Dog Attack This Morning

[Abigail]

Chewbacca, I have owned staffies before, two of them and both were unbelievably affectionate pets towards both my hubby and I. God only knows I can still see my male staffy whinging when I was applying my lipstick shortly before going out, he just knew and showed his sadness each and every time. Purebred english staffies are great little family members but they are DA (before people start jumping up and down I do concede that not all are DA, there is always the exception to every rule). The DA bit is the only thing I dislike about the breed and the potential for damage, which as far as I am concerned, exceeds any other breed.

You have owned soooo many dogs, how old are you? i'm inclined to feel that you may be telling porkies.

we get that you don't like staffies and apbt's, maybe you should change your name to BSL.

You are sounding rather narky, don't you think? Not telling porkies at all, that would be a complete waste of time and just too boring for me. I like to say it as it very well is. My hubby and I have always owned 2 to 3 breeds at a time and given that we have been married for a little over 20 years adds up to a fair few breeds. The two staffies that we owned did not stay with us till old age; one was rehomed and the other was put to sleep. The boxer was a rescue and would have been roughly 4-5 years of age (just a guess as they were not too sure) when we adopted him from the RSPCA and he lived with us till the age of 14. Don't call me a Liar, hate liars.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Abigail

[Abigail]

Chewbacca, I have owned staffies before, two of them and both were unbelievably affectionate pets towards both my hubby and I. God only knows I can still see my male staffy whinging when I was applying my lipstick shortly before going out, he just knew and showed his sadness each and every time. Purebred english staffies are great little family members but they are DA (before people start jumping up and down I do concede that not all are DA, there is always the exception to every rule). The DA bit is the only thing I dislike about the breed and the potential for damage, which as far as I am concerned, exceeds any other breed.

You have owned soooo many dogs, how old are you? i'm inclined to feel that you may be telling porkies.

we get that you don't like staffies and apbt's, maybe you should change your name to BSL.

And for your information, I have never implied that I don't like staffies or APBT. I have always maintained that they require a responsible owner, a secure fence and to be on a leash when out in public. If I didn't like them I would have said, in no uncertain term, that they should cease to exist. I am not a shrinking violet and if something needs to be said I will say it, as it is.

[geo]

Chewbacca, I have owned staffies before, two of them and both were unbelievably affectionate pets towards both my hubby and I. God only knows I can still see my male staffy whinging when I was applying my lipstick shortly before going out, he just knew and showed his sadness each and every time. Purebred english staffies are great little family members but they are DA (before people start jumping up and down I do concede that not all are DA, there is always the exception to every rule). The DA bit is the only thing I dislike about the breed and the potential for damage, which as far as I am concerned, exceeds any other breed.

You have owned soooo many dogs, how old are you? i'm inclined to feel that you may be telling porkies.

we get that you don't like staffies and apbt's, maybe you should change your name to BSL.

You are sounding rather narky, don't you think? Not telling porkies at all, that would be a complete waste of time and just too boring for me. I like to say it as it very well is. My hubby and I have always owned 2 to 3 breeds at a time and given that we have been married for a little over 20 years adds up to a fair few breeds. The two staffies that we owned did not stay with us till old age; one was rehomed and the other was put to sleep. The boxer was a rescue and would have been roughly 4-5 years of age (just a guess as they were not too sure) when we adopted him from the RSPCA and he lived with us till the age of 14. Don't call me a Liar, hate liars.

Ok i believe you, but don't you think you have an issue with these breeds? you're entitled to your opinion but you're sounding like a broken record and no matter how many times the majority of people say, 'ownership, responsibilty" , you seem to want to keep breed bashing. I'm not saying that all bullies are innocent, but neither is any breed.

[Abigail]

Chewbacca, I have owned staffies before, two of them and both were unbelievably affectionate pets towards both my hubby and I. God only knows I can still see my male staffy whinging when I was applying my lipstick shortly before going out, he just knew and showed his sadness each and every time. Purebred english staffies are great little family members but they are DA (before people start jumping up and down I do concede that not all are DA, there is always the exception to every rule). The DA bit is the only thing I dislike about the breed and the potential for damage, which as far as I am concerned, exceeds any other breed.

You have owned soooo many dogs, how old are you? i'm inclined to feel that you may be telling porkies.

we get that you don't like staffies and apbt's, maybe you should change your name to BSL.

You are sounding rather narky, don't you think? Not telling porkies at all, that would be a complete waste of time and just too boring for me. I like to say it as it very well is. My hubby and I have always owned 2 to 3 breeds at a time and given that we have been married for a little over 20 years adds up to a fair few breeds. The two staffies that we owned did not stay with us till old age; one was rehomed and the other was put to sleep. The boxer was a rescue and would have been roughly 4-5 years of age (just a guess as they were not too sure) when we adopted him from the RSPCA and he lived with us till the age of 14. Don't call me a Liar, hate liars.

