1000km Rule Or National No Cc Rule

[angelsun]

Those that are stating "one weekend a year" isn't a big deal, from what I'm seeing on locations, generally live in areas where they can pick and choose shows at ease. Those that are against national CC restriction on a national weekend, live in areas where the number of shows is FAR less and as such one weekend IS a big deal. (not all, but many from what I"m seeing)

I agree totally about peoples decisions to attend a national because of a judge for example. There are a few out there that I wouldn't cross the street to be judged under, why would I sink my years holiday fund into driving many kms and showing to them simply because it's a National?

I also agree that the restriction on CC's will not increase the entry at a show. Based on past numbers of different breed national specialties, we've seen this to be true. (when the restriction was only state wide versus 1000km rule)

What about those that choose for whatever reason, to not belong to their breed club and as such will not participate in events sanctioned by them? There are many reasons for this, only a few including internal politics within the club, people unable to be members because someone within the club doesn't like them (or their partner), Disagreement with some or any of the policies sanctioned by the breed club (in the case where it can contradict the breed standard) I can go on and on, and all of these things have occured to people I know and all fairly recently. Why support a show, run by a club that you don't agree with on whatever level? We preach that by not entering under a judge, it's the only way to send that judge a message (lack of entry) if you feel they are not doing their job properly, and yet we are guilted into feeling that because we call a show a National specialty show, we MUST enter or we don't care about our breed! This is most definately not the case for a majority of people.

What about the person living on the fringes of the restriction, with a litter of pups? They can't be expected to drive 12 hours to the show, but have to give up the show twenty minutes down the road. It's not that they don't support their club, or the show, but reality kicks in and it is, what it is!

I think it's very short sighted to assume that because some people choose to not enter a National Specialty, they are chastised or worse, ostrasized for not doing so. As well, in my opinion, it is very short sighted to assume that everyone has access to the amount and variety of shows in my particular region (which there are many, within 3 hour drive if I chose to go) when in fact, many do not have this choice, and as such a national ban of CC's during the weekend of a Specialty could clearly cause someone to be less competative overall when it's all done and hung to dry.

I should add that we need to consider the all breed shows and what they can lose, in a time where entries are declining due to petrol prices and the economy in general. A club won't go broke because my one German Pinscher didn't attend, but when you see an entry of say 35 cavaliers for two days, that adds up....what if there was also a Golden Retriever show? Suddenly a club (in my area) could see a drop of 60 entries.....

As mentioned as well, why would someone in Darwin be penalized for not going to a National in Melbourne? I"m not sure I would appreciate my breed club, or the ANKC for that matter, attempting to hold my show plans hostage, which is what this is, in my opinion.

[WreckitWhippet]

Surely people can't be that hard up to title a dog, that they can't miss one weekend in a year or two whilst a national is on. They could of course still enter the local show, participate and show their support, it simply means no points.

The no points thing also works in the reverse for those who choose to attend a National or Speciality. There might be only one or possibly two sets of CC points on offer for that weekend and with an entry of a couple of hundred each day, your chances of getting them are much less.

I would give up at least 6 weekends of all breeds showing each year to attend Specialites. I might only attend a couple of Specialty weekends, but the amount of saving required, means that something has to give.

And yes, I too live in a rural area and if there's nothing local on, it means hauling a trailer over the blue mountains.

[angelsun]

I would give up at least 6 weekends of all breeds showing each year to attend Specialites. I might only attend a couple of Specialty weekends, but the amount of saving required, means that something has to give.

And you have that right to make that decision, what is subject of discussion is simply that the right to choose what show to attend is removed with this rule. Those that do not attend, are not attempting to state that those that do, are incorrect for doing so, unlike the reverse implication.

Like so many issues within the dog ownership world, the right to choose is what is the issue here I think.

