Giant/large Breed Desexing

[Sharna3]

Hello all,

I have an English Mastiff male pup, we plan on getting him desexed. Our vet said 6mths but then someone told me that for giant and large breeds you should wait longer.

Does anyone have any advice on this - I know the vet is knowledgeable but in all fairness to them, they can't be expected to be experts on dog breeds when they need to know a bit about all animals!! So would like advice from current/past G/LRG breed owners on this one :-)

[Black Bronson]

Hello all,

I have an English Mastiff male pup, we plan on getting him desexed. Our vet said 6mths but then someone told me that for giant and large breeds you should wait longer.

Does anyone have any advice on this - I know the vet is knowledgeable but in all fairness to them, they can't be expected to be experts on dog breeds when they need to know a bit about all animals!! So would like advice from current/past G/LRG breed owners on this one :-)

Personally, I don't desex males and believe that the negatives outweigh the positives. If sterilising a male to avoid unwanted matings, I prefer a vastectomy to allow the dog to develop essential hormones for good health and growth. In a large breed, 18 months is the earliest I would consider desexing. 6 months is the standard answer which research has confirmed as too early in large breeds.

[Black Bronson]

Hello all,

I have an English Mastiff male pup, we plan on getting him desexed. Our vet said 6mths but then someone told me that for giant and large breeds you should wait longer.

Does anyone have any advice on this - I know the vet is knowledgeable but in all fairness to them, they can't be expected to be experts on dog breeds when they need to know a bit about all animals!! So would like advice from current/past G/LRG breed owners on this one :-)

Personally, I don't desex males and believe that the negatives outweigh the positives. If sterilising a male to avoid unwanted matings, I prefer a vastectomy to allow the dog to develop essential hormones for good health and growth. In a large breed, 18 months is the earliest I would consider desexing. 6 months is the standard answer which research has confirmed as too early in large breeds.

[Clyde]

Isn't the pup a cross breed? I seem to recall a pic and he was a lot smaller than a pure Mastiff.

[HollyE]

This is interesting to know.

However, If you have say.. A bitch and a dog pup out of the same litter how can you wait this 18months or so? splitting the dogs up is not an option!

[Sharna3]

Personally, I don't desex males and believe that the negatives outweigh the positives. If sterilising a male to avoid unwanted matings, I prefer a vastectomy to allow the dog to develop essential hormones for good health and growth. In a large breed, 18 months is the earliest I would consider desexing. 6 months is the standard answer which research has confirmed as too early in large breeds.

BB:

I didn't realise there was an option? Our reason for desexing is simple: we have no plans to breed and my last dog I kept entire and when he was 7 or 8 he had big prostate issues - putting him through desexing at that age was a worry but we had to, so thought this time around would rather do it earlier. I've never heard of vastectomy's for dogs???

Isn't the pup a cross breed? I seem to recall a pic and he was a lot smaller than a pure Mastiff.

Hi Clyde,

Good memory, yes he'd definitely got cross in him and we believe its on his mothers side, she (we think) is a mastiff x bullmastiff. But not sure what that has to do with my question?

[Clyde]

Because your sig implies that he is pure and that is incorrect. The Mastiff is such a mislabelled breed already. In the interest of protecting it from BSL and further mis identification to the general public and DOL newbies it's not a good idea to imply the dog is pure when they're not. It also gives us a better indication of the dogs growth rate and potential size in order to answer your questions more adequately

[Sharna3]

Because your sig implies that he is pure and that is incorrect. The Mastiff is such a mislabelled breed already. In the interest of protecting it from BSL and further mis identification to the general public and DOL newbies it's not a good idea to imply the dog is pure when they're not. It also gives us a better indication of the dogs growth rate and potential size in order to answer your questions more adequately

I do apologise. I have updated my sig.

[Danois]

I waited until at least 18 months with my giant breed - I am comfortable with this age as it also ties in with the minimum age for breeding giants.

With a cross breed - I would not be so concerned about that - you're not aiming for a standard or type. 6 months is fine. Don't forget too that costs go up for desexing the more the dog weighs too.

Health pros and cons aside, the main thing to consider is how willing you are to deal with an entire male weighing in excess of 50kg - not only his own behaviour but also how other dogs react and respond to him as he is entire male.

