De-sexing Debate

[BJean]

IMO all pets should be desexed. There is no real reason for them not to be. Desexed dogs are less likely to have exert their authority (note I said less likely).

learn to raise/train the dog properly.

Registered breeders also need to be more diligent with what they are selling and who they are selling them to. Too many pups are going with papers (and without papers), not desexed. I hear so many general public saying they have a champion bloodlined purebred, it should (and does) get bred to any other dog of the same breed or to crossbreed in smaller ones. They feel that because it came from a registered breeder, it gives them the extra clearance that they would be breeding appropriately ie. "of champion lines".

Realise that desexing pups early can have health problems

and imo desexing a large giant breed early is irresponsible - and is putting fear over sexual organs

over and above

the health of the animal.

Edited May 6, 2010 by lilli

[Janba]

Desexed dogs are less likely to have exert their authority (note I said less likely).

The only dog in this household that never tries to exert his authority is the entire male I really think it comes down to the individual dog not the sexual status.

[Bisart Dobes]

I voted no.

With a larger breed like ours it is detrimental to the dogs development to be desexed at a young age. With boys we recommend minimum of 2 yrs and girls 18 months. Why ?? If desexed young the boys particularly have extreme bone growth without the muscle development to support that growth - they can end up with bone growth deformity's, skeletal integrity is greatly compromised and can develop osteo issues at a much earlier age than 'old age' oseto issues (arthritis etc).

Also with girls in particular there is a much higher occurance of incontence when they are desexed at a young age. From the vets I have worked with, it seems to be agreed that this is due to the lack of muscle / womb / bladder strength in a baby puppy (talking up to 12 mths).

After many years working as a vet nurse and dog trainer (along side Dr R Holmes for alot of it) I know that it does not change the temperament of a dog - so for me that is a mute point.

The detriment to the dogs lives overall is not worth it.

I know it all boils down to responsible ownership - but if I don't think that someone is responsible enough to raise their dog under our guidelines then I wouldn't sell them a puppy in the first place.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

if all cross bred dogs were not available then a lot of people would be waiting an eternity to have a pet dog....it would put so much more pressure on breeders to produce more litters to keep up with the demand and the implications of that are far reaching

[Esky the husky]

if all cross bred dogs were not available then a lot of people would be waiting an eternity to have a pet dog....it would put so much more pressure on breeders to produce more litters to keep up with the demand and the implications of that are far reaching

Wouldn't it still be better to have registered pedigree breeders, who test their dogs producing an extra litter a year, than have people buying a random mutt

[Jumabaar]

I am a breeder and have an undesexed 'PET'. She will never be anything more than a pet (well hopefully she will do dog sports). I keep her with my other entire bitches- yep they have seasons but really except for moving my entire male to my mum and grandmothers there is no big issue.

By your reasoning she should have to be desexed because she is a pet rather than a breeding dog....

I dont see why a responsible pet owner would not be able to deal with

Males don't have seasons, mess and temperament changes in season as an entire female does. Seasonal cycles are best eliminated in the family pet IMO.

In reality seasons are really not that bad- Not all bitches will have temp changes and I wouldnt even know when all but one of my girls are on season because they are clean freaks!!

So shy can't someone keep their pet the way they want so long as they have been properly educated??

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

if all cross bred dogs were not available then a lot of people would be waiting an eternity to have a pet dog....it would put so much more pressure on breeders to produce more litters to keep up with the demand and the implications of that are far reaching

Wouldn't it still be better to have registered pedigree breeders, who test their dogs producing an extra litter a year, than have people buying a random mutt

yes it would. i just cant see how breeders could keep up with the demand and my concern would be that dog ownership would get less and less each year.

i do not support BYB's nor pet shops selling animals but i think that we need to take a more strategic view and look realistically at all the issues.

[Agility Dogs]

I voted other. I think if there is a valid reason to not desex then forcing someone to neuter an animal is wrong. There are responsible animal owners who do not need or want ot desex their pets.

I think there should be incentives to do so, but if people choose not to then that is up to them.

[gila]

Voted no.

My current cross breed dog is desexed. Future dogs will most probably be desexed at an appropriate age. But if in the future I wanted to keep a dog entire for whatever reason, I would like to have that option also.

[Danois]

ANKC need to make a concerted effort to make showing desexed dogs worthwhile. This means pet dogs can still support the capabilities of the entire parentage. Nobody has really put effort into it from what I've seen, it has never really got off the ground.

