How Many Of Us Thunder Scared Dogs

[mantis]

McConnell isn't just one dog owner who has written a book. She has a doctorate in ethology. She studied human verbal communication towards domestic animals. She also practised as a behaviour consultant for many years. CM is just one dog owner who has written a book, I'm afraid.

This is kind of complicated stuff, but the thing is you can't reinforce emotions. You reinforce behaviours. So it's possible for attention to result in something that looks like reinforcing fear and I'm not questioning what folks have experienced. But it's really not that simple. Behaviour can influence emotion and emotion can influence behaviour but they are not the same thing. When you reinforce a behaviour (or punish one) you are not automatically also reinforcing or punishing the emotion that drives the behaviour. And that is all assuming that the dog is in control of that behaviour in the first place. If they are just reacting they can't learn anything from reinforcement. This is why counter-conditioning works to decrease aggression towards something, for example. You can reward a dog WHILE they are being aggressive (if they'll accept the reward) and actually see a decrease in the aggression over time. The dog associates the trigger with rewards and so it no longer triggers an aggressive response. Steven Lindsay was talking about this when he was in Sydney as well.

How can you be telling the dog it's okay to be scared and run to their owner to stop the bad noise if the bad noise does not actually stop?

WOW she has a degree, sorry but I prefer people who have knowledge from owning dogs like Cesar Milan. People saying but I have a piece of paper means nothiing to me, it's people who have grown up around dogs & learned their behaviours who I feel are more educated.

[bedazzledx2]

Not everyone is a diciple of CM

McConnell isn't just one dog owner who has written a book. She has a doctorate in ethology. She studied human verbal communication towards domestic animals. She also practised as a behaviour consultant for many years. CM is just one dog owner who has written a book, I'm afraid.

This is kind of complicated stuff, but the thing is you can't reinforce emotions. You reinforce behaviours. So it's possible for attention to result in something that looks like reinforcing fear and I'm not questioning what folks have experienced. But it's really not that simple. Behaviour can influence emotion and emotion can influence behaviour but they are not the same thing. When you reinforce a behaviour (or punish one) you are not automatically also reinforcing or punishing the emotion that drives the behaviour. And that is all assuming that the dog is in control of that behaviour in the first place. If they are just reacting they can't learn anything from reinforcement. This is why counter-conditioning works to decrease aggression towards something, for example. You can reward a dog WHILE they are being aggressive (if they'll accept the reward) and actually see a decrease in the aggression over time. The dog associates the trigger with rewards and so it no longer triggers an aggressive response. Steven Lindsay was talking about this when he was in Sydney as well.

How can you be telling the dog it's okay to be scared and run to their owner to stop the bad noise if the bad noise does not actually stop?

WOW she has a degree, sorry but I prefer people who have knowledge from owning dogs like Cesar Milan. People saying but I have a piece of paper means nothiing to me, it's people who have grown up around dogs & learned their behaviours who I feel are more educated.

[mantis]

Not everyone is a diciple of CM

McConnell isn't just one dog owner who has written a book. She has a doctorate in ethology. She studied human verbal communication towards domestic animals. She also practised as a behaviour consultant for many years. CM is just one dog owner who has written a book, I'm afraid.

This is kind of complicated stuff, but the thing is you can't reinforce emotions. You reinforce behaviours. So it's possible for attention to result in something that looks like reinforcing fear and I'm not questioning what folks have experienced. But it's really not that simple. Behaviour can influence emotion and emotion can influence behaviour but they are not the same thing. When you reinforce a behaviour (or punish one) you are not automatically also reinforcing or punishing the emotion that drives the behaviour. And that is all assuming that the dog is in control of that behaviour in the first place. If they are just reacting they can't learn anything from reinforcement. This is why counter-conditioning works to decrease aggression towards something, for example. You can reward a dog WHILE they are being aggressive (if they'll accept the reward) and actually see a decrease in the aggression over time. The dog associates the trigger with rewards and so it no longer triggers an aggressive response. Steven Lindsay was talking about this when he was in Sydney as well.

How can you be telling the dog it's okay to be scared and run to their owner to stop the bad noise if the bad noise does not actually stop?

WOW she has a degree, sorry but I prefer people who have knowledge from owning dogs like Cesar Milan. People saying but I have a piece of paper means nothiing to me, it's people who have grown up around dogs & learned their behaviours who I feel are more educated.

Maybe not, but he got his skills ftom living with dogs, not going to Uni earning a piece of paper.

[Kirty]

My in-laws dog (RIP) was terrified of storms. He would often run away during a storm and take cover in someone's front yard! The funny thing was, they would all baby him and cuddle him and make a big fuss. Gazza and I did not see eye to eye, so if he tried to get attention from me during a storm, I'd tell him to cut it out and make him do a sit, etc. From then on, whenever there was a storm, he would actively seek me out! I think he felt safer around me because I was 'so brave'. LOL!

