De-sexing Debate

[jackie_a1]

you have to make it fair. Animals are in shelters because they're untrained and randomly bred before sheer numbers. Not every non ANCK breeder is a person who churns out dogs for profit either, not all breeds are ANKC recognised.

Not all animals in shelters are untrained and randomly bred. Some animals owners pass away, some are given away, some are in financial ruin and can't afford a dog, some run away, some get stolen etc.

I know not every non ANCK breeder is a money hungry monster. I never said that or implied it in any way, but would it be such a bad thing that dogs numbers would be sufficiently decreased.

I doubt we will ever run out of cross breeds. Every day I hear of a new doodle or shitpoo... And if there was a legislation in place of course people will underground breed its inevitable.

[Janba]

This is how I would police it Janba.

Dogs bought, purchased or given without papers. If you go to a pet shop and buy a dog. If you buy one off a mate. If you are given a puppy. SPECIFICALLY a dog without papers. I haven't written the legislation...

My next dog will be gotten "off a mate" and probably in exchange for a service fee but it will have "papers". I'm not a registered breeder but I don't need to be.

Whose papers? Some registries don't require the pup to be registered till its older, they are litter registered instead.

I am against the removing of the choice to desex or not. It should be a personal informed decision. Education is the key not legislation.

[furballs]

you have to make it fair. Animals are in shelters because they're untrained and randomly bred before sheer numbers. Not every non ANCK breeder is a person who churns out dogs for profit either, not all breeds are ANKC recognised.

Not all animals in shelters are untrained and randomly bred. Some animals owners pass away, some are given away, some are in financial ruin and can't afford a dog, some run away, some get stolen etc.

I know not every non ANCK breeder is a money hungry monster. I never said that or implied it in any way, but would it be such a bad thing that dogs numbers would be sufficiently decreased.

I doubt we will ever run out of cross breeds. Every day I hear of a new doodle or shitpoo... And if there was a legislation in place of course people will underground breed its inevitable.

I agree with you about the shelter dogs. I foster dogs which are going to be killed so I would love to see less unwanted dogs. However, I am a responsible dog owner and I love my dogs like they were my children so if I have a dog which I believe shouldn't be desexed because it could cause serious health issues later in life, why should my dog be punished because the majority of dog owners are irresponsible? The issue here is people, not dogs. People need to forced into being responsible, either by needing a licence to own a pet, or being heavily fined for their irresponsible behaviour.

[jackie_a1]

I haven't written a legislation or really thought about how they would come about writing one but I assume papered show dogs or breeders would have a certain class of their own.

I assume if your dog is a cross bred you would immediately fall under the legislation, I'm against legislation but for voluntary desexing. Education is the key however how many people listen? Out of 100 people I'll talk to about their dogs (75) of those think its an awesome idea to breed from their pets.

I think skiing is a good idea too. Should I do it? No because I don't know the slightest idea about skiing.

[Black Bronson]

I think it's of benefit to desex female pets, eliminates seasons and pregnancies, but I don't think desexing a male provides much benefit. Personally I would go for a vasectomy if I had to sterilise a male.

If all males were desexed, females wouldn't need to be, I don't understand your argument.

Males don't have seasons, mess and temperament changes in season as an entire female does. Seasonal cycles are best eliminated in the family pet IMO.

[jackie_a1]

Also on this topic

Do you think two entire males or two entire females can live happily together? Or do you think entire males have a higher aggression then desexed males?

[Nekhbet]

a lot of good hunting dogs and pig dogs are cross breeds. So we wipe them out and replace them with what?

[Just love my dogs!]

I voted 'no' because I show my entire male lab but I have no intention of becoming a breeder. I would not be happy if I was forced to desex my dog.

[furballs]

I think it's of benefit to desex female pets, eliminates seasons and pregnancies, but I don't think desexing a male provides much benefit. Personally I would go for a vasectomy if I had to sterilise a male.

If all males were desexed, females wouldn't need to be, I don't understand your argument.

Males don't have seasons, mess and temperament changes in season as an entire female does. Seasonal cycles are best eliminated in the family pet IMO.

I agree with you about the temperament changes and season, it's a tough time I think the post is about desexing to reduce unwanted pups though and males are equally responsible for this

[Nekhbet]

the problem is not all unwanted pups are accidents either

[jackie_a1]

Nekhbet I'm telling you if a legislation came to pass cross breeds won't be wiped out. Look at pitbulls condemned and banned and people still continue to breed.

Bull arabs are pig dogs aren't they? And aren't bull arabs trying to be recognized as a pure breed now? Bandogs are also hunting dogs too and I have read some people think they should be made purebred. So perhaps if the government put in a legislation they'd recognise certain minorities or sporting groups. I told you I haven't written a legislation so I have no idea how they'd go about it.

Cross breeds will remain as long as humans do.

[Just love my dogs!]

Nekhbet I'm telling you if a legislation came to pass cross breeds won't be wiped out. Look at pitbulls condemned and banned and people still continue to breed.

