Food Rewards - I Am Confused

[Black Bronson]

I too work on myself as a reward for the dog. Food and toys are involved sometimes, ultimately its attention from me they want, I treat the rest as icing on the cake

I say stick with what you know.

As for service dogs, considering they dont live with their handlers and need to be able to handed over to another person at another point you want something else to be the focus of their reward. Otherwise hand it over to another handler and get what my dogs do - pfffft no That and the work they do like bitework HAS to be highly rewarding in the event itself otherwise they wouldnt do it or lose enthusiasm over time.

ETA food doesnt mean motivation or enthusiasm in a dog moreso then praise. I see a lot of owners really unenthusiastic or being just plain boring so we have to introduce something else, they're just so low value in their demeanour not because the dog doesnt see the value. I would like to actually see a lot more owner-reward based being encouraged so people get a little more motivated

Perhaps working dogs have a more natural handler responsiveness than others, but I totally agree with Nekhbet's advice. Training my 11 week old puppy at the moment, we have a great sit, drop a nice little focused heel and recall as far as 11 week old's go motivated with a command, release word and play as the reward, no food and me as the toy. It's about creating a bond with the puppy I believe is the greatest motivator. We are a huge toy for a puppy, we have a voice of varing pitches and dynamics, hands, feet and body language to raise a puppy's excitement level to work for you. We will use some food at some stage I am sure, and will definitely use toys, (bite sleeve one day), but you can definitely motivate a puppy very successfully with praise, affection, funny body language and voice. The pic is a sit awaiting a release word to play at 8 weeks old

Edited May 11, 2010 by Black Bronson

[Kavik]

I encourage anyone who cares to listen to me to give carrying food around a try. I never go anywhere with the dogs without my treat pouch and a tug toy (and a clicker) and I wouldn't have it any other way. We even ended up buying a second treat pouch so OH could have one as well. The thing is, once you are in the habit of having these big reinforcers on you, you automatically become more interesting to your dog by virtue of the fact that you reward them a lot, and thus you become less dependent on the very rewards you're carrying. But as long as you have them you tend to use them, and I think that is good because it's all money in the bank. It pays to be realistic about what your dog finds rewarding and USE it. It is SO much easier to handle distractions and rewards in the enviornment out of your control if you have a good reward history with your dog in the first place. I don't think it ever occurs to my dogs that I might not have anything worth their while on me. The odd times when I have forgotten to refill the treat pouch or don't have it on me have not resulted in all our training coming to nothing. Most of training is forming good habits. Habits don't die easily.

This is one time I agree with you The only thing you forgot to mention is that it is also FUN!

[Henrietta]

^ It is fun. I even love preparing treats and experimenting with them. OMG, I am sad.

But it is great once you get used to it, second nature really.

I'm also constantly working on behaviour modification, so I need to have the stuff that is highly reinforcing to my dog right there, ready for anything. I don't constantly use the most highly reinforcing stuff if it isn't necessary and I do go on a variable rewards schedule with things my dog knows and places she is comfortable with. I do look quite funny when I leave the house with all my gear.

If I had to rely on just my praise with my current dog, I would have given up long ago. My relationship is so much better with her now that I understand how to communicate with her and how to motivate her. She now understands that I equal good stuff. And as time goes on, social approval/praise is getting higher up in value and I attribute that to our improved relationship.

But every dog and trainer is different.

EFS

Edited May 11, 2010 by Emm

[4Kelpies]

Hi Mumof3. I have working dogs too and would never think of using food when training on stock. My dogs would never look away from the sheep to even notice that I was offering food. I find that sheep are the ultimate reward for my dogs and I have used them when teaching other behaviours. After initially teaching the heel position (with food) I have taught my dogs to walk beside me off lead when taking them to the sheep paddock. If the dogs go in front of me I immediately stop and we go no further until the dog returns to my side. Walking on lead with no distraction from sheep is easy in comparison. Also when I used to do agility, leaving a dog on a stay while I did a lead out was no problem with a dog that had been taught to wait until sent on a cast with sheep.

Even with my working dogs I have taught basic commands such as sit, drop, stay, shake hands etc. using food. Away from sheep, food is the next best reward to my dogs. Food doesn't have to be a bribe or a lure. It is a very effective tool. It makes training quick, effective and as Kavik has said fun for dog and handler. Why not use a tool that has all of these?

I once took a puppy to a sheep dog training school (as an observer as my pup was a baby) and was giving heaps of rewards for attention, sits etc. One of the farmers there tended to scoff until I pointed out that my pup was working for her breakfast while his pups had all been given their food for nothing. The same person has since commented at yard trials on how well mannered my dogs are and what good control I have over them.

You won't have to carry food all the time, but it is good to keep up the dog's attention and enthusiasm with intermittent rewards. It has probably been weeks since I have given my dogs treats but they would have obeyed me thousands of times since. They have developed the habit of co operating with me and won't suddenly down tools and stop listening to me if they don't get treats. If I was about to teach something new I would certainly get out the food pouch and make our training sessions as enjoyable as I can..