the warnings given by the applying of restriction for the keeping of this breed. All of which were ignored.

I didn't, in my wildest dreams, envisage anything as obnoxious as a B.S.L however. But given the luxury of hindsight, I guess it really was inevitable.

Now the rant,

As a breeder/owner/exhibitor of recognised, registered pure breeds I feel no obligation to link arms with for what all intents & purposes is the ''breed'' responsible, stand on the tracks & defy this runaway train called the B.S.L.

My first obligation is to ANKC registered pure breeds.

Once our position is secure & our charges are safe, then we can turn our energies to a derailment.

I know this line of thought isn't P.C. here but it is honest.

& ''we'' really don't deserve the guilt trip being laid on ''us'' over this issue either, rather, ''we'' deserve an apology for the aggravation now being felt right across dogdom.

Footnote.

You can argue that APBTs are a pure breed until you are blue in face. But the fact is it's not recognised by any bona fide, internationally recognised, affiliated pure breed registry in the world. Not even it's country of origins.

My opinion as to why, for what it's worth, is because it really doesn't have a legitmate standard. A standard that actually defines it as a stand alone breed.

There is no doubt there criterior meeting pure breeds are out there, but, depending where you are they can vary by 40cms in height & 40 kgs in weight & still be accepted as ''Pure Breed APBTs." Which is ridiculous, in a bona fide pure breed sense.

Another footnote.

When I read some of the so called history of the APBT offered here the words of the song "'It Necessarily So" boom out in background.

Consider the possibility

Did the Americans renamed the original ''staffy'', brought to their shores by English immigrants, as the APBT, & the APBT people then renamed the APBT as the Staffordshire Terrier to gain AKC registration & the AKC then renamed the Staffordshire Terrier as the American Staffordshire Terrier to distigquish it from the SBT.

Absolutely - full circle.

I cannot belive you doubt the fact that it is a pure bred dog, and standards are just something to aim for when people are breeding, judges all judge differently and their opinions vary greatly... do you forget that the Amstaff standard was based on a Colby dog, one of the oldest bloodlines in pitbull history is the standard for the Amstaff..!!! are you going to say that only an amstaff is pure because the ANKC says so, and forget the UKC, AKC, ADBA, APBR etc..

sure there are dubious breeders out there and it's these people that have been the downfall of the breed not the dog. it has never been the dogs fault, but human mistreatment. Shame on you for blaming a dog for all of our dog woes.

An apology, how rude, if it wasn't for all the elitest snobs in 'dogdom' we could've fought this a long time ago, but no they all wantedto wash their hands of the 'pitbull'.

Maybe you should re read my comments. You have gone off half cocked accusing me of things I haven't said. What I have said is what I believe. What I have said is fact.

If being a ANKC registered breeder/owner/exhibitor that resents my breed being place at risk because of the anti social behavior of a group of yobbos who besmirched the entire canine community with their anti social dogs makes me an elitist snob. So be it.

Stay off the tracks, there's a train coming. It's the pit bull special & it doesn't care who it runs over.

[geo]

I cannot belive you doubt the fact that it is a pure bred dog, and standards are just something to aim for when people are breeding, judges all judge differently and their opinions vary greatly... do you forget that the Amstaff standard was based on a Colby dog, one of the oldest bloodlines in pitbull history is the standard for the Amstaff..!!! are you going to say that only an amstaff is pure because the ANKC says so, and forget the UKC, AKC, ADBA, APBR etc..

sure there are dubious breeders out there and it's these people that have been the downfall of the breed not the dog. it has never been the dogs fault, but human mistreatment. Shame on you for blaming a dog for all of our dog woes.

An apology, how rude, if it wasn't for all the elitest snobs in 'dogdom' we could've fought this a long time ago, but no they all wantedto wash their hands of the 'pitbull'.

Maybe you should re read my comments. You have gone off half cocked accusing me of things I haven't said. What I have said is what I believe. What I have said is fact.