As I have mentioned prior in this thread. I do not say that there shouldn't be a milage blackout, only a smaller and more reasonable figure used compared to the 1000km one currently in place. As we have seen by numbers/mileage between major centres, many are affected by this figure. Contrary to what many beleive, we do not all live in major centres and as such, all the shows that dot the land between these areas are also affected. It's 3 hours for me to drive to Melbourne, 4.5 hours to Canberra and about 7 hours to Sydney which places me about in the middle of the black out zone for most eastern areas if they had a specialty that applied to me or mine. This is a huge area, and encompasses many many smaller shows that are well within a reasonable day trip drive.

As continues to be mentioned, but no one has really been able to answer this: for those areas that do NOT have a show every weekend (and as mentioned in NT that there is one per month on average, which equates to about a dozen for the year) To lose one set of possible points, is in fact a big deal and should not be dismissed simply because a large amount of posters, have a chance to do these dozen shows in less than four months, meaning they have the option of three times the shows per year. Sure, missing one weekend when you have that many to pick from, ISN'T a big deal, but perhaps some could try for a moment to put themselves in others shoes where either infrequency of shows or the simple costs of great distances mean its unrealistic to attend. Toss in that the judge might simply be a moron when it comes to your breed (and yes, that happens that the judge in question hasn't a clue about the breed he/she's been asked to officiate over because of things such as who happened to be on the judge selection committee or who owes who a favour)

It's unfortunate that there are some that simply can not see both sides to this debate and consider the one they don't agree with, is simply wrong.

I'm attending a specialty on the weekend. It's not a National and we have three 'pinschers' to accomodate for our club. It's in Melbourne and a three hour drive....now ignore that this is a state club that is hosting....if this same show was in Sydney, I doubt very much I would be attending....why? It's not because I don't want to support the club, it's simply because we have eight dogs at home, one vehicle and it's over 7 hours drive. For me to attend economically, would mean going on my own and not kenneling dogs however that leaves dogs here, a husband and no car.....I have to be realistic and the money tree out back didn't survive the drought.

[WreckitWhippet]

Your right to attend is not removed. You can still attend any show in the country whilst there is a National on, let's not forgot that.

[angelsun]

That's not entirely true. Yes you can enter, but you will not have the opportunity to be rewarded for your efforts at the breed level with CC's, hence my statement that those that for whatever reason can not/will not attend, they are penalized.

[oakway]

Those that are stating "one weekend a year" isn't a big deal, from what I'm seeing on locations, generally live in areas where they can pick and choose shows at ease. Those that are against national CC restriction on a national weekend, live in areas where the number of shows is FAR less and as such one weekend IS a big deal. (not all, but many from what I"m seeing)

I agree totally about peoples decisions to attend a national because of a judge for example. There are a few out there that I wouldn't cross the street to be judged under, why would I sink my years holiday fund into driving many kms and showing to them simply because it's a National?

I also agree that the restriction on CC's will not increase the entry at a show. Based on past numbers of different breed national specialties, we've seen this to be true. (when the restriction was only state wide versus 1000km rule)

What about those that choose for whatever reason, to not belong to their breed club and as such will not participate in events sanctioned by them? There are many reasons for this, only a few including internal politics within the club, people unable to be members because someone within the club doesn't like them (or their partner), Disagreement with some or any of the policies sanctioned by the breed club (in the case where it can contradict the breed standard) I can go on and on, and all of these things have occured to people I know and all fairly recently. Why support a show, run by a club that you don't agree with on whatever level? We preach that by not entering under a judge, it's the only way to send that judge a message (lack of entry) if you feel they are not doing their job properly, and yet we are guilted into feeling that because we call a show a National specialty show, we MUST enter or we don't care about our breed! This is most definately not the case for a majority of people.

What about the person living on the fringes of the restriction, with a litter of pups? They can't be expected to drive 12 hours to the show, but have to give up the show twenty minutes down the road. It's not that they don't support their club, or the show, but reality kicks in and it is, what it is!

I think it's very short sighted to assume that because some people choose to not enter a National Specialty, they are chastised or worse, ostrasized for not doing so. As well, in my opinion, it is very short sighted to assume that everyone has access to the amount and variety of shows in my particular region (which there are many, within 3 hour drive if I chose to go) when in fact, many do not have this choice, and as such a national ban of CC's during the weekend of a Specialty could clearly cause someone to be less competative overall when it's all done and hung to dry.