Ok i believe you, but don't you think you have an issue with these breeds? you're entitled to your opinion but you're sounding like a broken record and no matter how many times the majority of people say, 'ownership, responsibilty" , you seem to want to keep breed bashing. I'm not saying that all bullies are innocent, but neither is any breed.

Yes you are right, no breed is innocent.

[geo]

Yes you are right, no breed is innocent.

I admit i have rose tinted glasses a little with staffies et al, but having been around DA dogs all my life i've always been fully aware of their behavior, and i do have to remind myself that not everyone has the same experience, so i apoloige for being a little narky.

Havin 2 large dogs and a 7 month old girl i'm now more paranoid than ever due to all the media stuff, even though my dogs are great around her, so i'm trying to ensure they enjoy having her here.

[Jed]

grrrr.

why the hell can owners not keep their dogs restrained?!

I had to witness a dog attack another dog this morning because the owner's stupid front gates were open (not that they were high fences anyway)..

The other dog was not seriously hurt, but did get a puncture wound.

I managed to scare the attacking dog off away from the other dog and the kids who were there (my daughter included) who were all terrified watching this occur.

Am on the phone now reporting it to council.

not happy jan!

It is so very frustrating when this sort of thing happens time and time again! People just will never learn! :p

I guess it is a false belief system with some people that their beloved dog would not hurt a fly, yea right!

What breed of dog is the attacking dog?

What relevance does this have :D

Because Abigail thinks breed is important. She is our chief proponent of BSL, so of course breed is important ;)

[Jed]

Some dog owners need to be hit in the hip pocket a few times before they understand the concept of "responsible dog ownership" and no amount of talking to them by neighbours will achieve this.

The breed does matter in terms of fear factor for example

This thread is about irresponsible owners and lack of containment of dogs, not about breed bashing.

I was asking about the breed of dog as mere curiosity. I guess, given that some people are in the habit of saying that the media only ever potrays stories that consist of bully breeds, I am trying to find out if it is a case of media sensationalism or perhaps if there is truth that some breeds are more DA than others. Just in quest for the truth, not breed bashing. My hubby and I have owned german shepherds, dobes, staffies, american bullies and have looked after friend's rotties so I have nothing against bully breeds although, as I have said before I would never again own a staffy due to their 'high prey drive.' Every other breed has been an absolute pleasure to have.

why not go and look at the dog bite stats - not what's in the media, the actual stats. They are listed state by state. Ascertaining which breed attacked a couple of dogs on a forum is not going to give you any relevant information, but the stats will.

Abigail

Purebred english staffies are great little family members but they are DA (before people start jumping up and down I do concede that not all are DA, there is always the exception to every rule). The DA bit is the only thing I dislike about the breed and the potential for damage, which as far as I am concerned, exceeds any other breed

What's a "Purebred English staffie" for a start?

Second, DA is often a fault of training and socialisation. If pups and juveniles are not socialised, particularly males, they can become DA.

If they are menaced or attacked by another dog during their critical period, they can become DA.

I would suggest that as you stated that ALL your staffies were DA, the problem arose due to lack of training, and/or lack of socialisation, or both.

DA staffies exist, as do DA any breed, but correct training and socialisation usually resolves any issues. Incorrect training usually exacerbates it.

The problem is NOT DA staffies, or DA anything, the problem is having gates which open from private property to public access land so dogs are able to access public land.

And I would suspect that this dog was probably not DA, but territorial - he viewed the footpath as "his", another dog was in his territory, ergo, he did something about it. I was not there, but I would think that DA and territorial would be neck and neck for the cause of the attack.

Writing off every attack as DA shows lack of research and information

Dogs ARE usually territorial, which is why gates should be kept shut. The half grown dog over the road has come to talk to my dogs through the fence. He comes in friendship and curiosity. They view him as an intruder, and threaten him (through the fence) with death and dismemberment. Naturally, he responds with a lot of four letter words and some aggro. Then we have a bark and snarl fest through the fence. If one of my dogs got through the fence, I have no doubt that the dog over the road would be seriously injured.

Last time they were at it, I turned the hose on the lot of them and said some four letter words myself ("down" and "stop").

If this dog came to the gate, and I welcomed him, my dogs would be friendly and nice to him.

My dogs are not dog aggressive in any way, shape or form. However, they are dogs, and they are guarding their property.

