Is The Apbt A Lost Cause?

[BoStoNmAdNeSs]

APBT is a lost cause and always will be until numpty owners are legislated against.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Bull Terr(ific)

[lovemesideways]

From what I have seen, heard and experienced. The APBT is a breed with a huge amount of drive. I think of their drive the same way I think of any working line breed.

Can you imagine a working line German Shepherd in the hands of some Joe Average who had never owned a dog and just thought they looked "cool"??

I see disaster!

In fact, I have seen disaster.

And yet, the APBT or some cross thereof is owned by every idiot out there who has no idea what to do with them!

I voted Not Sure. Because I don't know enough about the BSL.

[RottnBullies]

I disagree with what's being said about APBT supporters In not accepting etc, I haven't met one and that's In real life, here, or the many other APBT forums I frequent where this Is the norm. They DO accept, They DO Know and They DO acknowledge their breeds history and what they are capable of! The APBT Is not In a league of their own In regards to being DA or capable of killing other dogs and that Is a fact. Many Pit dogs back In the day were actually family dogs as well, but of course most people seem to disregard this bit. Especially the ones Intent on just demonizing this breed and really have no other Interest. Most APBT owners also acknowledge that the breed Is attracted to the undesirable, but again this Is not solely an APBT problem, and people shouldn't tar all APBT owners with the same brush! Please excuse my posts format as I'm having problems since I did an update this morning

[APBT]

I disagree with what's being said about APBT supporters In not accepting etc, I haven't met one and that's In real life, here, or the many other APBT forums I frequent where this Is the norm. They DO accept, They DO Know and They DO acknowledge their breeds history and what they are capable of! The APBT Is not In a league of their own In regards to being DA or capable of killing other dogs and that Is a fact. Many Pit dogs back In the day were actually family dogs as well, but of course most people seem to disregard this bit. Especially the ones Intent on just demonizing this breed and really have no other Interest. Most APBT owners also acknowledge that the breed Is attracted to the undesirable, but again this Is not solely an APBT problem, and people shouldn't tar all APBT owners with the same brush! Please excuse my posts format as I'm having problems since I did an update this morning

Well sed. The denial of the breeds history is the last thing an APBT owner has to worry about. The Dogmen of the past are Respected in producing These great dogs.

[mr.mister]

As much as it hurts to say this, Yes. Yes I do.

[Cosmolo]

What Cordelia said.

I fear for the American Staffy too- acknowledgement of any breeds characteristics is so important. I know someone who has 2 am staff littermates (pedigree) with serious dog aggression issues. They wanted happy go lucky dog park social type dogs. They should have been directed towards another breed. Denial is not a helpful thing.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Cosmolo

[felix]

I disagree with what's being said about APBT supporters In not accepting etc, I haven't met one and that's In real life, here, or the many other APBT forums I frequent where this Is the norm. They DO accept, They DO Know and They DO acknowledge their breeds history and what they are capable of! The APBT Is not In a league of their own In regards to being DA or capable of killing other dogs and that Is a fact.

Unfortunately I have met more than a few, in person or on various fora. The APBT is in a league of their own when BSL comes to place. At least at the moment.

Many Pit dogs back In the day were actually family dogs as well, but of course most people seem to disregard this bit. Especially the ones Intent on just demonizing this breed and really have no other Interest.

I don't think that many people on this forum are intent to demonize the breed. Quite opposite, actually. I am not a huge fan of the breed, actually I am not a fan at all, but I am against BSL regardless.

Most APBT owners also acknowledge that the breed Is attracted to the undesirable, but again this Is not solely an APBT problem, and people shouldn't tar all APBT owners with the same brush!

Regardless how true this is, claims that there are other breeds with same traits are more likely to get those other breeds into the trouble with BSL than they can help APBT. And as for taring all APBT owners with the same brush (I suppose you mean by the general public, because again I don't think that is the view here), many owners did help the whole hysteria in a negative way. You may not like it, you may disagree, but it happened and is still happening.

