A Small Tiff In The Off-leash Park

[Lady Flying Furball]

Who knows what other factors were involved in this one example. In nature there's a mechanism of correction in that if you're rude or aggressive, you'll be dissuaded from that sort of behavior one way or another. The whole purpose of play in any specie, including humans, is to create an understanding of behavioral protocols. I know humans love to think they're super special and know best, but the natural world has done fine for millions of years without human orchestration and will continue to do so long after we're gone.

Unfortunately, Hetzer, the dogs who live with us in our human 'civilised' world aren't "in nature". They don't have the daily freedoms they used to have, to wander and mix freely with other dogs as they used to in my childhood days, to self socialise. And what that means is that there are many dogs who aren't always 'stable' in themselves, so to allow your dog to wander freely using off-lead parks for the purpose is not something that will assure you your dog will learn appropriately or fairly or sufficiently, because those dogs themselves have not necessarily learnt appropriately or fairly or sufficiently. By comparison to the UK, for example, our dogs aren't as settled as theirs seem to be (generally speaking). In contrast, our society regards dogs in general as something that is anti-social to be around. In the UK, they have the freedom to travel and mix with humans in their day to day lives outside of their homes. Here, we've battled laws that suggest they shouldn't be in outdoor cafes for fear of a dog hair floating and making its way over to someone who might be eating. , to name just one.

Here, the push seems to be to isolate the dogs more and more from 'life', yet somehow miraculously expect the dogs to be completely comfortable with 'life'. Which means that after generations of dogs not learning well enough themselves, we have many enough who are bad teachers.

So, to suggest (which I think you were) that it is a better thing to let your dog run up to other dogs (whether that be because you allow them to or whether that be because you have no control to stop it) ...... I'm afraid I can't agree.

Hi Erny I've had a think about what you wrote and I you're right. I guess a dog park can be a bit like a prison yard on occasion where you don't want your dog, especially a younger impressionable one, to be at the mercy of bullying dogs of unknown psychology. As Kavik mentioned to me, the element of human control and supervision is important. However in off-leash zones, it's hard to please everyone all the time. In such a zone, its a bit unrealistic to expect that your dog will not be approached by another dog. That's why, in this threads example, I find the SWF owner's comments and attitude really irritating. Given the choice, I'd much rather have a playful Lab run up to say Hi than a fear-aggressive SWF and human combo.

Can you be more specific Hetzer abouyt which SWF owner's comments you find irritating. I just read thru this whole thread again and I think it is a robust discussion where owners of differnet types of dogs talk about the realitites... So I would be really interested to know exactly which part is irritating,, and not only that "really" irritaing

ETA: is it my comments??

Edited May 6, 2010 by FlyingFurball

[mrs tornsocks]

Just thought I'd share a little story from this morning's walk. On our way home (on leash ) we usually cut across a big car park, never any cars first thing in the morning. Noticed two dogs - a pair we see regularly in the area, have never met, but often comment on them (my OH and I call one of them the horse dog.) They're about 30 metres away, off leash and their owner walking but reading the paper at the same time.

Dogs saw us first. I don't know exactly what breed / mix the big one is, but it is like a giant white mastiff. It has quite incredible shoulders and massive chest. Anyway, bounds up to us, has a sniff and within ten seconds is growling and has a little go. Archie tried to escape a bit, running around the back of OH, which tempted the aggressor a bit more. Archie then rolls straight onto his back, by which time the owner arrived.

Owner clips the horse dog back onto lead, kicks it in the head, kicks the other (quite old) dog for good measure. The mastiff gave a slight cower and kind of shut its eye a little - clearly expecting a follow up kick or two.

Two very different experiences in two days.

Edited May 6, 2010 by mrs tornsocks

[Di*]

Fairy nuff, and absolutely, it is easy to put him on the leash and I can totally appreciate little 'uns paranoia. Was reading that horrible other thread with the injuries to schnauzer and maltese, which looked awful. I suppose I was a little surprised by the harsh reaction of the owner, particularly as Archie had sniffed one or two others small ones and owners generally smile and we all move on (including Archie who usually finds no interest in the littlies and vice versa). As far as bounding, no, it's not ideal, he is still pretty young though, and he is improving every time we go to this particular park (too crowded for my liking so we go once every few months at best). He recalled pretty much every time, and my mistake for not realising earlier that I should have called him off this particular dog sooner. The other dog was actually displaying some quite aggressive behaviour in his mum's arms although obviously I don't know his history.