People who own dogs need to understand why various forms of aggression happen, and they need to ensure that this aggression doesn't happen. There is a difference in the REASON for a dog in an off leash park attacking another, and a dog rushing out an open gate/jumping a fence to attack another dog.....in most cases.

And I have yet to see an aggressive staffy, but the ones I mostly see are at dog shows, so I presume they are carefully bred, and owned by people with good knowledge of the breed and sufficient training skills.

Not all APBT are dog aggressive either. There is evidence from USA that thousands are kicked, beaten, starved, set on fire and dumped because they were not dog aggressive, and would not fight for their owners. Some are dog aggressive, but in my experience, APBT which are decently bred, and brought up right are no more aggressive than other breeds.

I've seen some very nasty and aggressive boxers, but that doesn't stop me owning them, or make me want to have the entire breed banned. The nasty aggressive ones should be dealt with.

I've also seen some extremely nasty chihuahuas, one of which gave me some of the worst dogs bites I've had, but I don't think they should be banned either, because most of them are nice.

Once you begin categorizing attacks by breed, you lose the plot.

Once you want to ban breeds because members of that breed have behaved badly, (attacked fatally) you are looking at banning Labradors, GR, Irish Setters, St Bernards, Boxers, Cattledogs, Crossbreds, Maltese, Rottweilers, GSD, Huskys, Chow Chows, Akitas, Pomeranians, Malamutes, Pit Bulls and Staffies. Oh and Cocker Spaniels.

And you disregard the thousands of respresentatives of each breed which have done no harm - ever.

3 boxers killed their breeder. Does that mean I have my boxers euthed in case they attack me? Does that mean I scream to have the breed banned? No, but it ensures that I understand that my breed is a very strong dog, which can do immense damage, so I train and contain them appropriately, I breed with suitable temperaments, and I ensure they go to homes which will not allow them to become aggressive. Luckily, the breed is nowhere near as popular as staffies, so there is less chance of unsuitable ones being backyarded and being owned by the wrong people.

And by advocating BSL you absolve individuals and councils of their responsibility to adhere to and ensure that existing legislation is enforced.

As Ti did when she reported the dog. Every dog attack should be reported. Every council should be made to take action. Whether it is going to the house and talking to the people about adequate fencing, keeping the gates shut, and training, or declaring the dog as dangerous.

Whatever the breed. Dogs, per se ARE dangerous.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Jed

[~Shepherd~]

Chewbacca, I have owned staffies before, two of them and both were unbelievably affectionate pets towards both my hubby and I. God only knows I can still see my male staffy whinging when I was applying my lipstick shortly before going out, he just knew and showed his sadness each and every time. Purebred english staffies are great little family members but they are DA (before people start jumping up and down I do concede that not all are DA, there is always the exception to every rule). The DA bit is the only thing I dislike about the breed and the potential for damage, which as far as I am concerned, exceeds any other breed.

You have owned soooo many dogs, how old are you? i'm inclined to feel that you may be telling porkies.

we get that you don't like staffies and apbt's, maybe you should change your name to BSL.

And for your information, I have never implied that I don't like staffies or APBT. I have always maintained that they require a responsible owner, a secure fence and to be on a leash when out in public. If I didn't like them I would have said, in no uncertain term, that they should cease to exist. I am not a shrinking violet and if something needs to be said I will say it, as it is. :D

So where did you get your SBT's from and why did you part with both of them?

[Jed]

I can just imagine a security chihuahua, a pekingnese schutzhund :D . I wonder why we never see it if the breed doesn't matter.

Maybe because you haven't looked for it? ;)

Schutzhund with JRT 1

Still haven't found that peke schutzhund though. looking, looking, looking

Give up :p

"Let his front legs be bowed so he cannot stray too far" Not an ideal candidate, in my opinion!!

As for chihuahuas - they'd be winners in schult. My vet said (from experience) if they were the size of rotties, they would have killed the human race long ago.

[furballs]

I agree with what Jed is saying

It's usually from lack of socialisation or a bogan owner who gets a "tough" breed and encourages it to be vicious. I have a Border Collie and a Rottweiler and when I have new dog visitors I have to lock the border collie away because she is DA. The Rottweiler is friendly and welcoming to all new dogs and people.

Having said this, the BC was socialised with new dogs at least 5 times a week for the first 3 years of her life and developed an aggression problem at about 18 months. It turned out that this was due to an underactive thyroid so it wouldn't have mattered what breed she was.

[Jed]

We did say that if the APBT was banned, idiots would simply choose another breed.

When staffies are banned, they will choose something else.

Oh yes, bullmastiffs, bulldogs and mastiffs should be banned too. Have attacked.