[geo]

I don't think that many people on this forum are intent to demonize the breed. Quite opposite, actually. I am not a huge fan of the breed, actually I am not a fan at all, but I am against BSL regardless.

Why are you not a fan of the breed? not that you have to love all breeds, just curious..

I think they're great, but again all dogs are different and approach each dog as a dog not a breed.

[felix]

Why are you not a fan of the breed? not that you have to love all breeds, just curious..

I think they're great, but again all dogs are different and approach each dog as a dog not a breed.

Over the years I met some pretty bad examples of the breed. I know that it was not the dogs' fault but the 'colourful' characters that owned them, but still I kinda lost interest in them, which is pitty because I agree they can be great dogs in right hands.

[geo]

Why are you not a fan of the breed? not that you have to love all breeds, just curious..

I think they're great, but again all dogs are different and approach each dog as a dog not a breed.

Over the years I met some pretty bad examples of the breed. I know that it was not the dogs' fault but the 'colourful' characters that owned them, but still I kinda lost interest in them, which is pitty because I agree they can be great dogs in right hands.

I think that has been my experience with SWF.

I followed a link to www.pbrc.net and they have some good educational advice on 'poppys place' tag, which we're going to take to our local school and parents group, and hopefully make a difference to them and their parents point of view, teach a little bit and hope it spreads.

[Black Bronson]

The problem is the general public perception of the APBT which isn't good. There have been other polls on the ABPT before amoungst the general public and large percentages of people wanting them gone. In reality, I can't see anyone with the political powers to overturn BSL, lay their necks on the line in support of the APBT when so many people hate them. Politically, the majority view will always be supported not a minority group in most cases. It would have to reach a point where the general public majority thinks the APBT is ok before we see any positive action IMHO unfortunately.

[Abigail]

I'll never give up on having them given the same status as, say, Labradors.

Never going to happen.

Labs don't have a genetic predisposition for fighting with or killing other dogs.

Fact is (and one of the reasons BSL debates are often unrealistic) is the often blatant refusal by the ABPT's staunch supporters to accept or acknowledge what they were bred for and what they still have a predisposition to do if not raised very carefully.

For the most part.. the amount of socialising a Lab needs to remain dog friendly is vastly different to the work needed to establish and maintain a dog friendly ABPT (and yes, I know there are dog friendly ABPT out there... but it isn't the 'norm' for them to be accepting of most other dogs off the bat).

Labs are bred for their amiable nature... and always have been. (yep, there are some not very nice ones out there.. but it is quite uncommon to find one inherently dog aggressive).

WELL SAID

[spottychick]

DOL is for the promotion of ANKC registered pure breeds not unregistered breeds like APBT.

Really? I didn't know that? What about all those sections/threads/posts about rescue dogs and pounds and stuff? I'm a bit taken aback by this info.

But in any case, I don't see the point of this comment in regards to the topic of this thread.

I'm not fond of APBTs to be honest - I've had so many bad experiences with them but I've also had bad experiences with kelpies, border collies, blue heelers, German Shepherds even a vicious lunatic springer spaniel once. Unfortunately the bad experiences have been more frequent and more severe with APBTs but every single time the owner has been a nasty piece of work. I always feel sorry for the dog because I can see why it's behaving so badly - it isn't having a nice life. Clearly it's not the breed that's the problem and to me it's stupid to think it is.

So I hope it is not a lost cause for these dogs because I'm positive if they were kept out of the hands of certain people we wouldn't be having this discussion.

This is an interesting comment given that we don't actually have that many purebred APBTs in Australia compared to other breeds of dog. How is it that you've had so many bad experiences with them?

Well my guess is they probably weren't ALL pure bred if there aren't many purebreed APBTs in existence. There seem to be an awful lot of pitty crosses around.

That in itself is clearly a problem but doesnt take away from my negative experience of these dogs, purebreed or not. And yes I do know what they look like (I found the pitty in that site ).