All good

Warning: A Rant

There have been so many posts on annoying out of control yappy aggressive little dogs. I thought I'd offer "The little dog POV ..."

Playful bouncy young labs are among the most dangerous dogs for my old chi cross. He has luxating patellas and a bad back. One playful knock would mean not only pain but quite likely the need for surgery. Even when I keep him on lead and tell the owners of these dogs that he does not like labs or that he may get hurt, they insist their dogs are friendly. When I pick him up to keep him out of their way, they lecture me on how bad it is to pick up small dogs--it makes them aggressive, etc, etc. However, when my dog is in obedience classes with well trained labs in a controlled situation he shows no aggression at all towards them. He'll sit next to a lab in long stays. He'll act as 'a post' and allow the labs to weave around him. We rarely go to off lead areas but even owners with onlead dogs want to force my dog to socialise with their dogs or want to "cure" my dog of his discomfort with bouncy young dogs by forcing him to interact. It drives me nuts.

Di

I think by naming labs as a "dangerous" dog for your old boy is being a bit unfair, ALL of the large breed dogs would be a danger for him then such as ridgebacks, great danes, boxers, they are all large and high energy. The only reason that labs get picked on is that there are so many of them around. Personally if i had an old dog I would never take them to an off lead park because accidents do happen , a dog could be running for his own ball and step on your oldie by mistake.

Please read my post.

1.I clearly stated that labs are "among the most dangerous dogs". The reason labs get "picked on" by me is that their owners are the most likely to say "don't worry, he's friendly" ...

2. I said that this also occurs when my dog is onlead and not at off lead parks.

Di

[Di*]

Fairy nuff, and absolutely, it is easy to put him on the leash and I can totally appreciate little 'uns paranoia. Was reading that horrible other thread with the injuries to schnauzer and maltese, which looked awful. I suppose I was a little surprised by the harsh reaction of the owner, particularly as Archie had sniffed one or two others small ones and owners generally smile and we all move on (including Archie who usually finds no interest in the littlies and vice versa). As far as bounding, no, it's not ideal, he is still pretty young though, and he is improving every time we go to this particular park (too crowded for my liking so we go once every few months at best). He recalled pretty much every time, and my mistake for not realising earlier that I should have called him off this particular dog sooner. The other dog was actually displaying some quite aggressive behaviour in his mum's arms although obviously I don't know his history.

All good

Warning: A Rant

There have been so many posts on annoying out of control yappy aggressive little dogs. I thought I'd offer "The little dog POV ..."

Playful bouncy young labs are among the most dangerous dogs for my old chi cross. He has luxating patellas and a bad back. One playful knock would mean not only pain but quite likely the need for surgery. Even when I keep him on lead and tell the owners of these dogs that he does not like labs or that he may get hurt, they insist their dogs are friendly. When I pick him up to keep him out of their way, they lecture me on how bad it is to pick up small dogs--it makes them aggressive, etc, etc. However, when my dog is in obedience classes with well trained labs in a controlled situation he shows no aggression at all towards them. He'll sit next to a lab in long stays. He'll act as 'a post' and allow the labs to weave around him. We rarely go to off lead areas but even owners with onlead dogs want to force my dog to socialise with their dogs or want to "cure" my dog of his discomfort with bouncy young dogs by forcing him to interact. It drives me nuts.

Di

I think by naming labs as a "dangerous" dog for your old boy is being a bit unfair, ALL of the large breed dogs would be a danger for him then such as ridgebacks, great danes, boxers, they are all large and high energy. The only reason that labs get picked on is that there are so many of them around. Personally if i had an old dog I would never take them to an off lead park because accidents do happen , a dog could be running for his own ball and step on your oldie by mistake.

Agree, I don't take my older mini schnauzer to the dog park anymore - she is no longer dog tolerant and she is losing her sight and hearing (and most of her teeth). She would feel threatened and I would be worried that she would get knocked over and hurt - why put a dog (especially a small one) in that situation? She now just gets gentle short leash walks which she enjoys. There are plenty of other options other than off-leash parks.