[furballs]

We did say that if the APBT was banned, idiots would simply choose another breed.

When staffies are banned, they will choose something else.

Oh yes, bullmastiffs, bulldogs and mastiffs should be banned too. Have attacked.

There are always going to be idiots unfortunately, and all of us decent dog owners end up suffering because of them in the end.

People, please introduce yourselves to large and extra large dog breeds, they are usually the sookiest, loveliest dogs you will ever encounter. That's why I love big dogs so much :D

[Black Bronson]

I agree with what Jed is saying

It's usually from lack of socialisation or a bogan owner who gets a "tough" breed and encourages it to be vicious. I have a Border Collie and a Rottweiler and when I have new dog visitors I have to lock the border collie away because she is DA. The Rottweiler is friendly and welcoming to all new dogs and people.

Having said this, the BC was socialised with new dogs at least 5 times a week for the first 3 years of her life and developed an aggression problem at about 18 months. It turned out that this was due to an underactive thyroid so it wouldn't have mattered what breed she was.

A lack of socialisation can contribute to a dog being DA along with an illness and a bad experience, but many cases that breeders usually deny is genetic. Specialised training can help improve a genetically DA dog, but you can't trust them. My nanna had a nice Labrador years ago that had never been on a leash or seen another dog since it's mother and litter mates and was 2 years old at the time it was walked and trained. She wasn't the slightest bit DA, loved people and other dogs, but DA is not a common Labrador trait. Perhaps another breed, things may have been different.

[Black Bronson]

We did say that if the APBT was banned, idiots would simply choose another breed.

When staffies are banned, they will choose something else.

Oh yes, bullmastiffs, bulldogs and mastiffs should be banned too. Have attacked.

Jed, there are Bull breeds hanging out of the trees, massive amounts of Staffy breeders along with the BYB's cross breeds etc etc, but I haven't really ever noticed DA in good Staffy a well bred Stafford with thought out genetics or an APBT from an experienced breeder. The DA Staffies I know of thinking about it, are all BYB, petshop type deals or crosses???. Is an influx of crap dogs perhaps contributing to the Bull breed aggression???.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Black Bronson

[jackie_a1]

Sorry to jump off topic but it was said that there is no such thing as english staffies in this thread. I just want someone to elaborate for me I have always thought english were a classified breed?

[Diva]

Sorry to jump off topic but it was said that there is no such thing as english staffies in this thread. I just want someone to elaborate for me I have always thought english were a classified breed?

I'll try, even though I'm not a terrier person.

The official Australian National Kennel Club name for what some people call English Staffies is Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

There is also a registered breed called the American Staffordshire Terrier

and of course the Bull Terrier, and Bull Terrier (miniature)

The American Pit Bull Terrier is not a recognised ANKC breed. The only terrier-type breed that has "English" in its name as far as I recall is the English Toy Terrier - and that's nothing like a staffie of any sort, it's not even in the Terrier Group, it's a Toy breed.

The web site www.ankc.org.au will list all the breed standards for the above, just look under 'Group 2 Terriers'.

People will assert on DOL from time to time that the APBT is the same as the AST, or even the SBT. I'm not getting into those arguments, just letting you know why Staffordshire Bull Terrier registered breeders will often object to them being called English Staffies - it's not the breed's name here.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Diva

[jackie_a1]

Hey Diva!

Thanks so much for that! I'm gonna quit calling them english now. :D

[Diva]

You're welcome :D

[Robbi]

Due to a couple of newer members of DOL being so rabidly anti any Bull Breeds and blaming them for all the evils in the world today I find myself becoming increasingly HA and more and more in favour of PSL :D

Abigail, out of curiosity what breed of dog is it that you have?

[Jed]

We did say that if the APBT was banned, idiots would simply choose another breed.

When staffies are banned, they will choose something else.

Oh yes, bullmastiffs, bulldogs and mastiffs should be banned too. Have attacked.

Jed, there are Bull breeds hanging out of the trees, massive amounts of Staffy breeders along with the BYB's cross breeds etc etc, but I haven't really ever noticed DA in good Staffy a well bred Stafford with thought out genetics or an APBT from an experienced breeder. The DA Staffies I know of thinking about it, are all BYB, petshop type deals or crosses???. Is an influx of crap dogs perhaps contributing to the Bull breed aggression???.

The point I was making that bullmastiffs, mastiffs and bulldogs have all been implicated in fatal attacks, and judging by some of the pro BSL statements made in this thread, they should be banned as well. If you take BSL to it's logical conclusion, you ban ALL dogs, because ALL dogs can attack.

And that's where we are going.

I'm not getting into the nurture vs nature debate