And it does not alter the fact that the dog that recently viciously attacked my dalmatian girl with no warning, had her around the throat snarling and carrying on while trying to flip her on her back, was a pitbull - I know where the dog came from and have met the dogs it was bred from - neither of whom are vicious. But the owner of the dog is a complete moron, wont desex her, leaves her tied to a stake in his unfenced back yard, where any passing dog can access her, and just lets her have puppies then shoots them when they're born. I once found the body of a pitbull-cross on a walking track in town. He was a young male dog, very beautiful and had just been shot and dumped there. Later I found out it was the same moron who had shot it - because it wandered onto his lawn when his pitty was on heat. I also discovered the poor dog that was killed was actually her off-spring - one of the few who had survived the owners initial shooting of puppys because a local had rescued it.

My point was that it's not the dogs fault anyway - regardless of the breed/mix - it's about the owners. I am simply being honest about my experiences but I am also being supportive here.

[geo]

I'll never give up on having them given the same status as, say, Labradors.

Never going to happen.

Labs don't have a genetic predisposition for fighting with or killing other dogs.

Fact is (and one of the reasons BSL debates are often unrealistic) is the often blatant refusal by the ABPT's staunch supporters to accept or acknowledge what they were bred for and what they still have a predisposition to do if not raised very carefully.

For the most part.. the amount of socialising a Lab needs to remain dog friendly is vastly different to the work needed to establish and maintain a dog friendly ABPT (and yes, I know there are dog friendly ABPT out there... but it isn't the 'norm' for them to be accepting of most other dogs off the bat).

Labs are bred for their amiable nature... and always have been. (yep, there are some not very nice ones out there.. but it is quite uncommon to find one inherently dog aggressive).

WELL SAID

Bull breeds have always drawn me to them, from boxers to staffies to pitbulls.. we all get something different from our pets.

I thought labs were bred as gun dogs? i actually have seen them working in trials believe it or not!! fit healthy working labs...

I think all dogs are bred for their friendly nature, i haven't met a pity breeder who wants to breed a HA dog, as APBT posted DA is something that doesn't bother me too much (though i've always trained my dogs to be dog friendly). Having a DA dog no matter what the breed, and there's plenty of them just makes it a little harder when out in public with other dog owners who think all dogs are dog friendly, doesn't work that way in nature and sure as hell doesn't work at the beach!

[ILK]

I voted not sure.... Only because we will never ever be able to stop "STUPID" dog owners of every breed and unfortunately the PB is a sensationalised media victim of stupid owners.

I grew up with many people around me owning this breed as it was a very popular breed to have in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney. I never saw a dog with issues and back in those days everyones dog was off leash including my kelpie. Never once did I see a problem with people or D.A. This has to come down to the fact that it has nothing to do with the breed itself.

A teenage girlfriend of mine owned two of them. They used to jump on the old 6ft wooden fences with only their paws and face hanging over to bark at passers by (too see them from their own yard was as you could see their dangling legs) Any stranger could actually have a giggle stop and pat them. They were as harmless as anything. Such a beautiful strong breed that is being destroyed by human mantality.

[HeavyPaws]

I'll never give up on having them given the same status as, say, Labradors.

Never going to happen.

Labs don't have a genetic predisposition for fighting with or killing other dogs.

Fact is (and one of the reasons BSL debates are often unrealistic) is the often blatant refusal by the ABPT's staunch supporters to accept or acknowledge what they were bred for and what they still have a predisposition to do if not raised very carefully.

For the most part.. the amount of socialising a Lab needs to remain dog friendly is vastly different to the work needed to establish and maintain a dog friendly ABPT (and yes, I know there are dog friendly ABPT out there... but it isn't the 'norm' for them to be accepting of most other dogs off the bat).

Labs are bred for their amiable nature... and always have been. (yep, there are some not very nice ones out there.. but it is quite uncommon to find one inherently dog aggressive).

Origins of pitbull- cattle herding

[RottnBullies]

Pit Bull dogs were originally bred to herd bulls & cattle and be farm dogs, catch hogs and aide the farmer and the family, not fight their own kind. This is what people tend to forget, farm dogs have to be sound, with a very human friendly temperament or else they are culled, no exceptions. The Pit Bull dog was bred to be sound around dogs and people when they were bred by responsible people/farmers that knew what they were breeding for, which was gameness, the willingness to complete a task at any cost, and sound dogs with even temperaments and zero aggression towards people. Dog aggression towards dogs or prey does not necessarily bleed over towards humans. They are two different things. Many people either don't know this or tend to forget it.

