Reflection In Dogs Eyes

[tlc]

Hi Guys, I was just wondering, I have been noticing for a long time now with Lacy (she is 3) in certain lights she has a kind of orangey/red reflection in her eyes that I never notice with the other 3. I have googled and found an explaination just wondering if anyone else notices this with thier dogs and is thier any other explaination for it?

this is the explaination that I found....

The colored reflection from the eyes of dogs comes from a layer of tissue at the back of the eye (the choroid) that contains blood vessels, brown pigment cells, and, in most dogs, a shiny cell layer (the tapetum) covering mostly the upper half. This tapetum probably improves animals' vision at night. It may be yellow, green, blue, orange, or variations in between those colors. So the tapetum is the usual source of a dog's eye reflection. Some dogs, though, have very small tapeta or none at all and they show a very dull reflection or none at all. In other dogs, especially dogs with certain hair coat colors (liver, orange-brown) or with blue eyes (irises), very little pigment is present in the back of the eye and the blood vessels that are normally hidden by this pigment are visible and make the reflection bright red.

Lacy also has more orangy red reflection in photos with the flash a few examples below, photos taken all around the same time with flash in the same room.

Lacy has the reflection and nneither of the boys do, this could also be the angle the photos is taken but I notice it a lot.

So after all the info I have read on the subject, I am now confused, is it that the more reflection the better the eyes or worse? According to the above explaination the bigger the tapetum the more reflection and the better the dog will see at night, but by that explaination if a dog has little to no reflection they possibly have very small or no tapetum, so wouldn't that mean they would have poor vision especially at night??

I hope I am making sense and that maybe someone in the know can put it in simpler terms so I can get my head around it.

Edited May 5, 2010 by tlc

[Greytmate]

Coconut has a bright red reflection from her eyes. In most greyhounds the reflection is green, but she is an unusual coloured dog.

[t-time]

Coconut has a bright red reflection from her eyes. In most greyhounds the reflection is green, but she is an unusual coloured dog.

She would have minimal pigment in her choroid and you'd have visible blood cells making her eye reflection more red.

So after all the info I have read on the subject, I am now confused, is it that the more reflection the better the eyes or worse? According to the above explaination the bigger the tapetum the more reflection and the better the dog will see at night, but by that explaination if a dog has little to no reflection they possibly have very small or no tapetum, so wouldn't that mean they would have poor vision especially at night??

Lacey would be similar to Coconut as I notice she has liver/dark brown pigment so her red blood cells behind her eye would also be more visible.

This has nothing to do with how much tapetum she has :p

The *amount* of reflection has nothing to do with the *colour* of the reflection.

A smaller tapetum would be indicated by a dull reflection or no reflection in which case, yes, the dogs' night vision might be worse (although do note that the words "probably improves night vision" as what is quoted so tapetum might have nothing to do with night vision!!).

But you are getting pigment and colour confused with tapetum.

To make it simpler for you prolly break down the paragraph you bolded.

The colored reflection from the eyes of dogs comes from a layer of tissue at the back of the eye (the choroid) that contains blood vessels, brown pigment cells, and, in most dogs, a shiny cell layer (the tapetum) covering mostly the upper half.

This tapetum probably improves animals' vision at night. It may be yellow, green, blue, orange, or variations in between those colors. So the tapetum is the usual source of a dog's eye reflection.

Some dogs, though, have very small tapeta or none at all and they show a very dull reflection or none at all.

In other dogs, especially dogs with certain hair coat colors (liver, orange-brown) or with blue eyes (irises), very little pigment is present in the back of the eye and the blood vessels that are normally hidden by this pigment are visible and make the reflection bright red.

Hope that makes sense! :p

Edited May 5, 2010 by t-time

[Flick_Mac]

T-time you're mostly right... the tapetum lucidum does give animals their night vision, therefore a less reflection could mean a smaller area of the back of the eye is 'tapetum'. The colour is actually the tapetum - it's the way light is absorbed and reflected off the cells in that area that gives the greeny/organgy reflection. Cats tend to have much better night vision than dogs so you'll see lots of reflection from their eyes.