(snipped quote)

What is the purpose of showing desexed dogs? Desexed dogs (especially those done early) tend to have different physical characteristics than their entire counterparts - it would be like judging apples and oranges in the show ring if they were in the same class. If they are not in the same class then you simply have a divide between show dogs and pet dogs.

Also - not forgetting that the traditional purpose of conformation shows is the showcasing of the best dogs which can be used for breeding.

Mandatory desexing is not the way to go. Perhaps councils should make it more attractive to desex - ie high costs for registration if not desexed with a majority rebate if desexed. Exemptions for anyone who can provide proof of ANKC membership or vet certificate. Then actually crack down on registrations - fine them if not registered and then waive the fine if the dog is registered (and desexed) within x time.

Also - legislate the operation of pounds/ rescue so that no dog is rehomed/ adopted that is not desexed.

Crack down on puppy farms.

The mechanisms to control the dog population already exist - the bodies responsible for enforcing them just need to actually enforce them!

[felix]

Funny. Most of the people that posted here were against mandatory desexing, and yet poll shows that majority support it.

Personally I voted no. My pet is not desexed. And I don't plan to do it. Simply because I firmly believe that desexing can have negative effects on the dogs' health. I also believe that in near or so future this will be proved beyond any doubt, and I wonder what will all supporters of mandatory desexing say then. Actually, I will just wait and see.

Edited May 6, 2010 by felix

[OSoSwift]

I voted no.

Two of my dogs are entire, one is desexed due to the fact he had one testicle that was shrinking for an unknown reason. He has been desexed for 5 years.

I am not a breeder but I do not think I should have to desex my dogs until I want to.

I have never had an unwanted pregnancy in over 12 years of owning entire dogs and bitches - not as yet anyway!

I may become a registered breeder, I may not - but I am a responsible owner of entire dogs that does not believe in desexing dogs early.

[Serket]

I think it's of benefit to desex female pets, eliminates seasons and pregnancies, but I don't think desexing a male provides much benefit. Personally I would go for a vasectomy if I had to sterilise a male.

If all males were desexed, females wouldn't need to be, I don't understand your argument.

Males don't have seasons, mess and temperament changes in season as an entire female does. Seasonal cycles are best eliminated in the family pet IMO.

I agree with you about the temperament changes and season, it's a tough time I think the post is about desexing to reduce unwanted pups though and males are equally responsible for this

This really depends on the dog - and why is always females who are considered to be the problem? Not to go anthropomorphising but seriously, I barely noticed when my GR came into season, and we have cream carpet throughout the house and she has free access inside/outside. She's not desexed yet because she's not finishing growing, and her breeder is completely supportive of waiting to desex. I want to do agility with her, and even if I didn't, from what I've read I believe it is better for her to finish growing in any case, and I'm responsible and educated enough to keep her safe when she's in season. I can also cope with the dreaded "mess", even if she wasn't as clean as she is.

IMO all pets should be desexed. There is no real reason for them not to be. Desexed dogs are less likely to have exert their authority (note I said less likely).

learn to raise/train the dog properly.

Registered breeders also need to be more diligent with what they are selling and who they are selling them to. Too many pups are going with papers (and without papers), not desexed. I hear so many general public saying they have a champion bloodlined purebred, it should (and does) get bred to any other dog of the same breed or to crossbreed in smaller ones. They feel that because it came from a registered breeder, it gives them the extra clearance that they would be breeding appropriately ie. "of champion lines".

Realise that desexing pups early can have health problems

and imo desexing a large giant breed early is irresponsible - and is putting fear over sexual organs

over and above

the health of the animal.

Especially the girly messy bits Now I'm going to go and be hypocritical, but give me girly messy bits once every 6 months over a male dog getting his penis stuck 'out' and so on (there have been at least half a dozen threads on that in the past year).

I am a breeder and have an undesexed 'PET'. She will never be anything more than a pet (well hopefully she will do dog sports). I keep her with my other entire bitches- yep they have seasons but really except for moving my entire male to my mum and grandmothers there is no big issue.

By your reasoning she should have to be desexed because she is a pet rather than a breeding dog....

I dont see why a responsible pet owner would not be able to deal with

Males don't have seasons, mess and temperament changes in season as an entire female does. Seasonal cycles are best eliminated in the family pet IMO.

In reality seasons are really not that bad- Not all bitches will have temp changes and I wouldnt even know when all but one of my girls are on season because they are clean freaks!!

So shy can't someone keep their pet the way they want so long as they have been properly educated??

You can't legislate against ignorance, stupidity and greed, it just makes everyone else's life harder while the people who did the wrong thing will still find a way to do it.