I should add that we need to consider the all breed shows and what they can lose, in a time where entries are declining due to petrol prices and the economy in general. A club won't go broke because my one German Pinscher didn't attend, but when you see an entry of say 35 cavaliers for two days, that adds up....what if there was also a Golden Retriever show? Suddenly a club (in my area) could see a drop of 60 entries.....

As mentioned as well, why would someone in Darwin be penalized for not going to a National in Melbourne? I"m not sure I would appreciate my breed club, or the ANKC for that matter, attempting to hold my show plans hostage, which is what this is, in my opinion.

Excellent post

[WreckitWhippet]

Nationals and Specialty weekends are prestigious occasions, they are about the breed as a whole, getting together a big entry and show casing the breed.

The Specialty or National Challenge is the top award ( in my eyes ) that one can recieve, it is an honour and there shouldn't be any others handed out for that particular breed , when one is conducted.

[oakway]

Nationals and Specialty weekends are prestigious occasions, they are about the breed as a whole, getting together a big entry and show casing the breed.

The Specialty or National Challenge is the top award ( in my eyes ) that one can recieve, it is an honour and there shouldn't be any others handed out for that particular breed , when one is conducted.

Alright I'll be the mug who says it.

What's so prestigious about a show that many of the owners of the breed can tell you who is going to win.

Now don't say it doesn't happen it does.

Many times I've opened the schedule and saw who was judging and knew who was going to win, again, don't say it doesn't happen it does.

[WreckitWhippet]

Nationals and Specialty weekends are prestigious occasions, they are about the breed as a whole, getting together a big entry and show casing the breed.

The Specialty or National Challenge is the top award ( in my eyes ) that one can recieve, it is an honour and there shouldn't be any others handed out for that particular breed , when one is conducted.

Alright I'll be the mug who says it.

What's so prestigious about a show that many of the owners of the breed can tell you who is going to win.

Now don't say it doesn't happen it does.

Many times I've opened the schedule and saw who was judging and knew who was going to win, again, don't say it doesn't happen it does.

I attended a two day Specialty in April and I can tell you now the dogs that I thought might go up didn't necessarily, some did, some were well placed, as good dogs and bitches deserve to be.

In classes of dogs and bitches of 20 plus, it is prestigous just to place and it is an absolute honour to be pulled out and placed on the pegs infront of your fellow breeders/exhibitors and alongside the very best the country has to offer. Even better when your dogs are right up there and winning.

When 200 plus of the countries best dogs and bitches are gathered in one place, there shouldn't be any CC points on offer anywhere but there.

It's a shame that some exhibitors can only see value in a few challenge points. The lack of CC points on offer appear to be the big sticking point in this discussion , for quite a few.

[Aziah]

Nationals and Specialty weekends are prestigious occasions, they are about the breed as a whole, getting together a big entry and show casing the breed.

The Specialty or National Challenge is the top award ( in my eyes ) that one can recieve, it is an honour and there shouldn't be any others handed out for that particular breed , when one is conducted.

Alright I'll be the mug who says it.

What's so prestigious about a show that many of the owners of the breed can tell you who is going to win. :rolleyes:

Now don't say it doesn't happen it does.

Many times I've opened the schedule and saw who was judging and knew who was going to win, again, don't say it doesn't happen it does.

I attended a two day Specialty in April and I can tell you now the dogs that I thought might go up didn't necessarily, some did, some were well placed, as good dogs and bitches deserve to be.

In classes of dogs and bitches of 20 plus, it is prestigous just to place and it is an absolute honour to be pulled out and placed on the pegs infront of your fellow breeders/exhibitors and alongside the very best the country has to offer. Even better when your dogs are right up there and winning.

When 200 plus of the countries best dogs and bitches are gathered in one place, there shouldn't be any CC points on offer anywhere but there.