[t-time]

Thanks Flick Mac - I was purely going by the information offered by the OP - I'm no scientist!

But that's interesting that the tapetum is indeed responsible for the night vision! :p

[persephone]

Around here at night it's like watching traffic lights! We have Koolies and Koolie X's .. so ,according to colouring, eyes are green/orange or red ! Handy for ID'ing dogs in the dark

[tlc]

Does anyone else notice a lot of reflection during daylight hour, not necessarily night time? In certain light during the day I still notice the orangy reflection in Lacys eyes occasionally, this I have never noticed on another dog. It's hard to explain but also doesn't seem normal, hence all the questions!

Greytmate, do you notice reflection during the day with coconut? I'm wondering if it is only dogs eyes that glow red that still reflect at times during the day in certain light.

[GoldenGirl85]

My girls both have green, but I notice Lexis more than Tessas

[Paulp]

Does anyone else notice a lot of reflection during daylight hour, not necessarily night time? In certain light during the day I still notice the orangy reflection in Lacys eyes occasionally, this I have never noticed on another dog. It's hard to explain but also doesn't seem normal, hence all the questions!

Greytmate, do you notice reflection during the day with coconut? I'm wondering if it is only dogs eyes that glow red that still reflect at times during the day in certain light.

If the light is coming from behind you towards your dog then you should see the reflection, especially if they are in a dim area. eg, if they are in the house and your are looking at them from outside

The tapetum sits right behind the layer of cells that contain the visual pigments. There are gaps between these cells so not all photons that pass into the eye hit one, the tapetum reflects these missed photons back so there is a second chance that they will hit a pigment cell. During the day there are so many photons hitting the eye that it doesn't matter if some miss the pigment cells so there is no selective pressure to develop one which is why we humans don't have one and our eyes reflect red (cause the photons are bouncing off the blood vessels at the back of the eye).

There was a thread a while back about the colour variations in eye reflection in dogs but I can't remember the reason (one of my dogs has a yellow reflection and the other green).

[Greytmate]

During the day her eyes look almost the same as Woody's eyes.

I am wondering if in the early days of breed development whether red eye reflection was selectively bred away from? Or whether there is something associated with that particular pigment gene that brings with it another undesirable characteristic?

Do any breeds commonly have red eyes in the individuals that meet the breed standard for eye and nose colour?

[MolassesLass]

My choc BCs have red reflections but the Bullmastiff has green.

[Greytmate]

This is Woody. His eyes shine pretty gold.

I will try to get a pic of Coco tonight. Her eyes shine pure deep blood red.

I would say that Woody does have the pigmented tapenum, Coconut has no pigment there.

[Paulp]

During the day her eyes look almost the same as Woody's eyes.

I am wondering if in the early days of breed development whether red eye reflection was selectively bred away from? Or whether there is something associated with that particular pigment gene that brings with it another undesirable characteristic?

Do any breeds commonly have red eyes in the individuals that meet the breed standard for eye and nose colour?

There was an article on catalyst a while ago that was about how dogs with flat faces have different visual structures in the retina to those with long noses (from memory those with flat faces had the cones concentrated in a circle like humans whilst long nosed dogs had them in a band), I would not be surprised if the breeding that changed this in the flat faced dogs also effected other visual structures as well (what colour do pugs eyes reflect?).

Edited May 6, 2010 by Paulp

[Greytmate]

There was an article on catalyst a while ago that was about how dogs with flat faces have different visual structures in the retina to those with long noses (from memory those with flat faces had the cones concentrated in a circle like humans whilst long nosed dags had them in a band), I would not be surprised if the breeding that changed this in the flat faced dogs also effected other visual structures as well (what colour do pugs eyes reflect?).

99.9% of greyhounds don't have liver pigmentation, and so have the usual greeny eye shine.

[Greytmate]

Coconut's pretty red eyes.