[Erny]

Why are breeders heralded as the only 'group' that are not dumb/are responsible enough to be the owners of entire/intact dogs? Breeders are not the only ones who have reason and cause to own entire/intact dogs.

And what about those they sell their dogs to, "on breeder's terms" ? What makes those people smarter/more responsible than others to be able to keep an entire/intact dog than others, just because the breeder chose them?

Edited May 6, 2010 by Erny

[Christina]

As much as I hate more rules & laws as we have so many here for so many things I agree with the desexing because

More dogs die of being dumped in the pound, being bred to death & puppy farmed than they do of being desexed.

If a survey was done on how many die in comparison I am sure dying of desexing & related conditions would be very low.

Sometimes we have to sacrifice for the greater good. People are bloody idiots, which is not fair on those responsible.

How many dogs sold with limited papers are bred from & sold as pets. Its a lot & the owners are not going to inform you.

Add that to the mongrels that are bred & we have a constant supply for the demand.

Then people get sick of their purchase & the pile of unwanted & dead dogs grow. Where are the dogs rights ?

I desex all pups before they leave me. New owners are pleased this has been done.

Obviously exemptions must be made for the old, sick, health reasons & extended time frame for larger breeds.

[Black Bronson]

name='Serket' date='7th May 2010 - 12:24 AM' post='4514283']

I think it's of benefit to desex female pets, eliminates seasons and pregnancies, but I don't think desexing a male provides much benefit. Personally I would go for a vasectomy if I had to sterilise a male.

If all males were desexed, females wouldn't need to be, I don't understand your argument.

Males don't have seasons, mess and temperament changes in season as an entire female does. Seasonal cycles are best eliminated in the family pet IMO.

I agree with you about the temperament changes and season, it's a tough time I think the post is about desexing to reduce unwanted pups though and males are equally responsible for this

This really depends on the dog - and why is always females who are considered to be the problem? Not to go anthropomorphising but seriously, I barely noticed when my GR came into season, and we have cream carpet throughout the house and she has free access inside/outside. She's not desexed yet because she's not finishing growing, and her breeder is completely supportive of waiting to desex. I want to do agility with her, and even if I didn't, from what I've read I believe it is better for her to finish growing in any case, and I'm responsible and educated enough to keep her safe when she's in season. I can also cope with the dreaded "mess", even if she wasn't as clean as she is.

Perhaps it does depend on the individual dog, but the possibility of issues with entire females in season is high. Unless intending to breed, I personally would prefer to desex and eliminate seasonal cycles and not have to worry about it with a pet. Having said that, I prefer a male anyway then I don't need to worry about any of that

[IngeK]

I voted NO. Like someone else said, the people that want money of their animal will breed and not desex anyway.

There should be a law that it is forbidden to sell animals in petshops.

My males are never desexed we do have a GSD bitch that we have desexed when she was 4 because we have an entire male and I dont want and "oops" nest and at the time we wouldnt have enough room to keep them separated while she would be on heat.

If I would only have 1 bitch I would never desex her.

The reason a vet always gives "the change on cancer is bigger for a bitch" I find really weird. Im not having my breast removed because I might get breastcancer one day.

For me it is still weird too that here they look at you funny when you have entire dogs and in the Netherlands they look at you funny when you mention you want your dog desexed

Oh and my males never escaped to go after bitches, never fought together or with other dogs because. Its all got to do with being responsible yourself as an owner.

[IngeK]

Why are breeders heralded as the only 'group' that are not dumb/are responsible enough to be the owners of entire/intact dogs? Breeders are not the only ones who have reason and cause to own entire/intact dogs.

Exactly!

and are registered breeders always breeding in benefit for the breed? For me a nest or 2 every year is more pups in the world as well, but because it's done under "registered breeding" it should all be alright!

[centitout]

Also on this topic

Do you think two entire males or two entire females can live happily together? Or do you think entire males have a higher aggression then desexed males?

Depends on breed i think-i have 3 entire males,2 fully mature ones and a pup,also have 3 females.They all run together,but the desexed bitch is the boss!

[Scarlet]

Most people on here, a dog forum, are responsible owners so can house entire dogs responsibly.

Unfortunately most of the population are not in this category so I wouldn't disagree with compulsory desexing as long as there were exemptions.

If you had a reasonable reason for not desexing and were prepared to have a house/yard inspection then choice would not be removed from you.

I've rescued from pounds and agree that ALL these dogs should be desexed.

But the main source of eventually unwanted pets and impulse buying of pets is from pet shops and puppy mills.

I would prefer to see legislation controlling theses aspects first.