[Di*]

Fairy nuff, and absolutely, it is easy to put him on the leash and I can totally appreciate little 'uns paranoia. Was reading that horrible other thread with the injuries to schnauzer and maltese, which looked awful. I suppose I was a little surprised by the harsh reaction of the owner, particularly as Archie had sniffed one or two others small ones and owners generally smile and we all move on (including Archie who usually finds no interest in the littlies and vice versa). As far as bounding, no, it's not ideal, he is still pretty young though, and he is improving every time we go to this particular park (too crowded for my liking so we go once every few months at best). He recalled pretty much every time, and my mistake for not realising earlier that I should have called him off this particular dog sooner. The other dog was actually displaying some quite aggressive behaviour in his mum's arms although obviously I don't know his history.

All good

Warning: A Rant

There have been so many posts on annoying out of control yappy aggressive little dogs. I thought I'd offer "The little dog POV ..."

Playful bouncy young labs are among the most dangerous dogs for my old chi cross. He has luxating patellas and a bad back. One playful knock would mean not only pain but quite likely the need for surgery. Even when I keep him on lead and tell the owners of these dogs that he does not like labs or that he may get hurt, they insist their dogs are friendly. When I pick him up to keep him out of their way, they lecture me on how bad it is to pick up small dogs--it makes them aggressive, etc, etc. However, when my dog is in obedience classes with well trained labs in a controlled situation he shows no aggression at all towards them. He'll sit next to a lab in long stays. He'll act as 'a post' and allow the labs to weave around him. We rarely go to off lead areas but even owners with onlead dogs want to force my dog to socialise with their dogs or want to "cure" my dog of his discomfort with bouncy young dogs by forcing him to interact. It drives me nuts.

Di

I think by naming labs as a "dangerous" dog for your old boy is being a bit unfair, ALL of the large breed dogs would be a danger for him then such as ridgebacks, great danes, boxers, they are all large and high energy. The only reason that labs get picked on is that there are so many of them around. Personally if i had an old dog I would never take them to an off lead park because accidents do happen , a dog could be running for his own ball and step on your oldie by mistake.

Agree, I don't take my older mini schnauzer to the dog park anymore - she is no longer dog tolerant and she is losing her sight and hearing (and most of her teeth). She would feel threatened and I would be worried that she would get knocked over and hurt - why put a dog (especially a small one) in that situation? She now just gets gentle short leash walks which she enjoys. There are plenty of other options other than off-leash parks.

Please read my post. I said I rarely take my dog to off lead parks. These incidents occur even when both dogs are onlead. When my dog is in an off lead situation, it is when there are no other bouncy dogs present--usually no dogs at all. A typical scenario would be: me with my dog in empty dog park. Car arrives in carpark. Owner and dog(s) get out. Owner opens gate and let(s) dogs to race across the park with no concern about anyone else. I've even seen a young lab plow into the back of the legs of an older woman walking her dog and knocking her to the ground. These are high energy strong dogs whose owners often use their friendliness and energy as an excuse for their own lack of control.

D

[Di*]

Ha ha ha Who ever heard of an aggressive or dangerous labrador!?!?!?

You're not serious?

There is a very HA and DA lab down the street from me - people cross the street when they see it approaching (on leash).

Most labs also play very physically. They can easily hurt a small dog even if they didn't mean it.

I'm deadly serious! Who could be scared of a labrador?! They're known as the world's friendliest and most family orientated dog! I would never cross the street if I see a labrador on a leash. If I see a little yappy thing, then I cross the street!

An unruly lab, owned by someone who thinks that all labs are friendly and wouldn't harm anyone, could easily bowl over a toddler, body slam a smaller dog (has happened to mine) or, as I pointed out in my previous post, become aggressive due to a lack of socialisation.

Any dog, in the wrong hands, can be dangerous. Sometimes "the wrong hands" aren't just bogans with aggressive dogs, but ignorant people who assume that their dog will turn out to be friendly by virtue of its breed.

FWIW, for the last few years running, labs have been responsible for most bites to children in the US.

Lab owners please note: I'm not having a go at labs. Love them. I just can't stand it when someone says that all labs are friendly and can't understand why some people are scared of them. I'm scared of owners like that.

ETA: Do you know there is a difference between human and dog aggression? A dogs might be family friendly but aggressive to other dogs. They are totally different things.

Precisely!

[twodoggies2001]

Ha ha ha Who ever heard of an aggressive or dangerous labrador!?!?!?

You're not serious?

There is a very HA and DA lab down the street from me - people cross the street when they see it approaching (on leash).

Most labs also play very physically. They can easily hurt a small dog even if they didn't mean it.

