"dog Whispering" Skills

[persephone]

What's the difference between thinking like an animal and having a good eye for detail or patterns, for example?

Hmm...

I cannot think of a way to explain it ...but, think of it a bit like a working sheepdog.

There is a litter of pups born..

as they age, they are tested on sheep. Some immediately start 'setting' the sheep..and if a sheep moves, their little legs automatically carry them in the direction needed to stop the sheep escaping...

Thse pups react immediately to the sheep's movement/bodylanguage. they have not seen sheep before- they are too young to have had training.

They just KNOW.

Another pup walks around, makes a half-hearted attempt to go up to the sheep..then sits & watches ... this pup may well be a useful dog , with lots more exposure, with 'set up' opportunities to practise/discover skills and strategies..but may never be a dog on which you can rely- as it does NOT have that innate quality of understanding and instinctively reacting correctly!

This dog will need to be commanded- to be guided into doing what is needed.

Now- To me, a simplistic view from someone who has not read dog psych books/watched training videos or attended classes ..... the above kind of does express what I think- that the TRUE 'whisperers' (most of whom are never in the public eye ) are just born that way. Their brains are configured in whichever way as to enable them to be hyper sensitive to the behaviours/and thoughts of their given animal...and then to respond in a way the animal instinctively understands, whilst staying relaxed and open....

Edited May 8, 2010 by persephone

[Aidan3]

Hehe, I was once effusively praised for my "horse whispering skills" - I can't even ride! I just understand reinforcement really well, the observers did not.

[mumof3]

Experience, good observational skills(to read the animal, the environment, the owners, everything), education / training, the ability to be an authoritative, consistent, reliable, trustworthy, assertive leader without resorting to aggression, and genuine love of the species. The very best and most famous "whisperers" are also excellent at communicating with people and may have excellent marketing skills to boot. Pat Parelli comes to mind in horses, who has excellent skills, both as a horseman, a businessman and a marketer.

I was called a horse whisperer once when I rescued a brumby foal of about 6 months without a rope. It was perishing next to the body of its mother and I was able to get it to follow me (and the horse I was riding) to water, where it stayed for about 3 days, just drinking). I didn't use any ropes. Everyone started calling me Monty, and they called the horse whatever that horse was called in that movie (can't remember), but I said it was a load of bull and I renamed it Lucky, then it got run over by a truck 6 months later - but it lived)

For someone to make a living out of training animals, for other people, they really need to be good at observing and communicating with both the animals and their owners. There are lots of talented animal people out there who simply don't have the people skills. I know one very capable and shy horseman. I went to a working dog school once with one of Australia's leading trainers, and found he couldn't talk to a group of people. A much less experienced man gave a much better school and we learnt alot more.

[bedazzledx2]

:laugh: ;)

Hehe, I was once effusively praised for my "horse whispering skills" - I can't even ride! I just understand reinforcement really well, the observers did not.

[Little Gifts]

I am quite jealous of this kind of understanding some people have with animals, like they speak the same language. There used to be a local guy in my little town who could turn a wild bird into a pet within a couple of hours. We ended up using him with a galah that had been injured as a chick and couldn't be released back into the wild. It went to a fantastic new home where it adored its human companion.

And an ex of mine had a thing with stray cats. He was a chinese guy and would catch all these strays behind the restraurants he worked at. He would catch them with little effort and fuss (certainly no scratches from the cats) and just hold them against his chest till they stopped struggling. Most ended up going home with him or other people he worked with after he had 'tamed' them. I saw him do it dozens of times. I also saw him stop a guard dog from launching an attack on him one day. Animals just acted differently around him like he wasn't a threat. Mind you he was a arsehole as a boyfriend!

[WoofnHoof]

How do you tell if someone is thinking like an animal? I was reading one of Temple Grandin's books and she was describing how she would notice things animals noticed because she would think like them. I don't think like an animal the way she does in the slightest, but I still notice a lot of the things she mentions because I watch where animals are looking. What's the difference between thinking like an animal and having a good eye for detail or patterns, for example?

I always liked watching Kelly Marks on tv. Whatever that X factor that some people have with animals is, she definitely has it. It impressed me that she could go from all gentle, careful desensitisation and counter conditioning to giving the horse a boot with the same animal and just overcome some residual hangup the horse had. How did she know when it was appropriate to switch tactics so suddenly? She never messed around trying things that didn't work. She would change her approach quite wildly for different horses without any real explanation and it always worked.

IMO there isn't much difference, it is essentially the same thing, animals notice details and patterns therefore if your mind works that way you are going to be more in tune with the natural thought patterns of animals. I think of it as being on a similar wavelength, some people are on a similar wavelength to animals and so they are better able to utilise the basic skills most of us have to learn.