If being a ANKC registered breeder/owner/exhibitor that resents my breed being place at risk because of the anti social behavior of a group of yobbos who besmirched the entire canine community with their anti social dogs makes me an elitist snob. So be it.

Stay off the tracks, there's a train coming. It's the pit bull special & it doesn't care who it runs over.

I think we should both re-read comments, as i didn't call you a snob, we both agree yobbos have put us in this position, and i'm certainly no yobbo. Your post was half fact, re-read my post i mention that i believe an APBT is a purebreed, how you think they're not is beyond me.. sure in your shoes i'd feel a annoyed (ANKC dog owners are the minority of pet owners in this country) but it's not the dogs fault but the idiot owners, and they're only such a small number, i bet more yobbos own amstaffs than well bred pits any day.. So the sooner you stop blaming a breed and start thinking that we should unite the better.

[RottnBullies]

Are you for real An apology!!

Where was the apology when "Certain members of the Doggie world" sold out on the APBT?.....long before this sh!t hit the fan!!!

I guess people only remember what they wish to remember It's called selective memory!

Tracks have already been railroaded a long time ago and certainly not from the APBT

I leave you with a quote from Diane Jessop

Back in the 1980's, I was sitting in a Washington state legislative hearing concerning the possible statewide banning of all bulldog breeds. I was sitting next to the then vice-president of the American Kennel Club. When he stood to speak, his words burned into my memory as some of the most inaccurate, ignorant and snobbish I had ever heard.

"There is," he told the lawmakers looking to him for accurate information, "absolutely no such breed as the 'pit bull'; it is not registered with the American Kennel Club."

As I stared at him, dumbstruck really, I couldn't help but think of the 300 plus breeds which do not happen to grace the stud books of the American Kennel Club. This man certainly did not know his American Staffordshire history - that much was evident. From whence did he think the show-bred brother to the pit bull came from? Was he unaware that the AKC had opened its "pure" stud books to this "non-breed", the "pit bull", not once, but three times (the last time as late as the 1970's)? And yet now, like a Peter, this man was denying the breed which formed the basis for at least three AKC registered breeds, its very identity.

Was it intentional, or truly ignorance? It certainly could have been either, for few breeds have such a straightforward history tangled into knots so fouled that many of its own fanciers can't unravel it.

American Staffordshire Terrier uses APBT then dumps them for dead

History Is a fact that no one can deny

[zayda_asher]

American Staffordshire Terrier uses APBT then dumps them for dead

I've had a foot in both camps for years (own and unpapered dog as well as papered) and I've fought BSL from the day I found out of its existence... its comments like this, made by both sides that fuel all this crap... the pro BSL mob must be laughing their butts off at us, because whilst we fight like this and both sides make inflammatory and ridiculous comments that generalise about the other camp nothing will change.

I remember now why I don't normally look at these threads: I just see people who should work together, making fools of themselves arguing over who's dick dog is better than the other and who started what. Neither side is guilt free in this... RottnBullies I've done nothing but support my APBT brethren, I love your dogs just as much as I love my own, and that comment hurts me just as much as whoever you aimed it at (as do the comments made by ANKC people that my unpapered dog is some how not as lovely because she has no papers). I did no such thing, my dogs did no such thing. Until we stop hurting each other, and stop doing the work of the pro BSLers for them in doing so, we haven't a chance.

We're all adults, so please don't any one say now "but they started it".

I'm really ashamed when I read these threads and think that the general public and media and law makers read them...

Edited May 18, 2010 by zayda_asher

[RottnBullies]

Zayda I'm sorry you have been offended and I do know you have batted for both sides, so to you and others who have I apologize for that. I also love the Am Staff and did not wish any of this to happen. But It also hurts me too to see comments made about the APBT In this way. I mean have a look at the title to begin with.

I agree that we need to unite, I always have, but how Is this possible when people are always going to class "us" as second class or Inferior because our dogs aren't papered.

Deep down I think you should know that I never meant to offend anyone who has stood up for both sides. It Is hard not to get emotional over It though