It's a shame that some exhibitors can only see value in a few challenge points. The lack of CC points on offer appear to be the big sticking point in this discussion , for quite a few.

I totally agree! Our National is fast approaching, some of the classes are going to be HOT, it will just be so fantastic to actually be there competing, seeing so many Cardis and Pems in the one place and having a fun weekend catching up with people from all over Australia.

Even if I couldn't afford to go up with dogs, I'd make damn sure I was on a flight up there to sit ringside and take it all in!

[WreckitWhippet]

Aziah, you hit the nail on the head, it's also an opportunity to sit ringside and take it all in. I know I go to look at certain dogs and bitches that I've seen pics of and would otherwise have no chance of seeing in the flesh. It's also an opportunity to look up up and comings pups and also what dog and bitches from the previous years have put on the ground.

[Aziah]

I wonder about those people not interested in (excluding those who cannot afford it) seeing a mass entry of their breed, why aren't you interested and why breed?

[oakway]

Well at least both of you that answered above didn't say it doesn't happen. :rolleyes:

The 1000 km rule does not get people to enter. Fact.

Those that want to go will get there no matter what. Fact.

Those that cant go for varies reason weather it be, can't afford it, the distance is to great, work, don't like the Judge, etc.. Fact.

These people have a right to go to the the show of their choice and support that show and receive Challenge points for their dog.

In this day and age when cost has to be factored into many things, it is down right discriminatory for any organisation to say if you don't go you can't go anywhere else.

Edited May 13, 2010 by oakway

[Aziah]

My answer still remains oakway - no CC's Australia wide at any show other than the Breed National :rolleyes:

It's not discriminating IMHO it just shows support and respect for that National show for ONE weekend of the year...

[oakway]

Azaih,

I have no problems with your thoughts on the matter.

Nor do I have problem with any other persons thoughts on the matter.

To each their own.

I am a great believer in the saying........

I may not believe in what you say, but I believe you have the right to say it. :rolleyes:

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Alright I'll be the mug who says it.

What's so prestigious about a show that many of the owners of the breed can tell you who is going to win. :rolleyes:

Now don't say it doesn't happen it does.

Many times I've opened the schedule and saw who was judging and knew who was going to win, again, don't say it doesn't happen it does.

Just so I'm clear here - are you saying that they can tell you who is going to win because the judge has a well known preference for a particular type and has put Ch Show Pony, a dog exemplifying that type, up before - OR - are you saying that people in the breed are aware of a corrupt relationship between the judge and the predicted winner? Something else?

[oakway]

Sky SoaringMagpie,

You take it any way you like. :rolleyes:

[Aziah]

Azaih,

I have no problems with your thoughts on the matter.

Nor do I have problem with any other persons thoughts on the matter.

To each their own.

I am a great believer in the saying........

I may not believe in what you say, but I believe you have the right to say it. :rolleyes:

I know, we all have our opinions and beliefs

[SparkyTansy]

Well at least both of you that answered above didn't say it doesn't happen. :rolleyes:

The 1000 km rule does not get people to enter. Fact.

Those that want to go will get there no matter what. Fact.

Those that cant go for varies reason weather it be, can't afford it, the distance is to great, work, don't like the Judge, etc.. Fact.

These people have a right to go to the the show of their choice and support that show and receive Challenge points for their dog.

In this day and age when cost has to be factored into many things, it is down right discriminatory for any organisation to say if you don't go you can't go anywhere else.

Certainly doesn't happen in my breed... every breeder/exhiibitor i spoke to who has been at a national previous to the one i attended said you never know what might happen at a national.I am sure everyone who exclusively breeds shorthair weimaraners who watched a different LH win BIS three years running would agree.

For those with breeds who have nationals on a yearly basis, is this too often, perhaps? maybe it has lost it's appeal? Sorry slightly off topic...

[Aziah]

ST - I like ours being every second year, adds to the excitement and anticipation and gives a good age gap to view the dogs coming through the classes (and their progeny) :rolleyes: