What Is So Bad About A Halti/gentle Leader

[megan_]

Hi All,

Can you please let me know what is so bad about a halti? My cousin bought one for her 6 month old Std Schnauzer and my first reaction was to pull a face . Obviously, teaching the dog to walk with a collar and lead is ideal but she has a very bad back and is struggling. She is going to see a trainer but needs some advice in the interim.

What is so bad about them? I seem to recall something about shutting dogs down??

Is there a no pull harness that she can use in the interim?

Thanks,

Megan

Edited May 4, 2010 by megan_

[dandybrush]

I use a halti on my dog. I love it it gives me more control, I have one that when he pulls it gets tighter...teaching him not to pull. I use it purely as a training tool, granted he doesnt like it but he bears it once its on and acts just the same, only lighter on the leash.

when i say i use it to train, my dog pulls on the lead (very bad habit) so i give him 1 chance, i go for my walk start with the halti off, i carry it soon as he pulls i say "to bad" and it goes on, he hardly pulls on our daily walks now cause he knows whats going to happen if he does. He mostly wears it in new/exciting situations so im not constantly tugging at his throat, he pulls on himself for pulling on the leash. So i see nothing wrong with haltis, if it makes it easier for the owner. Long as they dont use them like a check chain and tug sharply on them, that is wrong in my books

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

i think that if a dog has a halti on and the dog walker doesnt know what they are doing and pulls on the halti too hard then it can cause a neck injury

[Aidan]

If your cousin has physical limitations that would put her or her dog in danger then a head halter is a useful, responsible tool to gain leverage.

You must spend some time initially counter-conditioning any adverse reaction the dog may have to the head halter. I teach dogs to put their nose through the loop voluntarily (using clicker training) before I do the clip up, then work on brief, positive exposures.

I strongly recommend a double-ended (aka "balance") leash. The light clip is attached to the head halter, the heavier end attached to a flat collar. That way the dog is being walked on the flat collar, but the head halter is immediately accessible if required. Used this way, there is very little for the dog to protest about, after all there is rarely any pressure on the head collar. If fitted correctly (nose loop quite loose but not able to come off, head loop very tight so that it doesn't move about) it should be very comfortable and all the dog really has to get used to is having "something" there.

This approach does require the dog to be trained to walk on a flat collar, and the sooner the better. Professional help is a good idea.

I have seen no data confirming any risks associated with head collar use. A veterinary chiropractor wrote an article that listed no evidence but proposed a theoretical risk.

[huski]

A couple of articles that really encapsulate why *I* don't like them and wouldn't chose to use one;

http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=31

http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/54/97/

[Bully]

I've seen people walking dogs wearing halti/head collars with extenda leads I did point out the danger to someone at the beach one day but felt as tho' they thought that I should mind my own business

[persephone]

If your cousin has physical limitations that would put her or her dog in danger then a head halter is a useful, responsible tool to gain leverage.

You must spend some time initially counter-conditioning any adverse reaction the dog may have to the head halter. I teach dogs to put their nose through the loop voluntarily (using clicker training) before I do the clip up, then work on brief, positive exposures.

I strongly recommend a double-ended (aka "balance") leash. The light clip is attached to the head halter, the heavier end attached to a flat collar. That way the dog is being walked on the flat collar, but the head halter is immediately accessible if required. Used this way, there is very little for the dog to protest about, after all there is rarely any pressure on the head collar. If fitted correctly (nose loop quite loose but not able to come off, head loop very tight so that it doesn't move about) it should be very comfortable and all the dog really has to get used to is having "something" there.

This approach does require the dog to be trained to walk on a flat collar, and the sooner the better. Professional help is a good idea.

I have seen no data confirming any risks associated with head collar use. A veterinary chiropractor wrote an article that listed no evidence but proposed a theoretical risk.

I have trained quite a few dogs (labs, ADULT) to a headcollar..as they were therapy dogs belonging to people with pretty severe physical limitations (stroke/wheelchair, cerebral palsy) The owner (your friend) really should get a professional to give her some help Training her to correctly use whatever tool she is most comfortable with, and/or using different methods to get the pup in synch with its owner .

A headcollar used correctly on a dog which is suited to its use can be a helpful tool .

[megan_]

thanks everyone. I have told her that I'd find some info on them for her, but I've also said that it is better to use one and take the dog for a walk than not take the dog out at all.

[Staranais]

If the dog's not worried about wearing it, then I see nothing wrong with it.

But please don't let her use it with a long line or a flexi leash - you don't need to be a canine chiropractor to know that hitting the end of a long line and spinning around with your neck as a fulcrum is bad news.

