Dog Shows

[yarracully]

How come it has changed though? We were ALWAYS taught - ask before you touch (and that applied to many things, not just people's pets). Exactly WHEN did common sense fly completely out the window? Exactly WHEN did people stop respecting other people's 'property'?

I don't know the answer to "WHEN" but I do believe, whether people have a problem with allowing their children to uninvitedly (wrd?) pat their pets or not, that we need to start educating them to ask. And by educating them, perhaps their parents will begin to learn as well.

In my view it changed at about the time the do gooders started the "Can't discipline your children" routine. I can well remember before that occured that if an adult told you to jump you jumped. Now it seems if you are asked not to do something you just tell them to clear off (slightly different wording but you get the drift).

Now I might be old fashioned but when I was growing up if I stepped out of line I got a belting from my father. After the first one he only had to threaten it. But you learnt to behave and respect others. To be honest now I look back and thank him for doing it.

[Bisart Dobes]

Me - when I was 3 years old I made the front page of the paper because I went missing at a Royal Show - after my poor mother and officials searching for me for god knows how long I was found curled up sound asleep in a show bench with a St Bernard - my parents bred Labs and Weis - so not even our group :D. My poor mum.

That is gorgeous But Yes! Your poor Mum

Yes, just shows how everything has changed over the years - they left me there until I woke up as well, so obviously the ST breeders weren't worried - the photo was of me curled up still asleep with the dog - so instead of grabbing me and screaming whatever - they all thought what a great photo op and went and found the paper photographer . Will have to see if I can get mum to scan the photo and email it to me - I'm sure she's got it tucked away somewhere.

Bring back the olden days !!!

[Earthdog]

Hope she can find it, Sounds priceless!

[Angelina]

How come it has changed though? We were ALWAYS taught - ask before you touch (and that applied to many things, not just people's pets). Exactly WHEN did common sense fly completely out the window? Exactly WHEN did people stop respecting other people's 'property'?

I don't know the answer to "WHEN" but I do believe, whether people have a problem with allowing their children to uninvitedly (wrd?) pat their pets or not, that we need to start educating them to ask. And by educating them, perhaps their parents will begin to learn as well.

In my view it changed at about the time the do gooders started the "Can't discipline your children" routine. I can well remember before that occured that if an adult told you to jump you jumped. Now it seems if you are asked not to do something you just tell them to clear off (slightly different wording but you get the drift).

Now I might be old fashioned but when I was growing up if I stepped out of line I got a belting from my father. After the first one he only had to threaten it. But you learnt to behave and respect others. To be honest now I look back and thank him for doing it.

Oh Please, there have been shits of kids and bad parents for generations and generations

[Darkrai]

I know the family your talking about Aziah... They made it down to the non-sporters still poking fingers in crate!!!

I think somepeople have the mentality that casue they are in puppy pens etc that they can pick them up kinda like a pet shop

or the kids with sticky gunky hands trying to touch long coated dogs waiting to go in the ring - But hey I used to be one of those kids too!! :D

[OSoSwift]

I have never really had a problem with the GP at shows, but hvaing Dobes only those really interested wanted a pat an 99% asked if they could.

My most memorable moment involved a VERY well know exhibitor of a different breed to mine.

I had my Dobe in her crate and was helping a friend with her dogs.

I heard my dog going off, barking/growling etc. I did not like her making noise, especially for no reason, so looked over to see what was going on. This particular person had their fingers stuck in her crate and were leaning over staring at her, while poking fingers at her soft toy.

I told them to stop as she was not happy. He said oh her tail is wagging she is just pretending! She was pissed off and I told him to stop again. He wouldn't. Some other showies were looking on disgusted and quite convinced he was an idiot.

I then said to him oh well when she bites you don't come whinging to me as I have warned you and asked you to stop twice.

He laughed at me and told me there was no way MY dog would HIM (like he was a god or something) then thankfully proceeded to bugger off somewhere else.

These two you girls who were standing nearby told me they were quite shocked at how stupid he was.

I would have been more than happy to get her out ,when I wasn't busy, for a cuddle as she would of loved it, but we had travelled a lot over the days before, she had been in 3 shows in two days and the poor girl just wanted her sleep, and I was busy.

It really annoyed me.

I have only been to the Royal once and my dog was crated on her bench, I got her out for a little bit, she got some pats, when I or she had had enough she went into her crate for a snooze - all good.

