Main Register? - Limited Register?

[Wags]

I beleive this post by Jed says it all.

QUOTE

"From time to time the question arises of whether breeders make a profit or not. Who cares? Obviously someone does, or they wouldn't ask. Why? I have no idea. Is it wrong to make a profit? Is it right?

I never respond from a personal point of view. I have no idea whether I make a profit or not. I care for the dogs, spend whatever needs to be spent, and sell the pups for the average price. Sometimes things don't go well, and it costs more than I get back. Sometimes the income from the pups is more than the cost of getting them. That's life.

I don't keep records of income and expenditure. If I wanted to know, I would probably work it out, and I would probably find that over a year I was covering the costs. I don't worry too much about it. The profits are not in the money in the bank.

But there are huge profits, for me, from keeping and breeding dogs.

The profits are in seeing happy, glossy dogs playing in the garden, waggy tails and wide smiles when I come home from work. In constant smiling companionship. The pleasure of grooming them, or stroking them, or playing with them. They don't care what's on TV, they never complain if I am home late, they never fret or sulk if I don't have as much time tonight as I had last night. That confiding little nose pushed under my arm at night, that little body curled at my feet.

The profts are in seeing the little mummies so thrilled with and proud of their babies. Proud, strutting daddy dogs thinking they rule the world. Seeing little pups grow into nice dogs that I can be proud of as a breeder; each one special, unique, never to be repeated, and loved for his own little self for the short time he is here. Seeing gentle adult dogs playing with babies in the garden, running, jumping, chasing - then falling in an untidy heap - instantly asleep.

The profits are in the diversity, yet the similarity in the breed, the profits are in calling one of the 4th generation home bred, and realising I have the wong dog - because my dogs are now a line, and resemble each other.

Those little insensate hairy newborn blobs turning into real dogs, barking, running, playing, going cheerfully off to new homes with never a backward glance, as I wipe away whatever it is that got in my eye.

The profits are in the photos and letters I get back from puppy buyers, sometimes for years, sometimes for the life of the dog. The profits are in sorting out any problems so the dog has a lifetime home.

The profits are in encountering a new problem - veterinary, training, whatever - and finding the solution, and learning more so I can be a better breeder from the experience.

The profits are in studying the bloodllines and the type in my yard, and scheming and plotting and planning how to improve them - and doing more research.

The profits are in good friends, always ready with good advice, or an understanding shoulder. Who else but a breeder would understand the grief that losing a day old pup brings? Or a stillborn? Or an eagerly awaited preganacy which doesn't evenuate. Or losing an oldie - your "regular" friends say "it's only a dog, and an old one at that", but your breeder friends understand you have lost your friend, your easy companion who never needed calling, because she knew where to be when, never needed a hard word, because she understood how things worked as well as you did - the great-grandmother of the pup which is winning for someone; or the grandmother of some little kid's nice pet; they understand you have lost part of your history, and they grieve with you.

The profits are in the ones you keep, the pleausre in training them, in having them, in enjoying them, in seeing them as good canine citizens, growing old in easy companionship, lying by your feet.

The profits are in seeing a beautiful dog - whether mine or not - which fills my eye, and gives me pleasure, just by existimg, and being his own individual, special doggy person.

Those are the profits for me. I don't know whether I make monetary profit or not, and I don't care - as long as there is enough for our needs, I am happy.

If you make some money, why not? You certainly wont keep breeding if you are going bankrupt, and then the puppy farms will be able to sell more pups. And if enough breeders go bankrupt, the gene pool will be so reduced, it will be impossible to buy a healthy registered pup.

and that's a bad thing."

I defy any breeder to put it into better words than these.

[centitout]

What ever.

As I said, different strokes for different folks.

However, what you claim about pre the limited register is just not true.

Even if the breeder did register the entire litter, they would simply not issue the papers for those puppies sold ''without papers''.

Only the naive would believe breeders would continue to breed at a loss, everytime, out of the goodness of their hearts to supply people they generally don't even know with a valuable animal they have strived so hard to achieve perfection with. That does not compute I'm sorry.

Only three decades? - I've have you by that & half that again.