Bull arabs are pig dogs aren't they? And aren't bull arabs trying to be recognized as a pure breed now? Bandogs are also hunting dogs too and I have read some people think they should be made purebred. So perhaps if the government put in a legislation they'd recognise certain minorities or sporting groups. I told you I haven't written a legislation so I have no idea how they'd go about it.

Cross breeds will remain as long as humans do.

Lots of people I know own cross breed dogs and prefer them. Not everyone wants to have a pure bred dog.

[jackie_a1]

I agree with you about the temperament changes and season, it's a tough time I think the post is about desexing to reduce unwanted pups though and males are equally responsible for this

Bingo furballs! The thread was in question to try and reduce puppy/dog numbers and not to make cross breeds or non show dogs extinct.

(Both my dogs are cross breeds never owned a pure bred in my life.)

[peibe]

I voted no

I believe it is every dog owners right whether they be breeder, shower or just owner to have their dog as they see fit, be that entire or desexed

Not all entire dogs are breed from and I know many that have never had a litter or sired a litter, it is called responsible ownership

But, once a dog has been in a pound and gets rehomed from the pound or repeatedly picked up by rangers as roaming, desexing should be mandatory. All dogs rehomed by a

rescue group should be desexed regardless of breed or mix

All my dogs are desexed, my choice but I do not think bad of people for having entire animals

[Nekhbet]

not all pig dogs are bull arabs actually. THere are few actual bull arabs recognised under the BA registery compared to simply type bull arabs. Then there are lurchers which are deerhound, greyhound x etc. These are not on registries. Bandogs are PP and some hunting but they will not be recognised here.

So perhaps if the government put in a legislation they'd recognise certain minorities or sporting groups.

no state will recognise personal protection 'crosses' or encourage unrecognised crosses to be bred for hunting. Hell they wont even recognise foxhounds for deer in Vic anymore.

If you want to reduce puppy numbers you have to make the ill bred backyard and puppy farm dogs worth less money. That is the driving force not accidents. When you can breed your random thingy and think you'll get a few thousand for the litter well why wouldnt you? While people pay stupid pricing the cycle continues. The difference is BYBers are not held accountable for their breeding.

microchipping and having the breeders name permanently on it too would be a fab idea.

[furballs]

I agree with you about the temperament changes and season, it's a tough time I think the post is about desexing to reduce unwanted pups though and males are equally responsible for this

Bingo furballs! The thread was in question to try and reduce puppy/dog numbers and not to make cross breeds or non show dogs extinct.

(Both my dogs are cross breeds never owned a pure bred in my life.)

My intact female is a pedigree with papers so technically I could breed her under your proposal, but I wouldn't because I am not interested in adding more unwanted dogs to this world. She is purely a very loved family member who happens to have papers. All my other dogs have always been desexed.

[BJean]

As a proponent of Liberty

I voted No.

Edited May 6, 2010 by lilli

[Raelene]

IMO all pets should be desexed. There is no real reason for them not to be. Desexed dogs are less likely to have exert their authority (note I said less likely).

There are wayyyyyy too many irresponsible dog owners who have accidents or intentionally backyard breed.

Registered breeders also need to be more diligent with what they are selling and who they are selling them to. Too many pups are going with papers (and without papers), not desexed. I hear so many general public saying they have a champion bloodlined purebred, it should (and does) get bred to any other dog of the same breed or to crossbreed in smaller ones. They feel that because it came from a registered breeder, it gives them the extra clearance that they would be breeding appropriately ie. "of champion lines".

ANKC need to make a concerted effort to make showing desexed dogs worthwhile. This means pet dogs can still support the capabilities of the entire parentage. Nobody has really put effort into it from what I've seen, it has never really got off the ground.

I voted yes - I think you are onto something here but it would need to be handled carefully and not just be completely mandatory. There needs to be reliable and policed exceptions for those with good reason not to desex. As for the chances of it being successful, it will be about as successful as the understaffed Council run shelters are..... In ACT all dogs over 6mths old must be desexed unless a levy is paid for an entire animal. Hmm I don't think I have EVER heard of one person being prosecuted in the several years this has been in place. In fact, I don't think a lot of the regular public even know.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Raelene

[BJean]

Nekhbet I'm telling you if a legislation came to pass cross breeds won't be wiped out. Look at pitbulls condemned and banned and people still continue to breed.

Banning entires is a lot different to restrictions on a breed. PBs are not condemmed and banned in all AU states.

Banning entires means you cant import a dog that is not recognised by the ANKC.

Banning entires means you can only import dogs from a set group of countries and with pedigree protocols the same as Australia.

Bull arabs are pig dogs aren't they? And aren't bull arabs trying to be recognized as a pure breed now? Bandogs are also hunting dogs too and I have read some people think they should be made purebred. So perhaps if the government put in a legislation they'd recognise certain minorities or sporting groups. I told you I haven't written a legislation so I have no idea how they'd go about it.

as if

Edited May 6, 2010 by lilli

[Guest bigdogg]

No