Limited Register

[Bilbo Baggins]

I believe that when you sell a pup it only has show potential, apart from obvious faults that it is a pet from the get go, if the people want to change down the track, then look at it or get a knowlegeable someone if in another state.

I feel that a lot of breeders will not give a newbiea fair go. JMO.

[Dogsfevr]

All ours go on limited to & thats only because in WA we now have to register every pup.

In my experience & with the people we deal with daily i believe those who have a limited pup are very well aware of the restrictions & the only ones i now of who have complained suddenly want to breed certainly not show.

generally those who say they werent informed where & had no intentions of showing when originally purchasing .

We are very upfront with our puppy enquirers & i think we only had 1 who came back whinging the problem was before the paid for the pup they signed the contract outling they understood what limited register was & had been clearly discussed.

I am not a believer of selling all pups on main .

With the handful we have sold as show dogs our arrangement has been they show in our name for the first 6 months at which time they must commit to the intense grooming required,if after that 6 months they wish to continue & it is show quality the dog is tranferred over in to joint names.if they arent committed its down graded & must be spayed as all our pets must be spayed.

It has worked very well for us as we havea breed highly sort after for exporting.BYB & DD breeders

[Jed]

What reason did the breeder give you for not transferring the pup to Main Register kyxen kennels?

I don't think there is a problem with limited register, personally.

[ellz]

I don't see an issue with Limited Registration either. In the OP's case it is more a case of them selecting the wrong breeder to work with.

[alpha bet]

Personally I believe that the Limited Register has for many breeders become a way to try to control the breed. they like the idea of passing judgement of who they think is 'worthy' of having the potential to breed pedigree dogs in the future.

If we aren't careful we may find that we miss out on people coming into the breeding of pure bred in future generations. Even now when I have gone to see the shows there is possibly a third the number of dogs/people being shown than there was in the 70/80's.

The limited register was meant to be a tool for breeders to have an alternative registration for dogs they felt might not make to standard or have severe faults. Instead it is being used as a tool to restrict new enthusiasts.

I hate that breeders use the excuse that they are trying to keep the dogs out of the hands of BYB or puppy farmers. In reality it is not - if the dog is sold with Limited Registration and not yet desexed then it will still be available to the BYB and Farmers.

I want to see the breeds open up to new people - let them purchase a quality puppy with full papers - perhaps they will decide to show/compete or become involved in other programs and then in future we wont loose some of these beautiful dogs/pets to the gene pool.

[ellz]

Prior to Limited Registration, the only other option was to simply not register pet puppies at all. This made it impossible for a good quality puppy to be evaluated and upgraded by a breeder at a later date of course so a quality dog was completely lost to the show and breeding world for good.

At least LR gives a breeder the option to upgrade to Main at a later date if so desired.

I don't see that it causes any more problems with the "controlling" of breeds any more than other methods have done for a long time. Those who wish to control their breed and/or puppy buyers will still manage to find a way.

[WreckitWhippet]

If there was no LR, breeders would simply make sure that they co-owned everything and maintained the controlling interest.

[Norskgra]

I don't see any problems with the limited register as it stands.

[WreckitWhippet]

The more I think about it, the more I like it and if more breeders used it instead of putting everything on the main register, my breed for one would be a hell of a lot better off.

There wouldn't be hundreds of poorly bred blue litters every year and a hell of a lot less dogs and bitches out there that look nothing like what the breed is supposed to.

[Aziah]

Personally I believe that the Limited Register has for many breeders become a way to try to control the breed. they like the idea of passing judgement of who they think is 'worthy' of having the potential to breed pedigree dogs in the future.

If we aren't careful we may find that we miss out on people coming into the breeding of pure bred in future generations. Even now when I have gone to see the shows there is possibly a third the number of dogs/people being shown than there was in the 70/80's.

The limited register was meant to be a tool for breeders to have an alternative registration for dogs they felt might not make to standard or have severe faults. Instead it is being used as a tool to restrict new enthusiasts.

I hate that breeders use the excuse that they are trying to keep the dogs out of the hands of BYB or puppy farmers. In reality it is not - if the dog is sold with Limited Registration and not yet desexed then it will still be available to the BYB and Farmers.

I want to see the breeds open up to new people - let them purchase a quality puppy with full papers - perhaps they will decide to show/compete or become involved in other programs and then in future we wont loose some of these beautiful dogs/pets to the gene pool.