I'm deadly serious! Who could be scared of a labrador?! They're known as the world's friendliest and most family orientated dog! I would never cross the street if I see a labrador on a leash. If I see a little yappy thing, then I cross the street!

Well, you haven't met the lab who lives down the street from us. The owner insists on walking him off lead down the street, so he can empty his bowels, and so she doesn't need to mess up her own yard, and this lab is the meanest aggressive piece of work known in the neighborhood. I know labs are known for their friendliness, and have met many at the dog park, but this one is the big exception to the rule.

[labsrule]

Fairy nuff, and absolutely, it is easy to put him on the leash and I can totally appreciate little 'uns paranoia. Was reading that horrible other thread with the injuries to schnauzer and maltese, which looked awful. I suppose I was a little surprised by the harsh reaction of the owner, particularly as Archie had sniffed one or two others small ones and owners generally smile and we all move on (including Archie who usually finds no interest in the littlies and vice versa). As far as bounding, no, it's not ideal, he is still pretty young though, and he is improving every time we go to this particular park (too crowded for my liking so we go once every few months at best). He recalled pretty much every time, and my mistake for not realising earlier that I should have called him off this particular dog sooner. The other dog was actually displaying some quite aggressive behaviour in his mum's arms although obviously I don't know his history.

All good

Warning: A Rant

There have been so many posts on annoying out of control yappy aggressive little dogs. I thought I'd offer "The little dog POV ..."

Playful bouncy young labs are among the most dangerous dogs for my old chi cross. He has luxating patellas and a bad back. One playful knock would mean not only pain but quite likely the need for surgery. Even when I keep him on lead and tell the owners of these dogs that he does not like labs or that he may get hurt, they insist their dogs are friendly. When I pick him up to keep him out of their way, they lecture me on how bad it is to pick up small dogs--it makes them aggressive, etc, etc. However, when my dog is in obedience classes with well trained labs in a controlled situation he shows no aggression at all towards them. He'll sit next to a lab in long stays. He'll act as 'a post' and allow the labs to weave around him. We rarely go to off lead areas but even owners with onlead dogs want to force my dog to socialise with their dogs or want to "cure" my dog of his discomfort with bouncy young dogs by forcing him to interact. It drives me nuts.

Di

I think by naming labs as a "dangerous" dog for your old boy is being a bit unfair, ALL of the large breed dogs would be a danger for him then such as ridgebacks, great danes, boxers, they are all large and high energy. The only reason that labs get picked on is that there are so many of them around. Personally if i had an old dog I would never take them to an off lead park because accidents do happen , a dog could be running for his own ball and step on your oldie by mistake.

Please read my post.

1.I clearly stated that labs are "among the most dangerous dogs". The reason labs get "picked on" by me is that their owners are the most likely to say "don't worry, he's friendly" ...

2. I said that this also occurs when my dog is onlead and not at off lead parks.

Di

Your statement "among the most dangerous dogs" is so ridiculous it is laughable and yes 9 times out of 10 the lab is friendly - pity you can't take a leaf out of the lab's book

Labs are so dangerous that they are the most popular breed in Australia, US, UK etc and used as guide dogs, sniffer dogs, therapy dogs etc etc . The fact that our beloved breed is so renowned for its awesome temperament, is so intelligent, so good looking and has so much visibility thru its role as a "service dog" engenders a lot of jealousy in the dog world

[Di*]

Fairy nuff, and absolutely, it is easy to put him on the leash and I can totally appreciate little 'uns paranoia. Was reading that horrible other thread with the injuries to schnauzer and maltese, which looked awful. I suppose I was a little surprised by the harsh reaction of the owner, particularly as Archie had sniffed one or two others small ones and owners generally smile and we all move on (including Archie who usually finds no interest in the littlies and vice versa). As far as bounding, no, it's not ideal, he is still pretty young though, and he is improving every time we go to this particular park (too crowded for my liking so we go once every few months at best). He recalled pretty much every time, and my mistake for not realising earlier that I should have called him off this particular dog sooner. The other dog was actually displaying some quite aggressive behaviour in his mum's arms although obviously I don't know his history.

All good

Warning: A Rant

There have been so many posts on annoying out of control yappy aggressive little dogs. I thought I'd offer "The little dog POV ..."

