What Is So Bad About A Halti/gentle Leader

[Fiona'n'Theo]

Hi Erny and Corvus,

Thanks for the replies - I take Theo to obedience and after class today asked to be shown how to use the check chain properly so I hopefully it will work out this week. He's generally pretty good and the check chain doesn't irritate half as much as the halti. I'm using plenty of food rewards and praise so hopefully the check chain won't spook him too much - he does heel tons better with a liver treat in my left hand!!

Cheers Fiona

[Erny]

Thanks for the replies - I take Theo to obedience and after class today asked to be shown how to use the check chain properly so I hopefully it will work out this week.

Hope it works out for you. When you were 'shown' the how to's of the check chain, did it help to make at least some difference to yourself and your dog there and then?

Edited May 22, 2010 by Erny

[Fiona'n'Theo]

Thanks for the replies - I take Theo to obedience and after class today asked to be shown how to use the check chain properly so I hopefully it will work out this week.

Hope it works out for you. When you were 'shown' the how to's of the check chain, did it help to make at least some difference to yourself and your dog there and then?

Thanks Erny, yes it did although he is much easier to handle at the end of a class. He does most things in the class really well but he does like to drag the chain when he's had enough and doesn't seem to like doing u turns. My biggest problem though is when starting a walk he will pull and I don't have enough slack to check him so I get towed along. I'm guessing I just have to have treats handy all the time?

[Black Bronson]

If you really want to use a check chain or give corrections to teach LLW, just make sure you're consistent and careful about what the dog might also be associating the checks with. Back when I got my first dog I went to obedience classes with her like a good little dog owner and they taught me how to teach a heel with checks. Only thing was, the dog wasn't much of a puller and so I didn't use corrections between heeling practise. About the only thing she learnt from it all was to walk as far away from me as possible because it was only when she walked close to me that she got corrections. Pretty crap when you realise your dog has an aversion to being near you on walks. It took years for that aversion to wear off. Conversely, my current two dogs have been rewarded heavily for walking close to us on leash and as a result often gravitate close to our sides on their own. They have also been heavily rewarded for coming over when they hear their names, so it's easier to deal with distractions.

You corrected the dog when in position...........why???

[melzawelza]

If you really want to use a check chain or give corrections to teach LLW, just make sure you're consistent and careful about what the dog might also be associating the checks with. Back when I got my first dog I went to obedience classes with her like a good little dog owner and they taught me how to teach a heel with checks. Only thing was, the dog wasn't much of a puller and so I didn't use corrections between heeling practise. About the only thing she learnt from it all was to walk as far away from me as possible because it was only when she walked close to me that she got corrections. Pretty crap when you realise your dog has an aversion to being near you on walks. It took years for that aversion to wear off. Conversely, my current two dogs have been rewarded heavily for walking close to us on leash and as a result often gravitate close to our sides on their own. They have also been heavily rewarded for coming over when they hear their names, so it's easier to deal with distractions.

You corrected the dog when in position...........why???

I agree, why would you correct the dog when it is next to you?? of course she's going to walk far out, you'd taught her to do that!!

You're supposed to do the opposite, correct when she's NOT next to you (Assuming the dog had already been taught 'heel'), so that then being next to you is the area she wants to hang out in.

[corvus]

I didn't correct her when she was in position. I corrected her when she was leaving position. It's a shite method of teaching a heel that no one who knows anything about dogs uses anymore. I was 13 at the time, though. I didn't know any better.

Nonetheless, the warning is still valid for any punishment, including those used in a much more sensible way. You have to be careful what else the dog might associate the punishment with. Clearly the method I was taught was too heavy on the corrections and too light on the rewards. Sadly, that method is still being taught in some dog training clubs.

[aj2251]

If I may add to the halti debate...

I use a halti on my 2yr old rottie and a harness on my 1yr old british bulldog that I walk at the same time. I make no apologies for it, it works for us all.

It wasn't that hard to desensitise Zoe to the halti either, I put it on her to eat and to go to the beach for off lead running and play at dog park. She now sees me take out the halti and happy comes over and sticks her nose out.

Would I like to walk her on a flat collar? Yes, but she does enjoy chasing one of the many bush turkeys in our area and when walking 2 at the same time I have to be able to hold her back with one hand. Note, we did obedience for over a year and I had gotten her to the stage of doing it without the halti, we were working at some things off lead, but if a bush turkey ran passed, it'd be all over red rover! (I'm pretty sure that would be the case with most of the other dogs there too)

Edited May 27, 2010 by aj2251

[huski]

Aj don't you worry about injury if she lunges after bush turkeys on the head collar? Or do you find she doesn't Lunge after them when she's wearing it?

[Lucy's mama]

What is a PPCollar?

[Erny]

What is a PPCollar?

"Pressure Point Collar" aka "Pinch" collar. They look awful. They look barbaric. But they are not. You need to know about them and how they work before you close your mind to them. So if you see a picture of it, don't conclude from what you see.