But I am curious about which breed & what is general price asked, that would require 50-60 puppies from one bitch to make a profit. The general rule of thumb is, sans complications, two puppies will break you even. One covers the stud the other covers the vet & registrations. What's an average litter? - four?- eight even? six maybe? yes? - no? there has to be a profit there somewhere - in most cases.

I lost a little on my last litter. A 3a.m c section with complications saw loss of puppies with only three survivors. one paid the vet, i kept one & the other almost, but not quite, covered the vaccs & micro chipping - then i had to outlay for the registrations . It was a loss, but not substantial. & my first btw - the c section at that hour did the damage.

I know people who have had dreadful tragedies with litters & lost everything. But that is the exception, not the rule.

P.C. is all well & good. But does it reflect reality? Generally, no. I.M.O.

Collection of semen-$500+petrol and 2 days off work

semen implantation for 2 bitches =1400 + 3 days off travel backwards and forwards

sunday night c-section for one-loss of 1 pups=$1000 for c-section,8 pups alive that developed severe infection due to dead pup,lost 4 ($5600+$300 in vet bills for deceased pups)

other bitch -post whelping x-ray/abs-$250

I pup mauled by other bitch at 6 weeks-loss of $1400+$600 in vet bills trying to save it.

vaccination,m/c for 16 pups =$1040

feed bill for both litters over 8 weeks($150 per week by 5 weeks just for pups)$800

extra electricity fo rheat lamps-$450

travel 300 kms by 4 to deliver pups to airport+petrol

registrations-$300+

puppy packs by 10=$100

worming etc-$120

kept 2 pups to run on=$3000 in no sale

1 pup sent off on payment scheme(paid for 6 mths later)

the $2000 profit i sort of had went on another stud

The above doesnt include all misc. expenses,more time off work,3 days in sydney to send one to NZ,

nor does it include health testing fo r 3 dogs over the next year,or the 8 desexing rebates($250-300 each).

So it looks like i do it for the love of it,cause i dont make any significant profit.

I dont have a problem with breeders that do,they are entitled to it though.So please dont say all breeders make a profit.

[Bilbo Baggins]

What ever.

As I said, different strokes for different folks.

However, what you claim about pre the limited register is just not true.

Even if the breeder did register the entire litter, they would simply not issue the papers for those puppies sold ''without papers''.

Only the naive would believe breeders would continue to breed at a loss, everytime, out of the goodness of their hearts to supply people they generally don't even know with a valuable animal they have strived so hard to achieve perfection with. That does not compute I'm sorry.

Only three decades? - I've have you by that & half that again.

But I am curious about which breed & what is general price asked, that would require 50-60 puppies from one bitch to make a profit. The general rule of thumb is, sans complications, two puppies will break you even. One covers the stud the other covers the vet & registrations. What's an average litter? - four?- eight even? six maybe? yes? - no? there has to be a profit there somewhere - in most cases.

I lost a little on my last litter. A 3a.m c section with complications saw loss of puppies with only three survivors. one paid the vet, i kept one & the other almost, but not quite, covered the vaccs & micro chipping - then i had to outlay for the registrations . It was a loss, but not substantial. & my first btw - the c section at that hour did the damage.

I know people who have had dreadful tragedies with litters & lost everything. But that is the exception, not the rule.

P.C. is all well & good. But does it reflect reality? Generally, no. I.M.O.

Collection of semen-$500+petrol and 2 days off work

semen implantation for 2 bitches =1400 + 3 days off travel backwards and forwards

sunday night c-section for one-loss of 1 pups=$1000 for c-section,8 pups alive that developed severe infection due to dead pup,lost 4 ($5600+$300 in vet bills for deceased pups)

other bitch -post whelping x-ray/abs-$250

I pup mauled by other bitch at 6 weeks-loss of $1400+$600 in vet bills trying to save it.

vaccination,m/c for 16 pups =$1040

feed bill for both litters over 8 weeks($150 per week by 5 weeks just for pups)$800

extra electricity fo rheat lamps-$450

travel 300 kms by 4 to deliver pups to airport+petrol

registrations-$300+

puppy packs by 10=$100

worming etc-$120

kept 2 pups to run on=$3000 in no sale

1 pup sent off on payment scheme(paid for 6 mths later)

the $2000 profit i sort of had went on another stud

The above doesnt include all misc. expenses,more time off work,3 days in sydney to send one to NZ,

nor does it include health testing fo r 3 dogs over the next year,or the 8 desexing rebates($250-300 each).