[Cosmolo]

What Corvus said The dog is not learning at that point if the fear is that strong anyway and there is a difference between confidently and calmly letting a dog know things are normal and okay, versus mollycoddling and behaving abnormally- which increases the fear not through reinforcement but through the strange change in owner behaviour.

Encouraging a dog to train, play etc amonst other things during storms can be very helpful but extreme phobia usually requires management rather than complete resolution.

[Sheridan]

Maybe not, but he got his skills ftom living with dogs, not going to Uni earning a piece of paper.

If your dog was sick, would you take it to Cesar Milan or a vet?

[mantis]

Maybe not, but he got his skills ftom living with dogs, not going to Uni earning a piece of paper.

If your dog was sick, would you take it to Cesar Milan or a vet?

Totally different scenarios. we are talking about behaviour not illness.

Edited May 13, 2010 by mantis

[Guest RosieFT]

The first few rumbles of thunder were ok. Rosie went out to bark at it, then came back in and was ok. Then we had THE most almighty clap of thunder over our house that rattled our windows - it was incredibly loud. loudedst i have ever heard, felt like it was right on top of us. Rosie went back outside but was doing laps with her tail down so i called her in and crated her right next to our bed and she was fine. Not uber relaxed, but quiet and dozing.

[Shmurps]

Our dog just completely shuts down. I have also tried everything. Ignoring, which we still do, rescue remedy, calm, distraction and wrapping her in a tight towel(which works sometimes. Like comolo says when it's extreme you have to manage it. The DVD can work in reverse if not done properly and some drugs can also work in reverse. Drugs that calm the body but not the mind can make the dog more stressed. So if she wants to be close to us we just let her and go on as normal. If she jumps into bed with us and hides under the pillow during the night, shakes and pant we let her. We don't pat her just let her be.

[corvus]

WOW she has a degree, sorry but I prefer people who have knowledge from owning dogs like Cesar Milan. People saying but I have a piece of paper means nothiing to me, it's people who have grown up around dogs & learned their behaviours who I feel are more educated.

I think you would find she has the piece(s) of paper AND has grown up around dogs and learned their behaviours. Which would, sorry to say, make her undeniably more educated than Mr Milan.

I can only say what I believe, and that happens to be what scientists believe. The reason why I believe scientists over a man with a lifetime experience with dogs is that science is formally tested and peer-reviewed. There's still a lot of work to be done unravelling emotion and behaviour, but learning theory deliberately excludes emotion. Mostly because no one knew how to measure it. Or if it existed at all.

When it comes down to it, everyone is free to believe what seems true to them. If you don't like the science because it doesn't gel with your world view, then that's your prerogative. I hope it continues to serve you well.

[Sheridan]

Maybe not, but he got his skills ftom living with dogs, not going to Uni earning a piece of paper.

If your dog was sick, would you take it to Cesar Milan or a vet?

Totally different scenarios. we are talking about behaviour not illness.

No, it isn't.

[griff]

Ryan knows when the wind , rain or storms are coming

he gets a little unsettled and walk from room to room .

When it hits , he will just lay down on one of the dog beds or my bed

we DO NOT pat or talk to him during any of the above.

[mantis]

Maybe not, but he got his skills ftom living with dogs, not going to Uni earning a piece of paper.

If your dog was sick, would you take it to Cesar Milan or a vet?

Totally different scenarios. we are talking about behaviour not illness.

No, it isn't.

Yes it is, because all Vets treat animal injuries & sicknesses the same way, dog behavouralists have very differing methods on treatment. Bark Busters have pieces of paper & they are totally useless, I prefer someone who has lived with dogs & understands them, than some numbnut who does a three month course. :p

Edited May 14, 2010 by mantis

[Elsha_UK_AU]

It thundered here just after 4am the other morning just after we'd taken our two out for a potty break. They came up on the bed with us and the puppy whined each time it thunders but soon fell asleep wedged between my husband and me

Susan

[indigirl]

My golden is a basketcase during storms. Living in the outback means she can hear a storm from miles away. I now have a routine. If she starts freaking out I get up and put her anxiety wrap on her then lock her in her crate. I only speak to her in a very hushed voice and i say very little. Then i leave her and go back to bed. If she barks like a lunatic i ignore her, and dont say a word. Ive found this is the best way to settle her, If the storm is bad i put a blanket over her crate. I always make sure she has plenty of water too as she pants heaps due to stress.

She knows this routine now and usually settles quickly - unless the storm is overhead, But luckily we have very few storms, one of the advantages of living in an arid area!