[Amika]

I had asked this child about 5 times to keep his fingers to himself. I had asked his father to ask his child to keep his fingers to himself and from sheer frustration, the next time the fingers appeared in the line of my brush.....they wore it.

No, I'm not proud of my actions. Yes, I realise I could have opened up a whole world of trouble for myself. No, I didn't think at the time, it happened very quickly. MAYBE I would do it again if the circumstances were the same.....I'm not sure.

because this is not about being at dog shows, but it is about aberrant behaviour from children and parents doing nothing about it. When I was a kid (way back before all of these nanny type laws and people suing for the sheer money making value suing gets them) there was a neighbour who lived across the road. This was also back in the days when everyone in the street was your "neighbour" and you knew them and their kids.

The child of this neighbour was a real brat of a kid and the parents never did a thing to stop her. Us kids used to hate it when she came over to 'play' because she was a snivelling, whiney, attention seeker and simply, no fun. My Dad is outside chatting with this child's parent and the child kept hitting him in the stomach. Dad told her several times not to do it. Child's father did nothing. Next time, Dad says "you do that to me one more time and I'm going to pull your hair". Child hits him one more time so Dad gave her hair a good yank. Child goes off crying. Father of child does nothing (keeps chatting). Child never did that again and actually was more respectful generally speaking towards my father. And who knows, maybe it was a lesson in life that she was able to take with her and helped to change the way that she treated others .

These days if you retaliated that way, parents would be suing you and authorities would be charging you with child abuse.

Please also note that not ever once in our lifetime did my father raise a hand (or voice) to us kids. He is a true gentleman, but he is calm and he is assertive, along with kind, generous and compassionate.

Ellz - If I were you I wouldn't be embarrassed by your action. Who knows ..... maybe the experience was lesson enough to have avoided the child being bitten by a dog not quite so tolerant/patient, either later that day or at some other time. But yes, unfortunately today's laws have made it so that responsibility is someone else's job, in the eyes of those who should be responsible but aren't.

Aaahhhh back in the day when the community "raised" the kids, the days when the local cop could kick you up the butt and mum and dad would thank them......this still goes on in other cultures......oh what our "civilised" society has to answer to. LOL

[centitout]

as a parent how would you feel if a horse jump you and your stroller?

thankfull i would think. friend of mine had a stroller thrust under her horse nose at speed complete with screaming child. horse cleared cleanly thank god.

i think you guys should be thank full most of the doggie damaged is small... try a child grabbing a clydesdale in harnes on the flanks.... most of them have blinkers on and have no idea what has grabbed them. when he stood on my foot i had 3 broken bones... so a child would be crushed if stood on or kicked. i'm also not sure they they all expect you to give joy rides while waiting for classes... only to be told oh well he's just a common clummper...in a scabby cart!

OT- do you have clydies??? They are my favourite breed.If you are ever showing out this way,can yo ulet me know-i would love to meet you!!!

And i know what its like to have horses at shows with the general public too-can be a nightmare.

[tianakaesha]

Another fabulous public relations thread endearing the public to purebred dogs.

If you can't complain about the general public with like minded individuals, then where can you complain? This is a purebred dog forum.

Plenty of rescuers have complained about general public too.

[voloclydes]

yeah we do have a fleet of clydies hence i have recently acquired (12mo ago) a dally.

live in far south nsw... like the bit where it snows....if i had a dollar for every time some one wanted to come here i would be a very rich woman!

see we live past the black stump, well according to canberrans and sydneyites we do.

we have black ones... so a bit out of the ordinary...

my emails is the profile and feel free to come have a drive. the only thing you need to do is show up! :D

we show as far out as gainmain and ardlethan... no further north than mossy vale.

[voloclydes]

oh and i forgot what i was going to say! douh!

which is stupid people are every where and they seem to breed. i think you attitude plays a huge roll tho...

an example.... we often get kids jumping in and out of carts if horse is tied up and slightly out of eye view. i find it hugely disrespectfully on the horse also potentialy damaging to the spine lots of huge thumps. parents often know nothing of horses so how could you expect them to see the bad in what the child is doing.

i always ask the child if i jumped on your back splat would it hurt you? would you not be sad and feel sore? they always answer yes. it also gets them to know the reason why you ask them not to and teaches them. leaves them with a nicer impression as they know they did not mean to hurt the horse but know why not to do again.

snapping and abusing does not further the image of anything let alone pure bred doggies.

a show might be the only time some kids ever see a dog and might inspire them to get a pure bred if the experience its a great one for them. they really don't care about you..... they care about what they want tis human nature.