So it looks like i do it for the love of it,cause i dont make any significant profit.

I dont have a problem with breeders that do,they are entitled to it though.So please dont say all breeders make a profit.

Centitout you missed one thing, I think you resigned coz it was too difficult to work and raise the pups.

[puglvr]

Yes you may make a profit from a litter but if you are like me any money from puppies goes back into the dog's cheque book. This money is used to pay all the dog expenses such as council reg, VCA and club renewals, show entries, dog items such as crates, bedding, leads ect and anything else the need. Not to mention new books to continue building my knowledge and the biggest expense Vet bills - and these include the bills for Gr Gr Gr Grandma and the other older retired dogs, whose bloodlines course through those little wriggling bodies that have just gone to the knew homes.

[Christina]

What ever.

As I said, different strokes for different folks.

Only the naive would believe breeders would continue to breed at a loss, everytime, out of the goodness of their hearts to supply people they generally don't even know with a valuable animal they have strived so hard to achieve perfection with. That does not compute I'm sorry.

The general rule of thumb is, sans complications, two puppies will break you even. One covers the stud the other covers the vet & registrations. What's an average litter? - four?- eight even? six maybe? yes? - no? there has to be a profit there somewhere - in most cases.

Depends on the breed. Try 1 to a maximum of 4 puppies, if lucky.

Calculating the purchase price & upkeep of bitch & stud, PRA tests, vet checks, 1 litter a year for only a few times, vet check & dew claw removal for puppies, vaccs, microchip, desexing for mine, $80 petrol for vet visits + more for taking them out socialising, the extra special food, laundry, heating, cooling, grooming, phone calls, extra vet visits if there is the slightest worry, registrations, I doubt 2 puppies break even.

The amount spent on other things & requirements when not breeding is considerable too unless one wants to give minimum care & quality of life for your dogs.

Maybe on a large breed that has big litters & is hardy it is possible but on toy breeds unless the male is studded out for $'s please tell me how to make a profit & I will dream about it all.

Sorry but your post is a bit silly IMO.

[lappiemum]

I beleive this post by Jed says it all.

QUOTE

"From time to time the question arises of whether breeders make a profit or not. Who cares? Obviously someone does, or they wouldn't ask. Why? I have no idea. Is it wrong to make a profit? Is it right?

I never respond from a personal point of view. I have no idea whether I make a profit or not. I care for the dogs, spend whatever needs to be spent, and sell the pups for the average price. Sometimes things don't go well, and it costs more than I get back. Sometimes the income from the pups is more than the cost of getting them. That's life.

I don't keep records of income and expenditure. If I wanted to know, I would probably work it out, and I would probably find that over a year I was covering the costs. I don't worry too much about it. The profits are not in the money in the bank.

But there are huge profits, for me, from keeping and breeding dogs.

The profits are in seeing happy, glossy dogs playing in the garden, waggy tails and wide smiles when I come home from work. In constant smiling companionship. The pleasure of grooming them, or stroking them, or playing with them. They don't care what's on TV, they never complain if I am home late, they never fret or sulk if I don't have as much time tonight as I had last night. That confiding little nose pushed under my arm at night, that little body curled at my feet.

The profts are in seeing the little mummies so thrilled with and proud of their babies. Proud, strutting daddy dogs thinking they rule the world. Seeing little pups grow into nice dogs that I can be proud of as a breeder; each one special, unique, never to be repeated, and loved for his own little self for the short time he is here. Seeing gentle adult dogs playing with babies in the garden, running, jumping, chasing - then falling in an untidy heap - instantly asleep.

The profits are in the diversity, yet the similarity in the breed, the profits are in calling one of the 4th generation home bred, and realising I have the wong dog - because my dogs are now a line, and resemble each other.

Those little insensate hairy newborn blobs turning into real dogs, barking, running, playing, going cheerfully off to new homes with never a backward glance, as I wipe away whatever it is that got in my eye.