...and perhaps they won't decide to show/compete or become involved in other programs, perhaps we'll have an array of people with MR dogs who can then do what they please with a dog and pedigree many breeders have worked their butts off for over the years!

What a worrying post! We all want new people but it needs to be done the right way, protecting the new owners, breeder, puppy and pedigree...not by selling puppies on Main register willy nilly!

[Christina]

I hate that breeders use the excuse that they are trying to keep the dogs out of the hands of BYB or puppy farmers. In reality it is not - if the dog is sold with Limited Registration and not yet desexed then it will still be available to the BYB and Farmers.

That's about it exactly. A shame that the breeder will not do main reg for show & has broken their word but doubt anything can be done about it.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Personally I believe that the Limited Register has for many breeders become a way to try to control the breed. they like the idea of passing judgement of who they think is 'worthy' of having the potential to breed pedigree dogs in the future.

If we aren't careful we may find that we miss out on people coming into the breeding of pure bred in future generations. Even now when I have gone to see the shows there is possibly a third the number of dogs/people being shown than there was in the 70/80's.

The limited register was meant to be a tool for breeders to have an alternative registration for dogs they felt might not make to standard or have severe faults. Instead it is being used as a tool to restrict new enthusiasts.

I hate that breeders use the excuse that they are trying to keep the dogs out of the hands of BYB or puppy farmers. In reality it is not - if the dog is sold with Limited Registration and not yet desexed then it will still be available to the BYB and Farmers.

I want to see the breeds open up to new people - let them purchase a quality puppy with full papers - perhaps they will decide to show/compete or become involved in other programs and then in future we wont loose some of these beautiful dogs/pets to the gene pool.

alpha bet I tend to agree with you. There are some breeders/showie out there who only send their 2nd rate stock of to other people.

Personally I would rather see my good quality in the ring and the rest pet homed.

[MissMonaro]

All of my pups that are going to pet homes go on the Limited Register.

It is explained to ppl well and truly before any money changes hands, and when they pick up the puppy, they are shown the form to be signed - explained again - and forms submitted to register the pups.

Main register is only by negotiation / serious discussion.

[Guest Doglady0419]

What do you mean people paying lots of money for pups and then finding out it's on Limited? Many breeders charge the same price ofr show/pet puppies so often the 'lots of money' is the same amount.

Do these people actually tell you they set out to show and told the breeder that or that they simply didn't know?

they paid $2500 for a staffy pup and told the breeder that they told the breeder they didnt know if they would but maybe in a year or two. after 6 months they decided to show and went to do it but got told they cant because its on LR they went to the breeder who said i only sell pups to pet homes. the owners of the staffy didnt know that they wouldnt be allowed to show. if they knew that they would of gone to a different breeder.

Is the Stafford 'blue' in colour by any chance?

i have no idea. they now own 2 staffys ones the one i was talking about and the other is a petshop one they bought for $500 dont know the colours sorry

Absoultley agree with you MissMonaro!!

A LR can be upgraded but once....this is done by written consent from the breeder.

I have upgraded a pup at a mature age only to find that the owner didn't live up to their end of the bargain. The owner purchased the pup initially for a pet/performance dog....not a show dog....and all the wonderful things she was going to do with the dog ended up on the back burner......to this day the dog has NEVER been in the show ring.

I sell dogs on breeder's terms on Main Register, but it is MY call if the dog remains entire or on main register. I state everything in a contract. I will also upgrade a dog IF they are worthy of being upgraded and only IF the owner is worthy of owning a dog on main register. I have had a pup de-sexed because the owner didn't want to comply with the content of the contract after she signed and took the dog home. Maybe a loss for my breeding program, but an act of responsibility.

If you don't like my terms.....don't sign the contract and you don't get the dog.

[MolassesLass]

Personally I believe that the Limited Register has for many breeders become a way to try to control the breed. they like the idea of passing judgement of who they think is 'worthy' of having the potential to breed pedigree dogs in the future.

Oh how terrible! People breed dogs and then expect to have some say in what happens to them individually and the breed as a whole!

They should of course not give a crap and sell anything to anyone with no conditions ever.

