Just love my dogs! Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Hi All I have a 16 month old Golden Retriever who is hopeless as coming back to us. We have tried using treats but (can you believe it) she doesn't respond to treats! She hasn't had much off lead experience because she won't return to us and if there are other dogs or small children around, she'll just go running up to them because she's so excited! Has anyone got any ideas? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Hi AllI have a 16 month old Golden Retriever who is hopeless as coming back to us. We have tried using treats but (can you believe it) she doesn't respond to treats! She hasn't had much off lead experience because she won't return to us and if there are other dogs or small children around, she'll just go running up to them because she's so excited! Has anyone got any ideas? Thanks Does she look at you if you clap, whistle or call her name?? If she does as soon as she looks at you, wave your arms like crazy and call her name while spinning around and running away from her - worked like a charm for some of the people at our club who had trouble with recalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 Hi AllI have a 16 month old Golden Retriever who is hopeless as coming back to us. We have tried using treats but (can you believe it) she doesn't respond to treats! She hasn't had much off lead experience because she won't return to us and if there are other dogs or small children around, she'll just go running up to them because she's so excited! Has anyone got any ideas? Thanks Does she look at you if you clap, whistle or call her name?? If she does as soon as she looks at you, wave your arms like crazy and call her name while spinning around and running away from her - worked like a charm for some of the people at our club who had trouble with recalls. Lol! I'll give it a go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 We have tried using treats but (can you believe it) she doesn't respond to treats! Can you describe how you tried to use treats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 We have tried using treats but (can you believe it) she doesn't respond to treats! Can you describe how you tried to use treats? When she runs off, I call her name and pull out a treat (making a rustling noise) but she just keeps on running. She's not food orientated (my Lab is!), which is unusual for Goldens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 (edited) There seem to be quite a few of us Goldie owners who have trouble with recall!! My dog loves treats and will recall 100% of the time .... except when she sees a bird under her nose/food on the ground/plane-vapour trail (dont ask ). I only recently realised that it was as big a problem as it is (she is ball obssessed so I hadnt noticed until we stopped ball throwing for a bit ) and I am furiously working on it now. I asked a similar question in the training forum and got some great advice. Here is the link. Today I started training her to WAIT til I have thrown her ball and give her the signal to "go get it". I think that, as was suggested to me, a big part of her problem is bolting off so I hope this will assist in that. Good luck, I know how stressful it is! Edited May 7, 2010 by ✽deelee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 There seem to be quite a few of us Goldie owners who have trouble with recall!! My dog loves treats and will recall 100% of the time .... except when she sees a bird under her nose/food on the ground/plane-vapour trail (dont ask ). I only recently realised that it was a problem (she is ball obssessed so I hadnt noticed until we stopped ball throwing for a bit ) I am furiously working on it now. I asked a similar question in the training forum and got some great advice. Here is the link. Today I started training her to WAIT til I have thrown her ball and give her the signal to "go get it". I think that, as was suggested to me, her problem is bolting off so I figure this will assist in that. Good luck, I know how stressful it is! Thanks Deelee. I'm reading it now. Holly has no fear. She'll run away from us and not even turn around to see where we are My husband ends up chasing after her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Holly has no fear. She'll run away from us and not even turn around to see where we are My husband ends up chasing after her! Ahh know that feeling!!! Honey is much the same, life is just so wonderful to her! She is my first goldie and I am finding that its a slow conditioning process. Anecdotally, they seem to be eager to please but a bit slower on the uptake than say labs. I am seeing signs of improvement but I expect it to be a looooong time before I am completely happy with her reliability. Til then I am going to safe walking areas, practising eternal vigilance and putting her onlead at the first indication of her drive kicking in (her ears are VERY obvious !). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 Holly has no fear. She'll run away from us and not even turn around to see where we are My husband ends up chasing after her! Ahh know that feeling!!! Honey is much the same, life is just so wonderful to her! She is my first goldie and I am finding that its a slow conditioning process. Anecdotally, they seem to be eager to please but a bit slower on the uptake than say labs. I am seeing signs of improvement but I expect it to be a looooong time before I am completely happy with her reliability. Til then I am going to safe walking areas, practising eternal vigilance and putting her onlead at the first indication of her drive kicking in (her ears are VERY obvious !). For Holly. Her dead give-a-way is her bum. She wags her tail and her bum when she's up to no good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I know one GR puppy I could probably get anytime I wanted by running past him and waving a big tug rope. He loves food but he also loves chasing things and games of tug. Sometimes it is very difficult to leave the park with this puppy attached to the end of my dog's lead. Conditioning with games or treats is the way to go. Get the DVD, it makes it very simple to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowenhart Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I'd try it on a longish leash first. So dog is looking elsewhere, call her name and give another command like "here". Tug her towards you and feed her. Then just let her look around and see the world and then do it again. Then get a much longer lead (flexi lead, rope tied to the leash) and do the same - let her wander, call, say "here" and tug the leash (if needed) to bring her to you. Feed (and praise) when she gets close enough. She has to know that coming when you say "here" is beneficial. To start off with only use that command when you are going to feed/praise her. When she's reacting well to it then you can start calling her in from zoomies or barking. Never punish her for coming back to you, even if she was misbehaving beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie_a1 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Maybe also if you post this in the training forum some of the professional trainers will help you out too. I'll have to read this thread take some hints haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 We have tried using treats but (can you believe it) she doesn't respond to treats! Can you describe how you tried to use treats? When she runs off, I call her name and pull out a treat (making a rustling noise) but she just keeps on running. She's not food orientated (my Lab is!), which is