The profits are in the photos and letters I get back from puppy buyers, sometimes for years, sometimes for the life of the dog. The profits are in sorting out any problems so the dog has a lifetime home.

The profits are in encountering a new problem - veterinary, training, whatever - and finding the solution, and learning more so I can be a better breeder from the experience.

The profits are in studying the bloodllines and the type in my yard, and scheming and plotting and planning how to improve them - and doing more research.

The profits are in good friends, always ready with good advice, or an understanding shoulder. Who else but a breeder would understand the grief that losing a day old pup brings? Or a stillborn? Or an eagerly awaited preganacy which doesn't evenuate. Or losing an oldie - your "regular" friends say "it's only a dog, and an old one at that", but your breeder friends understand you have lost your friend, your easy companion who never needed calling, because she knew where to be when, never needed a hard word, because she understood how things worked as well as you did - the great-grandmother of the pup which is winning for someone; or the grandmother of some little kid's nice pet; they understand you have lost part of your history, and they grieve with you.

The profits are in the ones you keep, the pleausre in training them, in having them, in enjoying them, in seeing them as good canine citizens, growing old in easy companionship, lying by your feet.

The profits are in seeing a beautiful dog - whether mine or not - which fills my eye, and gives me pleasure, just by existimg, and being his own individual, special doggy person.

Those are the profits for me. I don't know whether I make monetary profit or not, and I don't care - as long as there is enough for our needs, I am happy.

If you make some money, why not? You certainly wont keep breeding if you are going bankrupt, and then the puppy farms will be able to sell more pups. And if enough breeders go bankrupt, the gene pool will be so reduced, it will be impossible to buy a healthy registered pup.

and that's a bad thing."

Happy now. Wish you were here Jed.

[Libertybrook]

So very well said Jed :p

we just had our first litter in 4.5 years, some were sold on the limited register some on the main, all were the same price,

the ones on limited register all went to lovely families who didnt want to show, and some were going to do dog sports etc

the main register ones went to performance homes one's retained here to show,

I charged the average going price for BC puppies, there were 8.

less one for Stud fee,

less one for a gift to a friend,

less one for feeding/worming for 9/10 weeks,

less one for vaccinations, Microchipping, travelling costs to take bitch to stud dog,

two days off work, motel accomodation,

Less two we are keeping here to show,

so 6 out of the 8 didnt bring us any re-coup costs, the other 2 would barely cover the puppy packs and other misc. costs,

so why do we do it? to breed a new generation, to have something hopefully good enough to show/ compete with breed from down the track etc,

and the absolute joy I get, and I am a chest puffingly proud Grandma, when one of my babies does well in the ring/performance sports etc,

or I get photos from people who have a wonderful dog that they love to bits.

obviously not for the money.......

Edited May 15, 2010 by Libertybrook

[ophnbark]

Beautifully said by Jed, couldn't agree more.

Our usual litter size is 4 pups, do we make a profit? Not likely!!!

[Mystiqview]

It costs the same to raise a coloured puppy to a black/white puppy.

It costs the same to raise a main registered pup and a limit registered pup

It costs the same to raise a male pup and a female pup.

Why charge more for any of the above? To me, it is only profiteering. If you feel comfortable doing it, then go for it. If your morals prevent you charging more for a fad, then you should stick to those..

How many so called registered ethical breeders condemn the colour breeders, those whose charge more for male/female or those who charge more for main/limit, only to do it themselves??

[Wazzat Xolo]

It costs the same to raise a coloured puppy to a black/white puppy.

It costs the same to raise a main registered pup and a limit registered pup

It costs the same to raise a male pup and a female pup.

Why charge more for any of the above? To me, it is only profiteering. If you feel comfortable doing it, then go for it. If your morals prevent you charging more for a fad, then you should stick to those..

How many so called registered ethical breeders condemn the colour breeders, those whose charge more for male/female or those who charge more for main/limit, only to do it themselves??

I do know a breeder ( overseas) who actually doesnt want certain kennels to have their lines, they do put ridiculous prices on some dogs so they cannot get their lines.

Having said that there are certain people I would not sell a dog to and would put a ridiculous price on them, and I personally like coownership arrangements.

:D

[Mystiqview]

Wazzat.