I want to see the breeds open up to new people - let them purchase a quality puppy with full papers - perhaps they will decide to show/compete or become involved in other programs and then in future we wont loose some of these beautiful dogs/pets to the gene pool.

I'd love to see that too on the proviso that it's opened up to responsible, ethical and knowledgable new people. These people (once proven) are welcome to have a MR dog and a lifetime of support from me but every Joe Bloe who's certain he's going to show or trial and be that person, nuh uh.

[Miranda]

Personally I believe that the Limited Register has for many breeders become a way to try to control the breed. they like the idea of passing judgement of who they think is 'worthy' of having the potential to breed pedigree dogs in the future.

I will only sell my puppies to those whom I consider 'worthy', if I don't think the prospective purchaser is suitable I won't sell them a puppy, my puppy, my choice.

I want to see the breeds open up to new people - let them purchase a quality puppy with full papers - perhaps they will decide to show/compete or become involved in other programs and then in future we wont loose some of these beautiful dogs/pets to the gene pool.

Sounds great in theory but in my experience it seldom works out in reality. Puppy buyers often say that they'd like to show and either go to a few shows and then give up or don't bother at all. So that quality puppy that you sold on main register ends up as a desexed pet in someone's backyard and all your hopes are shattered, been there and done that There are usually only a couple of outstanding show prospects puppies in a litter, why waste one of them on someone who may, but probably won't, show. I have to be very sure of someone before I will sell them a puppy with show potential.

[oakway]

Hi guys

just curious about your thoughts on limited register.

we have had issues with this as we bought a dog on the limited register and the breeder gave us his word that he would change him to the main when he was a year old to make sure everything was ok with him. so we could then show and breed from him. this of course never happend and he is now nearly 3 and theres not much time to fight him on it. we have tried every avenue. cccq and nsw and they wont do anything about it. we have countless emails regarding the agreement but it wont stand up in court.

what are your thoughts on limited register. should pups be put on there just to stop people showing and breeding from them. or should there be a ligitamite reason they are on there (like major faults with the breed)

If the breeder did not consider the dog good enough then the breeder was under no obligation to up grade the dog.

That just the way I read your post.

[kyxen kennels]

What reason did the breeder give you for not transferring the pup to Main Register kyxen kennels?

I don't think there is a problem with limited register, personally.

at first it was because he wanted to see the dog when he was a year old to make sure he was to standard. then he just out right refused to change him after we sent him pictures and got judges to look at him ect not sure on the reason i think he just wanted to control the breed ect. there are several breeders that he told of this arangement but now says we never told him we had intentions of breeding or showing. which is a lie coz we already had 4 other dogs at the time and we had another pup we were interested in as well but he said he would change the dog off LR otherwise we wouldnt have got the pup in the first place.

[kyxen kennels]

With our pups they are all sold on main register. Unless there is a major fault with them that calls for it to be put on LR. We have extensive disscussions with all potential buyers of our pups as we want them to go to great homes.

we have turned down many people wanting to buy a pup from us as we didnt beleive they were going to be suitable for a pup.

in doing this we have great owners of our pups that we keep in contact with on a regular basis. they love sending us pics updating us on their progress. we even introduced one to showing. they didnt stick with it however they were still a great home for the pup and is part of their family.

i think if everyone did this then there wouldn't be a problem with people abusing the LR

[ellz]

What reason did the breeder give you for not transferring the pup to Main Register kyxen kennels?

I don't think there is a problem with limited register, personally.

at first it was because he wanted to see the dog when he was a year old to make sure he was to standard. then he just out right refused to change him after we sent him pictures and got judges to look at him ect not sure on the reason i think he just wanted to control the breed ect. there are several breeders that he told of this arangement but now says we never told him we had intentions of breeding or showing. which is a lie coz we already had 4 other dogs at the time and we had another pup we were interested in as well but he said he would change the dog off LR otherwise we wouldnt have got the pup in the first place.

Well, my experience tells me that there are always three sides to every story.

But given what you have said here, I'm afraid you must accept at least 75% of the "blame" in this case. Why ANYBODY who already breeds and shows dogs would knowingly accept a dog on LR with those conditions is absolutely beyond me. I'm sorry, but NO puppy is good enough to gamble on in this way. If you can't buy the dog on Main Register to do with what you will, or at the least in a partnership with the terms and conditions clearly laid out IN ADVANCE, then the fact is....you walk away.