[GoldenGirl85]

I seem to have been lucky, most people ask if they can pet the dogs/bears......Only one little two year old was running at Katy arms wide open at "Mutts in May". But we go to a lot of public event, "PAWS in the Park", Million PAWS, markets and most people ask. And if they don't I explain to people, my dogs are friendly, but some might not be.........

I have had this happen, even today I took Lexi to the markets for a bit of socialising, and there were a number of kids who Lexi stopped to oogle at, she loves kids because they are just her height, if mum stops we usually stop and I put Lexi in a sit and let her have a look, or if the kid is quiet I ask them if they want to have a pat, or sometimes the parents ask if its ok and I say yes, one of them though, Lexi has spotted him about 4ft in front and lunged for him, so I stopped her and put her in a sit to calm her, and the mother says to the kid "ooooh look heres a puppy come have a pat!" I let him because it was quite crowded and couldnt get away from them, but I then said to the mother "just for future reference you should always ask before inviting yourself to pat someone elses dog, I dont mind because I want her to get used to kids, but she is also out on a training session and she doesnt need distractions, also a lot of dogs dont tollerate kids patting them, which is why you need to ask first" she just stormed of with her grotty little kid...

[Wazzat Xolo]

Me - when I was 3 years old I made the front page of the paper because I went missing at a Royal Show - after my poor mother and officials searching for me for god knows how long I was found curled up sound asleep in a show bench with a St Bernard - my parents bred Labs and Weis - so not even our group . My poor mum.

That is gorgeous But Yes! Your poor Mum

Yes, just shows how everything has changed over the years - they left me there until I woke up as well, so obviously the ST breeders weren't worried - the photo was of me curled up still asleep with the dog - so instead of grabbing me and screaming whatever - they all thought what a great photo op and went and found the paper photographer . Will have to see if I can get mum to scan the photo and email it to me - I'm sure she's got it tucked away somewhere.

Bring back the olden days !!!

I love this story, I tried to find it online but not knowing the vicinity or paper name I couldnt, some paper clips you can buy online in an archive of old papers.

;)

[Earthdog]

one of them though, Lexi has spotted him about 4ft in front and lunged for him, so I stopped her and put her in a sit to calm her, and the mother says to the kid "ooooh look heres a puppy come have a pat!" I let him because it was quite crowded and couldnt get away from them, but I then said to the mother "just for future reference you should always ask before inviting yourself to pat someone elses dog, I dont mind because I want her to get used to kids, but she is also out on a training session and she doesnt need distractions, also a lot of dogs dont tollerate kids patting them, which is why you need to ask first" she just stormed of with her grotty little kid...

You could have said no at the get go and given a simple explanation if you wanted.

[mumof3]

This is an interesting thread. I think the point should be made that when a show is marketed to the gp, like on tv or something, the gp is given the impression that this is somewhere they can come and see the animals, and probably pat them too. Parents take their kids to shows for the rides, the day out and to look at and pat the animals - broaden their horizons so to speak. Now because I was brought up to have manners, and I try to bring my kids up to have manners too, and because I would never allow my children to pat a strange dog without the owners approval, I don't think that I would be one of those members of the gp upsetting the exhibitors. Of course, I understand that exhibitors don't go to the show so their dogs / horses whatever can get a pat. But that's why the gp go. It's not fun for kids just to look. They like to pat. This is why petting zoos are so popular. I think the complaints in this thread that the show people are making are very valid. I also think that if shows are going to be marketed to the general public as a family day out, then consideration needs to be given to meeting the needs / expectations of those families. Petting zoos are one way to go(though I've certainly seen some pretty dismal ones), and are something that our local show does. Kids don't care if they are petting a prize ram, or a poddy sheep - it is the same to a kid. Same with dogs, one fluffy dog, one big dog, is the same as the next. Perhaps the line should be "don't pat the competition animals - if you want to pat something go to xyz place". Perhaps shows are also an opportunity for breed societies to educate the public about their breed - by having a stand or something where people can have a pat (with permission), and talk to someone about the breed. The gp don't often realise that exhibitors may be feeling a bit of pressure and it just might not be a good time to pat the dogs or have a yard. The show society should give some thought, though, to finding the right time, place and animals for a yarn and a pat, or they should stop encouraging the gp to attend.