There are certain people who I will not let the lines go to either. There are some I would not sell a pet rock to. Mainly acknowledgement/respect of breeder/stud dog requests. I just don't sell to those. I am not about to shit in my own nest either so to speak.

I won't put ridiculous prices on the pups. They are just not available. I would rather give away a puppy to a loving home than sell it for thousands to a bad home. I charge same for co-own Main to limit register. I am still small time so 99% of my pups are pet anyway on Limit. Much as I prefer. I much prefer a loving pet home to some breeder homes where they are only in it to win it and it doesn't win then it is moved on or dumped in a back yard and only used as a uterus breeding factory.

I am still trying to establish something to my eyes and the whole "worthwhile". Not everyone started with the creme de la creme. Some have to try and improve on what they started with.

I don't proclaim my dogs are things they are not.

[BJean]

It costs the same to raise a coloured puppy to a black/white puppy.

It costs the same to raise a main registered pup and a limit registered pupIt costs the same to raise a male pup and a female pup.

Why charge more for any of the above? To me, it is only profiteering. If you feel comfortable doing it, then go for it. If your morals prevent you charging more for a fad, then you should stick to those..

How many so called registered ethical breeders condemn the colour breeders, those whose charge more for male/female or those who charge more for main/limit, only to do it themselves??

You expect to pay the same price for a breed potential imported lineage pup on main registry,

or a pup from a renowned kennel esteemed for producing consistent trademark type,

for the same price as their pet limited-reg counterparts?

If not, it is profiteering and all about morals?

Hmm thats an interesting perpective, I'm thinking of a few kennels whom I now might just ask for a discount based on that ethos ... see what puppy I end up with

the cheek of me wanting their bloodlines and the years of their expertise and trained eye, to benefit my learning and my dogs

but I dont want to pay for it

uh-huh

bcz if they were breeders with morals, they would sell me their standout pup representing their breeding effort

for the same price as a pet ...

???

With Main reg you are not only buying a dog, you are buying its pedigree, and you expect that pedigree to also benefit the future breeding and standing of your own dogs, else you would not seek it.

Edited May 15, 2010 by lilli

[Wazzat Xolo]

Sorry Mystiqview I didnt mean to come across at you or anyone for that matter, just my 2 bobs bit !

I wasnt aiming at anyone in this thread, it was just something I do, and everyone should as you say be aiming to improve on what they have started with, I know and hope I can.

:D

Wazzat.

There are certain people who I will not let the lines go to either. There are some I would not sell a pet rock to. Mainly acknowledgement/respect of breeder/stud dog requests. I just don't sell to those. I am not about to shit in my own nest either so to speak.

I won't put ridiculous prices on the pups. They are just not available. I would rather give away a puppy to a loving home than sell it for thousands to a bad home. I charge same for co-own Main to limit register. I am still small time so 99% of my pups are pet anyway on Limit. Much as I prefer. I much prefer a loving pet home to some breeder homes where they are only in it to win it and it doesn't win then it is moved on or dumped in a back yard and only used as a uterus breeding factory.

I am still trying to establish something to my eyes and the whole "worthwhile". Not everyone started with the creme de la creme. Some have to try and improve on what they started with.

I don't proclaim my dogs are things they are not.

[dancinbcs]

With Main reg you are not only buying a dog, you are buying its pedigree, and you expect that pedigree to also benefit the future breeding and standing of your own dogs, else you would not seek it.

You have a point when you are talking about a rare breed that is mostly from imports. In this case all your puppies should be more expensive to cover some of your costs but obviously pet buyers will only pay so much. Therefore I imagine you have to set a more reasonable pet price and try to compensate by charging a premium for breeding stock being sought by others. Fair enough. If others want to benefit from your imports they should have to pay for them.

For those of us with common breeds where the bloodlines are pretty much the same if you go back 5 or 6 generations there can be no real justification for charging higher main register prices. Mystiqview, Libertybrook and I all have Border Collies so our perspective is different to yours. Australian Borders are exported to the world who all look to us for foundation stock. Imports are extremely rare and usually not sought after because they usually don't measure up to what we already have. Also showing Borders is extremely competitive and it is almost impossible to encourage any new exhibitors, so the last thing we want to do is discourage anyone from trying by charging them a higher price for a puppy with show potential. There are so few show homes available for the many show quality puppies produced that breeders will often place a promising puppy at no charge in an established show home in order to get it in the ring. Having puppies with our prefix succeed is the main objective. If others then benefit from breeding from them so much the better. We don't have people jealously guarding bloodlines because the lines are all mixed up anyway.