Playful bouncy young labs are among the most dangerous dogs for my old chi cross. He has luxating patellas and a bad back. One playful knock would mean not only pain but quite likely the need for surgery. Even when I keep him on lead and tell the owners of these dogs that he does not like labs or that he may get hurt, they insist their dogs are friendly. When I pick him up to keep him out of their way, they lecture me on how bad it is to pick up small dogs--it makes them aggressive, etc, etc. However, when my dog is in obedience classes with well trained labs in a controlled situation he shows no aggression at all towards them. He'll sit next to a lab in long stays. He'll act as 'a post' and allow the labs to weave around him. We rarely go to off lead areas but even owners with onlead dogs want to force my dog to socialise with their dogs or want to "cure" my dog of his discomfort with bouncy young dogs by forcing him to interact. It drives me nuts.

Di

I think by naming labs as a "dangerous" dog for your old boy is being a bit unfair, ALL of the large breed dogs would be a danger for him then such as ridgebacks, great danes, boxers, they are all large and high energy. The only reason that labs get picked on is that there are so many of them around. Personally if i had an old dog I would never take them to an off lead park because accidents do happen , a dog could be running for his own ball and step on your oldie by mistake.

Please read my post.

1.I clearly stated that labs are "among the most dangerous dogs". The reason labs get "picked on" by me is that their owners are the most likely to say "don't worry, he's friendly" ...

2. I said that this also occurs when my dog is onlead and not at off lead parks.

Di

Your statement "among the most dangerous dogs" is so ridiculous it is laughable and yes 9 times out of 10 the lab is friendly - pity you can't take a leaf out of the lab's book

Labs are so dangerous that they are the most popular breed in Australia, US, UK etc and used as guide dogs, sniffer dogs, therapy dogs etc etc . The fact that our beloved breed is so renowned for its awesome temperament, is so intelligent, so good looking and has so much visibility thru its role as a "service dog" engenders a lot of jealousy in the dog world

[Lady Flying Furball]

Just thought I'd share a little story from this morning's walk. On our way home (on leash ) we usually cut across a big car park, never any cars first thing in the morning. Noticed two dogs - a pair we see regularly in the area, have never met, but often comment on them (my OH and I call one of them the horse dog.) They're about 30 metres away, off leash and their owner walking but reading the paper at the same time.

Dogs saw us first. I don't know exactly what breed / mix the big one is, but it is like a giant white mastiff. It has quite incredible shoulders and massive chest. Anyway, bounds up to us, has a sniff and within ten seconds is growling and has a little go. Archie tried to escape a bit, running around the back of OH, which tempted the aggressor a bit more. Archie then rolls straight onto his back, by which time the owner arrived.

Owner clips the horse dog back onto lead, kicks it in the head, kicks the other (quite old) dog for good measure. The mastiff gave a slight cower and kind of shut its eye a little - clearly expecting a follow up kick or two.

Two very different experiences in two days.

Gosh, that's awful

[Di*]

Fairy nuff, and absolutely, it is easy to put him on the leash and I can totally appreciate little 'uns paranoia. Was reading that horrible other thread with the injuries to schnauzer and maltese, which looked awful. I suppose I was a little surprised by the harsh reaction of the owner, particularly as Archie had sniffed one or two others small ones and owners generally smile and we all move on (including Archie who usually finds no interest in the littlies and vice versa). As far as bounding, no, it's not ideal, he is still pretty young though, and he is improving every time we go to this particular park (too crowded for my liking so we go once every few months at best). He recalled pretty much every time, and my mistake for not realising earlier that I should have called him off this particular dog sooner. The other dog was actually displaying some quite aggressive behaviour in his mum's arms although obviously I don't know his history.

All good

Warning: A Rant

There have been so many posts on annoying out of control yappy aggressive little dogs. I thought I'd offer "The little dog POV ..."

Playful bouncy young labs are among the most dangerous dogs for my old chi cross. He has luxating patellas and a bad back. One playful knock would mean not only pain but quite likely the need for surgery. Even when I keep him on lead and tell the owners of these dogs that he does not like labs or that he may get hurt, they insist their dogs are friendly. When I pick him up to keep him out of their way, they lecture me on how bad it is to pick up small dogs--it makes them aggressive, etc, etc. However, when my dog is in obedience classes with well trained labs in a controlled situation he shows no aggression at all towards them. He'll sit next to a lab in long stays. He'll act as 'a post' and allow the labs to weave around him. We rarely go to off lead areas but even owners with onlead dogs want to force my dog to socialise with their dogs or want to "cure" my dog of his discomfort with bouncy young dogs by forcing him to interact. It drives me nuts.

