Partipaws Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 (edited) Hello all, I had a litter of 3 parti coloured pups back in December! I had a lot of interest from people including other breeders. I kept one boy for show - the other two were sold on limited register which I had explained to the owners they were pets to be desexed and not bred etc - I did not do a contract as upon researching into doing one a lot of people said they were not worth the paper they were written on. I was also looking into early desexing but had not found a vet at that time to perform the op before hand. Both owners were looking for pets, they were not interested in showing or breeding and they understood what LR was after I had explained it all and were quite happy with that. I have been given some information that a not so good breeder is trying to get access to one of the boys - I know she can't legally register the pups - but knowing this person she will use another sire's name for the litter to be registered or register the pups in with another litter - she has been suspected of doing this many times before not to mention using other peoples studs without them knowing. She has been kicked out of the pom club and she has had numerous complaints made aggainst her etc - but still gets away with it - Even her parti lines are a little odd - well marked parti with not one parti in its pedigree for 8 or so generations back??? Now I will be contacting the owners and will openly discuss my concerns - Can anyone give me some advise of what to say or how to convince them against keeping the boy entire and allowing another registered breeder the use of him??? I know this breeder has sold them a parti girl from questionable pedigree (pap x) but these people were quite stunned at how much I charged for a pup $1,200 yet the parti girl was being advertised for $2,000 so my thoughts are the breeder has sold them her cheaper so that she can get something out of it in return - I know I am assuming - but wouldn't surprise me! Originally the owners were all fore desexing - but I think this breeder can be very convincing, so I need some good arguments to convince them against this. Thank you in advance. Edited May 12, 2010 by Partipaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 (edited) Offer to pay for the desexing? ETA: speak to them and enquire when he will be desexed and suggest it be done sooner rather than later (they certainly old enough to be done now)! Edited May 12, 2010 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 ...and although it might not be worth the paper it's written on - get EVERYTHING in writing in future!!! AT least then, they would have had a piece of paper that you both signed stating the dog is a pet only, must not be bred from and must be desexed by a certain age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I like the offer of desexing, that might do the trick..but are you close enough with the buyer to express these concerns directly with them? I mean if they knew they would be party to a fraudulent litter, with falsified documents, they may think twice before letting their dog be used in such a manner. What kind of reprocussions does the Australian KC have when it comes to falisfying documents such as registering a litter falsely? Well the horse is out of the barn as far as a contract goes, but I would still use one, the puppy owners can always use it as a reference and there is more than just her/his word against yours...it may be that is all it takes, is the threat of enforcing that contract to get them to tow the line so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partipaws Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 Hello Aziah and lynai! Thank you for your help and advice! I know now I should have written a contract! I really thought I have found some trustworthy pet homes - This was my first litter and I am only 25 years old so as far as having all this knowledge with law and contracts - well yes I just don't - lol I guess you learn from your mistakes - I will from now on sell pets either desexed before leaving or with a written contract. Just unfortunate it has come to this with my very first litter I do like the idea of offering to pay for the desexing - at least you know 100% it has been done and you are not receiving a false receipt of desexing from the family vet! Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 You don't know for sure though that the pet owners are going to be sucked in... Call them tonight, speak to them and offer to pay for his desexing at the earliest possible convenience (next week)!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 If she uses a limited register dog, the puppies cannot be registered with the canine authority and she is essentially a backyard breeder. If she uses another dog's name on the pedigree and tries to register the litter, its fraud. Not to mention in violation of several rules of the canine authority. Have a chat to the owners, see if they can see whats reasonable and ethical, esp down the track if people are buying the puppies. However, it seems that they will be going ahead with it inform them that you will be reporting the matter to the canine authority should she try registering the litter. If its intended as an unregistered litter, you may want to express concern about these people being backyard breeders themselves, esp when none of the pre-breeding health checks etc have been done, and should there be any congenitcal defects they themselves may be held liable by the puppy buyers for not taking due care and diligence (a long shot, admittedly, but possible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lappiemum Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 (edited) gremlins Edited May 12, 2010 by lappiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doglady0419 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Why don't you report both parties to the Department of Primary Industries.....they would love to hear from you....these are the kind of people they are trying squash from breeding defects etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Because the poor bloody pet people haven't committed to the dog being used they've just been approached I gather!