[Wazzat Xolo]

With Main reg you are not only buying a dog, you are buying its pedigree, and you expect that pedigree to also benefit the future breeding and standing of your own dogs, else you would not seek it.

You have a point when you are talking about a rare breed that is mostly from imports. In this case all your puppies should be more expensive to cover some of your costs but obviously pet buyers will only pay so much. Therefore I imagine you have to set a more reasonable pet price and try to compensate by charging a premium for breeding stock being sought by others. Fair enough. If others want to benefit from your imports they should have to pay for them.

For those of us with common breeds where the bloodlines are pretty much the same if you go back 5 or 6 generations there can be no real justification for charging higher main register prices. Mystiqview, Libertybrook and I all have Border Collies so our perspective is different to yours. Australian Borders are exported to the world who all look to us for foundation stock. Imports are extremely rare and usually not sought after because they usually don't measure up to what we already have. Also showing Borders is extremely competitive and it is almost impossible to encourage any new exhibitors, so the last thing we want to do is discourage anyone from trying by charging them a higher price for a puppy with show potential. There are so few show homes available for the many show quality puppies produced that breeders will often place a promising puppy at no charge in an established show home in order to get it in the ring. Having puppies with our prefix succeed is the main objective. If others then benefit from breeding from them so much the better. We don't have people jealously guarding bloodlines because the lines are all mixed up anyway.

IMHO "Protecting" Bloodlines is how I see it not a jealousy thing. So they dont get all mxed up

[lappiemum]

It costs the same to raise a coloured puppy to a black/white puppy.

It costs the same to raise a main registered pup and a limit registered pupIt costs the same to raise a male pup and a female pup.

Why charge more for any of the above? To me, it is only profiteering. If you feel comfortable doing it, then go for it. If your morals prevent you charging more for a fad, then you should stick to those..

How many so called registered ethical breeders condemn the colour breeders, those whose charge more for male/female or those who charge more for main/limit, only to do it themselves??

You expect to pay the same price for a breed potential imported lineage pup on main registry,

or a pup from a renowned kennel esteemed for producing consistent trademark type,

for the same price as their pet limited-reg counterparts?

If not, it is profiteering and all about morals?

Hmm thats an interesting perpective, I'm thinking of a few kennels whom I now might just ask for a discount based on that ethos ... see what puppy I end up with

the cheek of me wanting their bloodlines and the years of their expertise and trained eye, to benefit my learning and my dogs

but I dont want to pay for it

uh-huh

bcz if they were breeders with morals, they would sell me their standout pup representing their breeding effort

for the same price as a pet ...

???

With Main reg you are not only buying a dog, you are buying its pedigree, and you expect that pedigree to also benefit the future breeding and standing of your own dogs, else you would not seek it.

One small point; price is not always in indicator of quality.

[Stolzseinrotts]

One small point; price is not always in indicator of quality.

Ain't that the truth.

I have seen some very expensive pups in my breed that really were not IMO quality pups and these were on main register.

[BJean]

With Main reg you are not only buying a dog, you are buying its pedigree, and you expect that pedigree to also benefit the future breeding and standing of your own dogs, else you would not seek it.

You have a point when you are talking about a rare breed that is mostly from imports. In this case all your puppies should be more expensive to cover some of your costs but obviously pet buyers will only pay so much. Therefore I imagine you have to set a more reasonable pet price and try to compensate by charging a premium for breeding stock being sought by others. Fair enough. If others want to benefit from your imports they should have to pay for them.

