Reliable Show Stand - Help Needed

[Ptolomy]

I am interested to hear how "show" dogs are taught to stand and not move while the judge goes over them.

Coming from an obedience background - I know how to teach a stand and my dogs cope with an obedience SFE, just - but the show SFE sends them back peddling and into a spin.

Any suggestions on how I can help my 10 month old duck dog??

[emery]

I am of no help, but if you were at the show grounds today I saw your dogs and they are gorgeous, all of them in the car and one being walked never seen a toller until today .

[helen]

OK, if you dog will do this it works like a charm (it will send some dogs nuts and some will stand like a statue)

1- get firm old of dog via collar

2 - throw food/toy out in front of the dog so the dog is watching thrown object, not too close or head will be too far down

3 - release and let the dog get the thrown object

Once dog knows reward is coming for standing then add in moving and stacking the dog while it stands still, if dog looks away from object and doesn't stand game over.

This worked like a charm with one of my girls and a friend is doing this with her young pup and it is working really well, and a nice positive way to train if you have a dog who will do it,

[oakway]

If your dog is not standing to your satisfaction, have you checked that it's back is not out. It may be to uncomfortable to hold a stacked position. Just a thought.

[Kelza]

Get many different people to go over your dog outside the ring. repeat the command before a person goes over your dog and heaps of praises after. It could just be a confidence thing

Best of luck

[Ptolomy]

I am of no help, but if you were at the show grounds today I saw your dogs and they are gorgeous, all of them in the car and one being walked never seen a toller until today .

That was them Next time come and say hello and I will nab you for a SFE

The breed standard says ... Some individuals may display reserved behavior in new situations, but this is not to be confused with shyness...

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Its not the stand that I am having trouble with - its the examination that is causing the problem. Part of training a SFE in obedience is to do oppositional reflex work - so pulling on the lead and rewarding her for not moving. Also training for distractions so throwing food, balls, toys is still a work in progress. People can walk up to her and I reward her for not moving. She will even stay still for somebody to run their hand lightly down her back - BUT it all goes pearshapend when the judge lifts her head to look at teeth and then goes down her back, legs and tail. I guess in obedience I am at the end of the lead and its the dogs job to stand still - in showing I am tending to get in her face expecting her to move so grabbing her collar which may be making the dog worse. ? is 10 months a fear period ?

Tollers follow closely behind labs in the ring and I notice even the lab babies stand still and don't move - so I am obviously doing something wrong - so please keep the suggestions coming.

[armahani]

BUT it all goes pearshapend when the judge lifts her head to look at teeth and then goes down her back, legs and tail. I guess in obedience I am at the end of the lead and its the dogs job to stand still - in showing I am tending to get in her face expecting her to move so grabbing her collar which may be making the dog worse. ? is 10 months a fear period ?

You obviously know how to train for obedience exercises. So I suspect your problem is more that you are not expecting to have to train this the same way . Imagine if there was an obedience exercise where you had to leave your dog in a stand stay, walk away, then the judge would come up, grab their face, look in their teeth, examine their head, etc etc. My guess is if you had to train that, you would easily work out how to do it.

So treat this as the same challenge. Break it down into the simple steps and train. So, if you have the stand stay with you holding the collar all figured out, go the next step and have someone approach your dog's head which they are in the same position. Once they have that figured out, go the next step and train for the person being able to touch the head. Then next step with them grabbing for the jaw. Etc etc. Until they can do the whole exercise.

Says me who never trains that thoroughly for the show ring

[Diva]

So treat this as the same challenge. Break it down into the simple steps and train. So, if you have the stand stay with you holding the collar all figured out, go the next step and have someone approach your dog's head which they are in the same position. Once they have that figured out, go the next step and train for the person being able to touch the head. Then next step with them grabbing for the jaw. Etc etc. Until they can do the whole exercise.

Says me who never trains that thoroughly for the show ring

Also make sure the exercise is solid outside the ring before expecting it inside. Just like obedience your body language will change with ring nerves so you want the dog to understand first that being examined is no big deal. And don't forget the big advantage of the show ring - treats allowed! (And yes I have known dogs to get what looks like a second fear stage around that age, but not sure how formally recognised it is.)

Says she who is a crappy show handler.

[ellz]

You might find some useful information at this site.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Writing/confstack.html

[Ptolomy]

You might find some useful information at this site.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Writing/confstack.html

Argh Proof that Tollers can stand still

Can't thank everybody enough - Diva and Armahani for your suggestions.

I guess one of the major differences between teaching an obedience and a show stand is that when showing stand is the first and only position you teach - in obedience, it is the last of the positions and I have to say I have only introduced it recently - so yes I am expecting more than she is ready for.

Maybe I need to think of it as a continual work in progress