Di

I think by naming labs as a "dangerous" dog for your old boy is being a bit unfair, ALL of the large breed dogs would be a danger for him then such as ridgebacks, great danes, boxers, they are all large and high energy. The only reason that labs get picked on is that there are so many of them around. Personally if i had an old dog I would never take them to an off lead park because accidents do happen , a dog could be running for his own ball and step on your oldie by mistake.

Please read my post.

1.I clearly stated that labs are "among the most dangerous dogs". The reason labs get "picked on" by me is that their owners are the most likely to say "don't worry, he's friendly" ...

2. I said that this also occurs when my dog is onlead and not at off lead parks.

Di

Your statement "among the most dangerous dogs" is so ridiculous it is laughable and yes 9 times out of 10 the lab is friendly - pity you can't take a leaf out of the lab's book

Labs are so dangerous that they are the most popular breed in Australia, US, UK etc and used as guide dogs, sniffer dogs, therapy dogs etc etc . The fact that our beloved breed is so renowned for its awesome temperament, is so intelligent, so good looking and has so much visibility thru its role as a "service dog" engenders a lot of jealousy in the dog world

So lab owner 1 thinks that when I say the following: "Playful bouncy young labs are among the most dangerous dogs for my old chi cross. He has luxating patellas and a bad back. One playful knock would mean not only pain but quite likely the need for surgery. Even when I keep him on lead and tell the owners of these dogs that he does not like labs or that he may get hurt, they insist their dogs are friendly" that this means I'm claiming labs are the only dogs dangerous to my dog and lab owner 2 thinks I mean that labs are amonst the most dangerous of all dogs. Defensiveness appears to lead to an inability to read what is written.

To clarify ... some of my best friends are labs but they are AMONG the most dangerous dogs FOR MY little dog. Hope that is clear. [AND I believe this is not only because they are big and bouncy but, as importantly, because they are believed to be friendly, safe dogs. This means that the risk of big, bouncy, friendly dogs to other dogs and humans is often overlooked.]

Di

Edited May 6, 2010 by Di*

[Greytmate]

Your statement "among the most dangerous dogs" is so ridiculous it is laughable and yes 9 times out of 10 the lab is friendly - pity you can't take a leaf out of the lab's book

Labs are so dangerous that they are the most popular breed in Australia, US, UK etc and used as guide dogs, sniffer dogs, therapy dogs etc etc . The fact that our beloved breed is so renowned for its awesome temperament, is so intelligent, so good looking and has so much visibility thru its role as a "service dog" engenders a lot of jealousy in the dog world

It isn't ridiculous.

A lab is a huge heavy thing that can come barrelling towards you with great force. We are not talking about danger from aggression, we are talking about danger from a blunt force trauma.

Describing a dog running at you and knocking into you as a friendly action is ridiculous. Since when is body slamming a stranger counted as a friendly thing to do? It isn't.

Trained labs are great. Untrained young labs are painful to be around. No they may not bite you, but they can leave terrible bruises, and are heavy and strong enough to fracture bones of little dogs. They are not as big as some dogs, but they are inclined to act in a way that involves more body contact.

I can appreciate people defending their breed, but there is a responsibility to manage each breed so that it doesn't harm others, and that may require taking another look at the dog's behaviour and realising others may see it differently than you do.

[Hetzer]

Can you be more specific Hetzer abouyt which SWF owner's comments you find irritating. I just read thru this whole thread again and I think it is a robust discussion where owners of differnet types of dogs talk about the realitites... So I would be really interested to know exactly which part is irritating,, and not only that "really" irritaing

ETA: is it my comments??

Sorry I thought my posting was clearly referring to the SWF owner that is in the topic of discussion (ie the "husband" who made the accusations about Mrs Turnsock's Lab "going for" their SWF and how it was stressing "everyone at the park").

Edited May 6, 2010 by Hetzer

[Crisovar]

Threads like this remind me why I don't use off leash parks, too many rude dogs, too many ignorant owners, too many opportunities for something to go wrong.

If a large rude dog bounces up to and all over my small dog and injures it or frightens it my dog is at fault, too timid shouldn't be there, if a rude dog bounces into the face of my large dog and my dog tells it to piss off, my dog is at fault, DA unsocialised shouldn't be there.

Staying away seems the option.

Meanwhile rude dogs bounce their way through life unrestrained because they are only young, only playing etc etc.