unusual for Goldens OK, I think a lot of people might be making this mistake. That's what we might call a "bribe", or if we're being really kind a "lure" The idea is not to try to entice the dog back with a food treat, but to condition a behavioural response using positive reinforcement. So we start off in a low-distraction environment, maybe your hallway or living room, and we just call the dog back and forth between two or more people, giving a treat each time to reinforce this fairly predictable response. If no helper is available, call your dog then toss the treat to get him away from you so you can call him again. Then we take it outside, just in the back yard. No other dogs around. Build it up nice and strong in these low-distraction environments. Don't reinforce the slowest responses, the ones where he takes a while to respond or dawdles. We want fast responses, and fast returns. We might even take a couple of steps back when he's close to encourage this, or toss the food treat behind us. When we're consistently getting fast responses we might start to artificially add distractions in controlled set-ups. So we might have someone hold some food in their hand, not letting the dog get it, while we recall them past the helper. Or have someone holding a ball. The idea is that we set the dog up for success, if he doesn't succeed we have nothing to reinforce and reinforcement is what builds the behaviour, it is vital to conditioning. When he is really good at recalling past set-up, controlled distractions where we can ensure that he is responding as we want, then we can introduce a long-line (tracking leash) and take him places where we can work on more difficult recalls. Again, keep setting him up for success. If you aren't at least 80% sure that he will come back, don't call him. That's what the long-line is for. If you take him to the dog beach or park, don't have him on the long-leash, and don't expect to call him either, or at least not while he is distracted. Wait until he is calm or looking for you and your probability of success is above 80%. I hope that helps. Hopefully you can see there is an important distinction between bribing and reinforcing a dog with food. The aim is always to condition a response and it doesn't happen overnight. All [healthy] dogs are food motivated, or they die. It's not quite that black and white, but if you really have any food motivation problems, write in with details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 This method for using food is also very effective, probably a bit simpler with clearer instructions that what I have offered above: http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html Just remember, just because your dog ignores food while she is running off to play with other dogs and kids doesn't mean that food isn't a reinforcer (it's just less exciting than other dogs and kids, this does not mean we can't build a reliable recall away from those things with food) so you can include food in Step 2 of Recall Redux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 (edited) As she runs off for some happy interaction with other dogs & children....that's what I'd offer her to come back. Crouch down low....so you're on a height level with dogs & kids....hold out your arms beside you. And call her, with warmth in your voice. When (let's hope!) she comes running into your arms, give her a big playful cuddle. Exactly what she was looking for in heading so enthusiastically to the dogs & kids. Silly as it sounds....if she runs away, don't chase her. If the above doesn't work on an urgent occasion, hide behind a tree & make high pitched squeally noises. (In urgent situations, some people lie face down on the ground & do it!). Novelty & curiosity tends to bring the dog back. Edited May 7, 2010 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labsrule Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 As she runs off for some happy interaction with other dogs & children....that's what I'd offer her to come back.Crouch down low....so you're on a height level with dogs & kids....hold out your arms beside you. And call her, with warmth in your voice. When (let's hope!) she comes running into your arms, give her a big playful cuddle. Exactly what she was looking for in heading so enthusiastically to the dogs & kids. Silly as it sounds....if she runs away, don't chase her. If the above doesn't work on an urgent occasion, hide behind a tree & make high pitched squeally noises. (In urgent situations, some people lie face down on the ground & do it!). Novelty & curiosity tends to bring the dog back. Maybe I should have employed this tactic when my 7mth lab pup found (or maybe killed ) a freshly dead LARGE rat :D on our walk yesterday and took off with his prize his first ever failed recall He did however come back after much cajoling (threatening ) and I had to apply pressure to either side of his muzzle to make him release, the still intact (thank god) dead rat Will file this tactic away in the memory banks, hopefully I won't ever have to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 (edited) Will file this tactic away in the memory banks, hopefully I won't ever have to use it. Husband of a friend had a little JRX that slipped his lead on a walk beside a busy road. Little dog thought it was a great chasey game....recall forgotten as he danced around, perilously close to the traffic. In desperation , the man lay face down doing the squeally noises act. Back came the dog, sniffing curiously at the back of his head. Got grabbed. Bloke said motorists must have thought he was insane. Obviously a desperation tactic....when all else fails in an urgent situation. I doubt very much anything would bring back a young lab taking off with his prey of a dead rat. Only maybe waving a BIGGER dead rat??? Edited May 8, 2010 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just love my dogs! Posted May 8, 2010 Author Share Posted May 8, 2010 I doubt very much anything would bring back a young lab taking off with his prey of a dead rat. Only maybe waving a BIGGER dead rat??? Lol! Thanks for all these great suggestions. Now it's time to try them out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 (edited) There are lots of way to work for and attain a reliable recall. The "best" way is what works with the dog, taking into account individuality; prior experiences the dog has had; the intensity of distraction; etc. There is no "one-way" or "best-way" IMO. It's a matter of combinations/alternatives that suit the situation and knowing the dog. One thing that is and IMO should be a constant and that is a reward (whether it is a reward or not depends on the dog's perception of it at that given moment) at the end. But it is not the ONLY factor. Foundation training and general interactions and respect at home (leadership) is a big part of it as well. Edited May 8, 2010 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 (edited) . Now it's time to try them out! You must be psychic! I was just at the shops next to a busy road.....& really had to try one out. Lady carrying an elderly JR girl (on a lead). She put the girl down briefly to pick something off a display. JR girl started to wander towards the road. Someone yelled...'Your dog's getting away!' Lady turned, got a fright & started to chase her. Which spooked the JR girl & she started to run, too...towards the road. I was up the footpath a bit. So I crouched down, arms open & said, 'Come on , darling!' Thank god she ran into my arms. Edited May 8, 2010 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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