I am desexing my boy at 22 months this week as he has been getting a hard time from other dogs and I do not want him developing any behavioural issues as a result of this. Am also over the entire male dog smell.

[Nekhbet]

I wouldnt until he has done most of his growing, 18months - 2 years.

you're not aiming for a standard or type.

Errr your aiming for a healthy dog - so what only purebreeds deserve to grow to their full potential? Cross or not he's still a very large dog and I would wait. Vets dont necessarily provide an unbiased view on this by the way

[Black Bronson]

I waited until at least 18 months with my giant breed - I am comfortable with this age as it also ties in with the minimum age for breeding giants.

With a cross breed - I would not be so concerned about that - you're not aiming for a standard or type. 6 months is fine. Don't forget too that costs go up for desexing the more the dog weighs too.

Health pros and cons aside, the main thing to consider is how willing you are to deal with an entire male weighing in excess of 50kg - not only his own behaviour but also how other dogs react and respond to him as he is entire male.

I am desexing my boy at 22 months this week as he has been getting a hard time from other dogs and I do not want him developing any behavioural issues as a result of this. Am also over the entire male dog smell.

This behavioural perception of entire males is blown out of all proportion. The only time that a genuine issue can develop with entire males is in the presence of a bitch in season..........other than that, there is no difference. Desexing isn't a quick fix for a lack of training and in many cases, desexing and specialised training occur at the same time and the desexing get's the recognition for the improvement that the training created too often. Many a time I have seen fear aggressive dogs worsen after desexing and is not the ultimate fix over a proper training schedule for behavioural issues.

[Sharna3]

I wouldnt until he has done most of his growing, 18months - 2 years.

you're not aiming for a standard or type.

Errr your aiming for a healthy dog - so what only purebreeds deserve to grow to their full potential? Cross or not he's still a very large dog and I would wait. Vets dont necessarily provide an unbiased view on this by the way

Thank you Nekhbet I was thinking 18mths from what I've read/been told. And I agree, he might have crossed breeds in him but he's still mostly eng mastiff and therefore a giant breed.... and just cause he isn't pure doesn't mean I shouldn't do the best for him. He deserves the best I can do in my opinion!

I don't think my vet is biased at all - I just think they need to advise on sooo many breeds of dog its not fair to expect them to be an expert on breeds that aren't nec mainstream, ie labradors, fox terriers.. if you know what I mean. So would rather ask owner breeders, even if Harley isn't 100% pure ... he's still 70% and that means big!

[Danois]

I wouldnt until he has done most of his growing, 18months - 2 years.

you're not aiming for a standard or type.

Errr your aiming for a healthy dog - so what only purebreeds deserve to grow to their full potential? Cross or not he's still a very large dog and I would wait. Vets dont necessarily provide an unbiased view on this by the way

You're putting words in my mouth!

The OP is not aiming for a standard or type as it is a cross breed - therefore there is no way of knowing what the mature dog is supposed to look like.

Black Bronson - You put up an interesting argument and talk about the "only genuine reason" - can you point me to any studies/ literature about this? It goes against what I have been told by people very experienced in dog behaviour so interested to learn more.

[Black Bronson]

I wouldnt until he has done most of his growing, 18months - 2 years.

you're not aiming for a standard or type.

Errr your aiming for a healthy dog - so what only purebreeds deserve to grow to their full potential? Cross or not he's still a very large dog and I would wait. Vets dont necessarily provide an unbiased view on this by the way

You're putting words in my mouth!

The OP is not aiming for a standard or type as it is a cross breed - therefore there is no way of knowing what the mature dog is supposed to look like.

Black Bronson - You put up an interesting argument and talk about the "only genuine reason" - can you point me to any studies/ literature about this? It goes against what I have been told by people very experienced in dog behaviour so interested to learn more.

I will try and find some studies, there are a quite a few, but also from my own experiences with entire males over the years mostly GSD's, I have never encounted any "entire male behaviour" issues that you commonly hear about. I have been involved with several fear aggressive GSD's that were desexed to supposedly cure the problem that made them more unpredictable in their aggression, definitely didn't fix it without specialised training. If a dog is well obedience trained entire or desexed IMO makes no difference to their behaviour or controlability. Many believe that entire males will fight........I know that with GSD's a dominant bitch will fight the boys, far worse than entire males working out who's boss???. Without training, I am yet to see a major behavioral issue corrected by soley desexing alone. I would be interested to hear from others who perhaps have???