[Erny]

Your statement "among the most dangerous dogs" is so ridiculous it is laughable and yes 9 times out of 10 the lab is friendly - pity you can't take a leaf out of the lab's book

Labs are so dangerous that they are the most popular breed in Australia, US, UK etc and used as guide dogs, sniffer dogs, therapy dogs etc etc . The fact that our beloved breed is so renowned for its awesome temperament, is so intelligent, so good looking and has so much visibility thru its role as a "service dog" engenders a lot of jealousy in the dog world

I think what Di* is trying to say (my interpretation) is that because Labradors are (in general) a friendly, goofy, happy-go-lucky breed and are known well for it, that perhaps down at parks the owners 'ride' on that reputation as a substitution (whether that be a conscious or sub-conscious thing) to actual training and don't realise that even in their larking, they can be a bit daunting or potentially damaging.

Actually, I don't see that many labs down at the parks where I go - perhaps I'm just in an area where their population isn't as great as it might be somewhere else, and I wouldn't have 'pinned' them as a breed that cause me that sort of grief. Mind you, I don't really have much grief from any other breed of dog either - not in so far as bodily harm through joy is concerned.

But I can *see* where Di* might be coming from (not saying I agree with her statement as I have no idea of formal stats, but obviously she is writing from her own experience), because the general human population do see labs as the *friendly* dog and perhaps some owners rely on that and take those attitudes for granted, ie that no-one will mind.

Don't be too critical of Di*. I think she is seeing things through her own eyes and experience.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Erny

[Rebanne]

Threads like this remind me why I don't use off leash parks, too many rude dogs, too many ignorant owners, too many opportunities for something to go wrong.

If a large rude dog bounces up to and all over my small dog and injures it or frightens it my dog is at fault, too timid shouldn't be there, if a rude dog bounces into the face of my large dog and my dog tells it to piss off, my dog is at fault, DA unsocialised shouldn't be there.

Staying away seems the option.

Meanwhile rude dogs bounce their way through life unrestrained because they are only young, only playing etc etc.

:mad

the OP's dog is a rude dog and I can't fathom why they think it it ok to behave this way

[Mas1981]

My lab was chased by 5 chihuauas ( spelling?) today at the dog park, he was running away from them as they were growling at him and trying to bite his legs, while running away from them he took such care that even when they were running underneath him he never once stepped on them - obviously these dogs didnt get the memo that labs can be dangerous and aggressive

[Mas1981]

Threads like this remind me why I don't use off leash parks, too many rude dogs, too many ignorant owners, too many opportunities for something to go wrong.

If a large rude dog bounces up to and all over my small dog and injures it or frightens it my dog is at fault, too timid shouldn't be there, if a rude dog bounces into the face of my large dog and my dog tells it to piss off, my dog is at fault, DA unsocialised shouldn't be there.

Staying away seems the option.

Meanwhile rude dogs bounce their way through life unrestrained because they are only young, only playing etc etc.

:mad

the OP's dog is a rude dog and I can't fathom why they think it it ok to behave this way

The OP was on here asking for advice so I really dont think that your comment was necessary if she felt that his behaviour was fine she wouldnt be asking for advice now would she???

[Crisovar]

My lab was chased by 5 chihuauas ( spelling?) today at the dog park, he was running away from them as they were growling at him and trying to bite his legs, while running away from them he took such care that even when they were running underneath him he never once stepped on them - obviously these dogs didnt get the memo that labs can be dangerous and aggressive

Any dog can be aggressive and many are just down right rude, and yes Labs have been surrendered to our pound for both HA and DA and just like any other breed, and as long as people buy breeds like this thinking they have to do no training because they are the "perfect family Dog" and they have no need to put anything in to them they will continue this way.

[Mas1981]

My lab was chased by 5 chihuauas ( spelling?) today at the dog park, he was running away from them as they were growling at him and trying to bite his legs, while running away from them he took such care that even when they were running underneath him he never once stepped on them - obviously these dogs didnt get the memo that labs can be dangerous and aggressive

Any dog can be aggressive and many are just down right rude, and yes Labs have been surrendered to our pound for both HA and DA and just like any other breed, and as long as people buy breeds like this thinking they have to do no training because they are the "perfect family Dog" and they have no need to put anything in to them they will continue this way.

I agree with you they do need training just like ANY other dog, they are not a magic breed of dog that are born fully trained to sit, drop and come on recall- there are no such dogs.