[voloclydes]

thats a great idea mo3....

there could be an advertised time to talk to people for eg... maybe 12-1pm... after that it is not encouraged.

my child gets on very well with most dogs even one that people say are not child friendly, they do really seem to like him.

he goes to the shows to look at all the breeds, he has decided he is going to become a breeder and dog shower. heaven help me, as if the zoo we have now is not stressful enough.

no just any shows either the royals no less! ;)

[Wazzat Xolo]

This is an interesting thread. I think the point should be made that when a show is marketed to the gp, like on tv or something, the gp is given the impression that this is somewhere they can come and see the animals, and probably pat them too. Parents take their kids to shows for the rides, the day out and to look at and pat the animals - broaden their horizons so to speak. Now because I was brought up to have manners, and I try to bring my kids up to have manners too, and because I would never allow my children to pat a strange dog without the owners approval, I don't think that I would be one of those members of the gp upsetting the exhibitors. Of course, I understand that exhibitors don't go to the show so their dogs / horses whatever can get a pat. But that's why the gp go. It's not fun for kids just to look. They like to pat. This is why petting zoos are so popular. I think the complaints in this thread that the show people are making are very valid. I also think that if shows are going to be marketed to the general public as a family day out, then consideration needs to be given to meeting the needs / expectations of those families. Petting zoos are one way to go(though I've certainly seen some pretty dismal ones), and are something that our local show does. Kids don't care if they are petting a prize ram, or a poddy sheep - it is the same to a kid. Same with dogs, one fluffy dog, one big dog, is the same as the next. Perhaps the line should be "don't pat the competition animals - if you want to pat something go to xyz place". Perhaps shows are also an opportunity for breed societies to educate the public about their breed - by having a stand or something where people can have a pat (with permission), and talk to someone about the breed. The gp don't often realise that exhibitors may be feeling a bit of pressure and it just might not be a good time to pat the dogs or have a yard. The show society should give some thought, though, to finding the right time, place and animals for a yarn and a pat, or they should stop encouraging the gp to attend.

Thats what I suggested to our Royal Show Society last year but as my breed was going through recognition process I couldnt last year. This year I am hoping they will let me have a breed display, as I will have a litter of puppies (hopefully) that I can possibly show to the public as well.

Another point the GP do not realise is how serious some people take the dog shows, my husband was nearly knocked over ( these are his words) by a man all dressed up to the nines carrying a Dog running and screaming frantically up the aisle, my husband was most upset and thought what a rude man!! I explained why he was like that and the pressure some people put themselves under at shows, later when introduced to the gent, he could see he was a great guy. Funny thing to this story is this gent and his wife will be showing the Xolos in the ring for the first time!!

[GoldenGirl85]

one of them though, Lexi has spotted him about 4ft in front and lunged for him, so I stopped her and put her in a sit to calm her, and the mother says to the kid "ooooh look heres a puppy come have a pat!" I let him because it was quite crowded and couldnt get away from them, but I then said to the mother "just for future reference you should always ask before inviting yourself to pat someone elses dog, I dont mind because I want her to get used to kids, but she is also out on a training session and she doesnt need distractions, also a lot of dogs dont tollerate kids patting them, which is why you need to ask first" she just stormed of with her grotty little kid...

You could have said no at the get go and given a simple explanation if you wanted.

I know, it all happened quite quickly, it wasnt until the kid was patting her roughly I decided to say something, you know how a 2yo doesnt have co-ordination to stroke, so they sort of hit? he was doing that, not hard enough for Lexi to even feel it, but still, I prefer it when the mother will hold the kids hand while they stroke the dog if they dont already know to be gentle with them

[honeychild]

I've had people ask if they can pat my dogs (ok good start) so I say yes and next thing thing I know they're picking them up! Sure they are small, and lucky they are friendly, but what are people thinking?!

[badboyz]

Mof3 makes a good point here. I have usually found more problems with the gp when at agricultural shows than when at kennel club shows. At aggie shows, just as mof3 says, there are awith a lot of people coming purely for the entertainment value adn a day out, and seeing all the animals, including dogs, is part of that. I am not as keen on aggie shows because of this reason, and if I go, never leave my dogs unsupervised. I do not find this to be quite as bad at kennel club shows, as the people who come to see the dogs are usually there for a specific reason, which is to view the dogs they are interested in and to meet and speak to breeders.

Juice, I for one, as both a dog lover and parent of sons playing weekend sport, do not like to see dogs on sporting grounds, no matter how well behaved. I do not think it is appropriate or necessary and I doubt if it is actually allowed or encouraged by the clubs and schools who own the premises. Just my opinion of course, but I sure wish spectators would leave their pets at home in this instance.