For those of us with common breeds where the bloodlines are pretty much the same if you go back 5 or 6 generations there can be no real justification for charging higher main register prices. Mystiqview, Libertybrook and I all have Border Collies so our perspective is different to yours. Australian Borders are exported to the world who all look to us for foundation stock. Imports are extremely rare and usually not sought after because they usually don't measure up to what we already have. Also showing Borders is extremely competitive and it is almost impossible to encourage any new exhibitors, so the last thing we want to do is discourage anyone from trying by charging them a higher price for a puppy with show potential. There are so few show homes available for the many show quality puppies produced that breeders will often place a promising puppy at no charge in an established show home in order to get it in the ring. Having puppies with our prefix succeed is the main objective. If others then benefit from breeding from them so much the better. We don't have people jealously guarding bloodlines because the lines are all mixed up anyway.

Ah yes okay I see

from my perspective, the dogs that have created history or set the foundation for the breed are outside of Australia, ie: Russia, Belorus, Turmenistan, Ukraine etc

so for breeders in other countries, imports from renowned kennels/lineages in these countries are valued.

(I wasn't just talking of my puppies

I was thinking of excellent breeders o/s whose consistency and type I might aspire to.)

One small point; price is not always in indicator of quality.

of course, lesson 101 in dog breeding/procurring

but from what I know you can't go looking for excellent examples of dogs and expect to go bargain hunting. You might find the dog you like at a bargain basement price, but it will cost you a lot more to bring that dog to Aust.

Perhaps what is also relevant is the average cost / complication / time / assocated risks to import.

An import from Turkmenistan / Ukraine / Belorus etc is difficult to do and takes at least 12 months. Its not just the cost, it's the investment of time and the logistics involved.

Probably why I take umbrage to the slapstick label of profiteering.

If English is your first language or you dont know the country where your dog is from intimately, you're risking thousands until the dog is actually boarded on the bus/car/train and on its way.

So when you benefit from a quality pup from such an import, it's not just the numerical figure that was outlayed, it's everything that was put on the line to export them from their country of origin - and the risk the importer incurred, that the financial investment made might not eventuate / exist or disappear.

Edited May 16, 2010 by lilli

[Mystiqview]

Lilli,

I think Dancinbcs have probably summed up where I am coming from re "profiteering". We do have a popular breed and prices across the board are fairly standard.

There are those in our breed who will charge more for a colour, not because it is is better, but just because they can get a higher price for a merle, chocolate or other "rare" colour as they advertise. In this case, it is profiteering.

My opinions are based upon my own breed and not the situations around rare breeds. If you do have to import from OS then of course those costs should and need to be factored in.

Again as Dancinbcs has pointed out in our breed. There is a ready supply of puppies from show or performance homes. The bloodlines are fairly similar in some way or another. As she said, they all pretty go back to a few main bloodlines anyway depending on which "style" suits "you" better.

There are those in my breed who charge more for male/female, even if they are both limit register. Likewise for two pups on main reg. I have no problems paying for quality. It is the trend in my breed of charging stupidly high prices just for a fad that gets me.

Wazzat: nothing directed at you personally. I think I was just addressing something you commented on. Giving another look from a common breed perspective.

Sorry if my comments were taken the wrong way. Not intended to you or Lilli.

[Wazzat Xolo]

Lilli,

I think Dancinbcs have probably summed up where I am coming from re "profiteering". We do have a popular breed and prices across the board are fairly standard.

There are those in our breed who will charge more for a colour, not because it is is better, but just because they can get a higher price for a merle, chocolate or other "rare" colour as they advertise. In this case, it is profiteering.

My opinions are based upon my own breed and not the situations around rare breeds. If you do have to import from OS then of course those costs should and need to be factored in.

Again as Dancinbcs has pointed out in our breed. There is a ready supply of puppies from show or performance homes. The bloodlines are fairly similar in some way or another. As she said, they all pretty go back to a few main bloodlines anyway depending on which "style" suits "you" better.

There are those in my breed who charge more for male/female, even if they are both limit register. Likewise for two pups on main reg. I have no problems paying for quality. It is the trend in my breed of charging stupidly high prices just for a fad that gets me.

Wazzat: nothing directed at you personally. I think I was just addressing something you commented on. Giving another look from a common breed perspective.

Sorry if my comments were taken the wrong way. Not intended to you or Lilli.

Thats ok Mystiqview I have had a barrage of "bloody idiots" emailing me lately re my breed and I guess its made me a bit short! lol

Where on earth do all these nutters come from ? They cant ALL be from the Dog world surely! ll!!l