Temple Grandin is autistic and autism exists on a spectrum from extreme to pretty much 'normal' so it's realistic to expect that some of those traits that exist in autistic individuals (ie eye for detail etc) also exist in people in the 'normal' range (whatever that is lol). You may find it interesting to know that according to one study people who own dogs are actually less able to recognise facial emotions in people (this is an autistic trait), it was only a small difference but it was signficant. Link to abstract

It's not whispering or even listening it's probably more instinctive than that

[Jed]

I think, in the context Corvus means (and not pet psychics/mediums etc) it is about being able to to read the animal - whether it is fearful, confident, happy,unhappy, willing, etc, and knowing what action to take in a particular situation - whether to advance, retreat, reassure, encourage, discourage, etc, depending on the given situation and to be able to do it quickly enough for it to be effective. It's also about having empathy with the animal/s, and developing rapport with each one - via reading them and sending back appropriate signals

It's an instinctive talent, which can be honed through exposure and experience.

[persephone]

It's an instinctive talent, which can be honed through exposure and experience.

jed has said it all in one sentence !

I hate people who can be so succinct

Edited May 9, 2010 by persephone

[Jed]

It's an instinctive talent, which can be honed through exposure and experience.

jed has said it all in one sentence !

I hate people who can be so succinct :rofl:

Oh, bugger

Sorry

I've seen a few "horse whisperers" in action - both in public demonstrations, and from knowing people who actually are horse whisperers, but don't give demos.

That's about reading the horse, and taking the right steps at the right time. Doing that gives the horse enormous confidence, particularly young horses, and they will then do what you want, because you are putting yourself into the right position to say "go forward", "go back", "come here" and so on. Horses are naturally more suspicious than dogs, and once you win them, you have them and they just naturally do what you want - once you can give them reassurance that you are a good leader and you can read them.

Some people who promote themselves as horse whisperers aren't at all, they are frauds.

And I don't think you can learn how to be a horse whisperer - I've known people go to heaps of classes and schools with real horse whisperers, and they still didn't get it.

Not sure about dog whisperers. Dogs are, I think, more complex than horses, although horses are reasonably complex. Horses seem to have more direct and immediate thought processes, if that makes sense. Maybe horses are driven by instinct more, and dogs more by thought processes.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Jed

[persephone]

Some people who promote themselves as horse whisperers aren't at all, they are frauds.

Indeed! I believe that there are many who try & cash in.... while the ones with the gift/talent may not ever be seen publicly

Edited May 9, 2010 by persephone

[Nekhbet]

are we talking commercial tripe or actual 'whisperers'

people who are confident, calm, able to communicate with the dog on its own level, pick up and understand how the dog is feeling WITHOUT BIAS or BS. If you are a person who is afraid or uncertain you will not do well. When I was still in my early teens I did some work experience at the RSPCA, and there was a dog on death row for attacking a person. It looked so frightened so I cracked open the door a little and got down, it was OK and I inched my way in until it crawled into my lap. Staff found me on the floor of the pen with this dog laying quietly in my lap, they were horrified. Poor dog was just frightened and when I didnt show fear or stress it settled and accepted a final bit of love. Basic understanding and reading a dog is not hard they show their emotions so clearly most of us just dont take the proper time to read them.

Dogs are not as complicated as we make them out. I think these days we could all be more like the old time whisperers if we spent more time with our animals and simply paid attention to what they do and we do.

[persephone]

I am not talking about those who are in the public eye- rather people from all walks of life who do have the skills

[corvus]

Thanks everyone.

We're talking about people you think are especially good with animals, whether they are in the public eye or not.

Thanks for the abstract, WnH. Very interesting!

I think that people with good animal skills tend to be more flexible. I've seen a lot of dog trainers that have a few methods they prefer and just keep applying them and if it doesn't work they just kind of apply them harder. It's pretty cool to see behaviourists apply different things with different animals and rarely have to try something else because their first approach is usually effective.

[mumof3]

I wonder how a person becomes a "behaviourist", or even a "qualified" dog trainer. What are the qualifications?

[Kirty]

I definitely believe some people have a special gift when it comes to animals. I have seen it myself twice, both times with horses. One was an equine dentist who was attempting to file the teeth of a very head-shy horse. The horse was so frightened, but he just did this very slow, gentle massage on the horses head while talking to it, and the horse instantly calmed down and allowed his teeth to be done.

The second time was with a horse I owned. I had bought him sight unseen, he was supposed to be a 2yo Clydie cross but turned out to be a 5yo Brumby! He was completely unhandled and quite dangerous. He would strike out with his front legs at random and it took us weeks to get the way-too-small halter off him (which I suspect was put on in a cattle crush because there was no way you could get near him). Anyway, I couldn't bear to send him to the doggers so I advertised him warts and all. A lovely couple came to get him. The man walked into the yard, talking to Charlie and got a halter on him within 2 mins! He then put a lead rope on and walked him onto the float!! My jaw was on the floor! LOL!