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Doglady0419 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Because the poor bloody pet people haven't committed to the dog being used they've just been approached I gather!!! If they've done nothing wrong then they won't have anything to worry about will they? A warning from them might surfice..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 (edited) No but why on earth would you suggest reporting them (the puppy people that is who haven't done anything wrong, they were approached and haven't gone ahead) Weird... The OP just needs to phone them, have a brief chat and ensure the dog gets desexed, if there's a problem then she can talk to them further Edited May 12, 2010 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Offer to pay for the desexing?ETA: speak to them and enquire when he will be desexed and suggest it be done sooner rather than later (they certainly old enough to be done now)! Exactly what I was going to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 By all means contact the people, offer to pay for desexing or do what you can. Unfortunately many people don't see any harm in getting a few hundred dollars for stud, its easy cash. Add that to the fact that they have probably been flattered by being told what a good dog he is, how they have lovely homes for the puppies & how all their dogs come from good, healthy lines. I know I have just tried to talk someone out of their malamute, pet, being used, they had 3 offers of very good money. The only sure way to make sure this does not recur is to desex before they go or have a contract stating that the condition of sale is that the dog must be desexed by a specific date or you will call at their house & take the dog back & refund their money May not stand up legally, who knows, but it sounds scary enough to make them do it Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partipaws Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 Thank you all so very much! I will call them - I was going to do so anyway as I want to try and avoid this matter going further! I just wanted a few little pointers so that I "know" what I am talking about and have some valid reason for why they should not go ahead - you know some good threats like the ones that many have mentioned something to try scary them off the idea! I will dig up their contact details asap - I am generally an organised person when it comes to all my doggie stuff - but we are in the middle of moving house so you can imagine some things are not quite easy to get a hold of!!! lol - but I will be onto it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 (edited) Let us know how you go with it all Edited May 12, 2010 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted May 14, 2010 Share Posted May 14, 2010 Just wondering how you went with your puppy people? Hopefully they will take up your offer to desex their boy. If DNA parentage becomes mandatory it would alleivate the shonky 'breeders' falsifying who the stud dog is on their pedigrees. I know they are talking about it in Victoria. I have DNA profiled my boy, girl will be done at next vacc. If buying a puppy I would expect that the parentage of my puppy to be that of the pedigree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partipaws Posted May 16, 2010 Author Share Posted May 16, 2010 Thank you both for your concerns and sticky by to see how it results - We were juggling shows and moving this weekend just gone - so as you can imagine not much has really happened - I am close to getting out my dogs paperwork - so as soon as I can get my hands on the copies of change of ownership etc etc I will be able to give the owners a call... I don't want to drag this out too long - I would very much like to contact them asap to get to the bottom of everything as this is really stressing me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partipaws Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 hello all - just got off the phone from the owner of my little puppy! I politely explained the reason for my call as I wanted to voice my concerns about the breeder she is getting involved with. The owner was very honest and seems she was being led a stray and did not realise the "ins and outs" of it all - but I sat down and explained everything - that as her boy was sold as a pet on limited register that any breeder using my boy would be doing the wrong thing - I also added that as the breeders would have to register the puppies using a false sire etc that "they would be party to a fraudulent litter, with falsified documents" that Lynai kindly mentioned and this soon made the owner realise the seriousness of it all. She then appologised and mentioned she had no idea what was happening and was very naive that there were such people like this out there in the dog world! *sighs* if only they knew So over all everything seems to have gone well - I was really dreading calling her, but I am so glad I did! Luckily as someone did ask and I did not answer - yes I do live quite close to this owner and we share the same vet, so desexing will be done and I did offer to pay, but she declined and said she will send me proof of desexing once she has him done (puppy is just coming up to 6 months). My vet who is a family friend has been informed and he has kindly offered to let me know that the procedure has really taken place!!! So I will get confirmation regardless! ahhh deep sigh of releif!!! gosh all this stress and all because there are some scum out there who do not do the right thing by the purebred dog community! All I can hope is that this person gets caught out one day and looses their license!!! Thank you all once again for all the help and support - It gave me that extra bit of confidence to go ahead and raise my concerns with the owner! I have truly learnt a valuable lesson -will always have a contract of sale now when I sell my puppies - even if its not worth the paper it is written on its still a bit of paper and is better then nothing! Having said that I must get cracking on it as I might be expecting my second litter due around early July!!!! hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I am so glad it worked out for you and so many people are truly niave and get taken advantage of by unscrupulous people. It may have been difficult to initiate, but the conversation sounds as if it went as well as it could have. Yay and congrats on the upcoming litter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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