Shame some people just like to harp on the negatives..... The Pit bull was not first and foremost Or ONLY bred as a fighting dog! The sooner people move on from that the better

[Cordelia]

They may well have been used as cattle dogs, Heavy Paws.. just like the Rottweiler was a cart dog and the Labrador is a Gun Dog...

BUT.. there greater history is that of a Pit fighter. THAT is the more prominant origin of the ABPT and THAT is the behaviour you are fighting against in this breed (and a few other bull breeds). Some breeds ARE more inclined to show dog aggression and even if they don't start it.. cause massive injuries when they finish it.

Almost any Staffy breeder will tell you that their dogs have a predisposition to being narky with other dogs BUT will also explain that in the right environment, with the right family and with A LOT of socialisation as youngsters, reduce the incidence of dog-dog aggression enormously...

Pitty owners rarely do it.. they tend to deflect onto other information about how they are wonderful with kids, a few have saved people's lives, were originally bred for cattle herding.. all great things, but again I say.. the refusal to accept and discuss (with the exception of a few here) the base fact that APBT's DO have a genetic predisposition to dog aggression.

I'm not a supporter of BSL ... but I'm not a supporter of glossing over bad traits in breeds that NEED to bred out and/or culled.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Cordelia

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

They may well have been used as cattle dogs, Heavy Paws.. just like the Rottweiler was a cart dog and the Labrador is a Gun Dog...

BUT.. there greater history is that of a Pit fighter. THAT is the more prominant origin of the ABPT and THAT is the behaviour you are fighting against in this breed (and a few other bull breeds). Some breeds ARE more inclined to show dog aggression and even if they don't start it.. cause massive injuries when they finish it.

Almost any Staffy breeder will tell you that their dogs have a predisposition to being narky with other dogs BUT will also explain that in the right environment, with the right family and with A LOT of socialisation as youngsters, reduce the incidence of dog-dog aggression enormously...

Pitty owners rarely do it.. they tend to deflect onto other information about how they are wonderful with kids, a few have saved people's lives, were originally bred for cattle herding.. all great things, but again I say.. the refusal to accept and discuss (with the exception of a few here) the base fact that APBT's DO have a genetic predisposition to dog aggression.

I'm not a supporter of BSL ... but I'm not a supporter of glossing over bad traits in breeds that NEED to bred out and/or culled.

Well said. I get sick of reading how lovely they are with people, so are my own dogs (all rescued) and so are many other breeds. My dogs are also bulletproof where other dogs are concerned and that is a trait that I seek in any dog I take on.

I won't be popular when I say that I would like to see the back of any breed that is generally dog aggressive. These dogs frequently attract the wrong sort of owner who don't care about the lives they may ruin through their dogs' uncontrolled actions.

[geo]

I'm not a supporter of BSL ... but I'm not a supporter of glossing over bad traits in breeds that NEED to bred out and/or culled.

Well said. I get sick of reading how lovely they are with people, so are my own dogs (all rescued) and so are many other breeds. My dogs are also bulletproof where other dogs are concerned and that is a trait that I seek in any dog I take on.

I won't be popular when I say that I would like to see the back of any breed that is generally dog aggressive. These dogs frequently attract the wrong sort of owner who don't care about the lives they may ruin through their dogs' uncontrolled actions.

So you're saying you're dogs will behave no matter how much another dog annoys it? Pitbull breeders are more than aware of their traits and will happily take any bad stock out of the breeding program.

You see the common misconception is that all apbt breeders are morons, sure enough the bad ones are there but nowhere near as many as other breeds, i wish people would stop harping on about the apbt like is some flesh eating monster that is totally uncontrollable..

i mean how on earth do they breed, what with all that dog aggression just waiting to be let loose and kill..

if people would stop humanising dogs and think that they should all be friends we'd be a lot better off.