Edited May 9, 2010 by Black Bronson

[Staranais]

Hello all,

I have an English Mastiff male pup, we plan on getting him desexed. Our vet said 6mths but then someone told me that for giant and large breeds you should wait longer.

Does anyone have any advice on this - I know the vet is knowledgeable but in all fairness to them, they can't be expected to be experts on dog breeds when they need to know a bit about all animals!! So would like advice from current/past G/LRG breed owners on this one :-)

I would wait longer. I would personally prefer to desex a giant breed after they have finished growing (no sooner than 18 months), especially since he is a male (there are benefits associated with neutering a female early, not with males).

Like Black Bronson says, you could vasectomise at 6 months old to prevent puppies.

[Nekhbet]

therefore there is no way of knowing what the mature dog is supposed to look like.

it's not about a look, its about overal muscular and skeletal structure, who cares what shape the dog ultimately is. Testosterone has its place in the growth of males especially those that need to grow slowly over a longer period of time.

If a dog has too much testosterone then there will be behavioral issues. I recommended desexing in one young dog of med breed because his testes were huge (too much so for his age) and he was territorially aggressive to anything and everything, just oozed macho meathead attitude. Desexed *poof* aggression level plummeted.

[Diva]

If you have the choice I'd wait until the growth plates in the long bones have closed, for which 18 months should be fine.

[furballs]

OP you may want to have a read of the "Desexing Debate" thread in the general section, there is quite a bit of useful information regarding pros and cons of desexing.

[Sharna3]

Thank you everyone, I knew that I would get some great advice from DOLers, we aren't too worried about him accidentally fathering pups = there are no entire females he'll be around and he's in a very secure yard and only out and about with us. Definitely happy to wait and prefer to do what's right for him.

Thanks again

[jacqui835]

I wouldnt until he has done most of his growing, 18months - 2 years.

you're not aiming for a standard or type.

Errr your aiming for a healthy dog - so what only purebreeds deserve to grow to their full potential? Cross or not he's still a very large dog and I would wait. Vets dont necessarily provide an unbiased view on this by the way

You're putting words in my mouth!

The OP is not aiming for a standard or type as it is a cross breed - therefore there is no way of knowing what the mature dog is supposed to look like.

Black Bronson - You put up an interesting argument and talk about the "only genuine reason" - can you point me to any studies/ literature about this? It goes against what I have been told by people very experienced in dog behaviour so interested to learn more.

I will try and find some studies, there are a quite a few, but also from my own experiences with entire males over the years mostly GSD's, I have never encounted any "entire male behaviour" issues that you commonly hear about. I have been involved with several fear aggressive GSD's that were desexed to supposedly cure the problem that made them more unpredictable in their aggression, definitely didn't fix it without specialised training. If a dog is well obedience trained entire or desexed IMO makes no difference to their behaviour or controlability. Many believe that entire males will fight........I know that with GSD's a dominant bitch will fight the boys, far worse than entire males working out who's boss???. Without training, I am yet to see a major behavioral issue corrected by soley desexing alone. I would be interested to hear from others who perhaps have???

I have a huge male doberman x rottie (almost 50kg now) who I have no plans to either desex or breed from. I would tend to agree that desexing is unlikely to resolve any problems by itself, but that said, there was a guy down the park who used to own a swf male. Every day, he would let it off the lead and it ran far into the distance - like could barely see it on the horizon if at all, and he had no way to get it to come back. I thought it was crazy, but he claimed that because it was small it didn't matter. That's beside the point though. At about 4 years old, he got his dog desexed. He still didn't do any training with the dog and it still didn't listen to him, but from then on when we saw them at the park, the swf dog stayed much much closer to him. In this instance, I would struggle to identify anything else that could have been responsible for this change. The dog was no better behaved, but it no longer wanted to roam so arguably, desexing alone removed that issue for him.

For the OP as well, so that you understand, a vasectomy will not change your dog in any way except remove his ability to have children. He will retain his sex drive etc, so certainly an option, but it would depend on what your reasons were for wanting to desex in the first place.