[Skitch]

Hmm.. I didn't know there was such a negative feeling about haltis! I suppose the fact that they are freely available for relatively cheap (and there are several 'knock off' brands that are of lesser quality) makes them dangerous because people with little idea about training dogs or handling them correctly can buy them. Being that they around the dogs head and nose there is a possibility of injuring the dogs neck if you jerk on them suddenly and god forbid use them with an extenda lead.. how stupid!

I've used haltis to train all of my dogs to walk nicely.. never had any problems with them but I was taught how to use them properly at an obedience school.

thanks everyone. I have told her that I'd find some info on them for her, but I've also said that it is better to use one and take the dog for a walk than not take the dog out at all.

Definitely agree with you here, I think your sister is doing the right thing. Perhaps she could join an obedience class if she has the time.. it would be a way for her dog to get exercise and would also be handy to teach him how to walk nicely on lead for her .

[huski]

For me one problem with head collar is that even if you use them properly they can still be highly aversive to the dog. Some dogs just don't like them and find wearing them very stressful. I've never seen the extreme reaction dogs can exhibit when put on a head collar (completely shutting down, rolling on the floor, scratching their face etc) with any other tool - prong, e-collar, martingale, check chain etc. I don't know of any other tool that requires such a massive desensitization process just to get the dog to wear the tool before you can even use it.

I don't doubt that they can be the right tool for some dogs, but I am just not a fan and I would never use one myself.

[Zug Zug]

I love the halti! The one thing that came between my dog and a 'never walking you again EVER' scenario when we first got her. She pulled until she choked for the entirety of her first 45 minute walk when we first got her. Awful. Bought a halti, put it on, and voila we walked calmly off into the sunset (the rest, as they say, is history).

I'm a strong advocate. I think it can take a lot of stress out of otherwise complex dog/human relationships, and give you some breathing room while you get the training side of things happening.

[Aidan]

I've never seen the extreme reaction dogs can exhibit when put on a head collar (completely shutting down, rolling on the floor, scratching their face etc) with any other tool - prong, e-collar, martingale, check chain etc. I don't know of any other tool that requires such a massive desensitization process just to get the dog to wear the tool before you can even use it.

Most dogs have already been conditioned to a collar, and the first time you attach a leash to a flat collar you often get a very similar reaction. The head halter doesn't hurt so there is no penalty for trying to take it off. The process of counter-conditioning isn't that big a deal, you just have to actually do it and I see that many people lack the competence. Then there are some dogs who just clearly don't like them, and part of that aforementioned competence is recognising that very small percentage.

I do prefer front-attaching harnesses for the general public - they are utterly fool-proof, though not quite as effective where someone might be injured by any amount of pulling. Prong collars are not available in Tasmania and also require a higher level of skill, although for the simple task of getting a dog to walk on a loose leash they are pretty much automatic (but that's not the only thing the dog is learning on a walk).

[corvus]

Haha, thanks Aidan. I wrote a post that was almost exactly the same last night and then sighed and deleted it before posting. When it comes down to it I have my vehement dislike of particular tools due to past experiences as well. It doesn't really matter to me how suitable those tools may be in certain circumstances, I would still avoid them like the plague. I have a weird aversion to collars. I hate them. I hate anything that tightens around a dog's neck in particular. Just my experiences talking. No reason for everyone to hate them, or for me to go on an anti-collar crusade.

To the OP, Haltis and GLs are not evil any more than any other training tool is. I know dogs that quite eagerly stick their noses through their Haltis when you hold them out and don't show any signs of finding them aversive. You just have to be sensible and honest about them and careful. Just like any other training tool.

[Prydenjoy]

My sister is a vet nurse and doesn't like halti's due to seeing dogs with corneal ulcers resulting from the dogs scratching to get it off their head. The dog MUST be counter conditioned to enjoy the halter being on their head, once that is done it is a marvelous device that can give people the ability to walk their dogs, who otherwise wouldn't be able to leave the house with them. I would be more likely to recommend a front clip harness because they are simply easier for most people, as they do not require so much "ground work" to get the dog to accept them. If the dog is already accepting the head halter I'd say stick with it, don't fix what isn't broken.

[Staranais]

When it comes down to it I have my vehement dislike of particular tools due to past experiences as well. It doesn't really matter to me how suitable those tools may be in certain circumstances, I would still avoid them like the plague. I have a weird aversion to collars. I hate them. I hate anything that tightens around a dog's neck in particular. Just my experiences talking. No reason for everyone to hate them, or for me to go on an anti-collar crusade.

And I think that's a really good point, Corvus.

I feel every type of collar will have at least some dogs or some situations that might benefit from it. I think a good trainer should know how to use almost every tool, or at least have enough knowledge that they know when it might be beneficial, rather than deciding any tool is "bad". Even though we regular dog owners might pick and choose which tools we prefer to use with our own dogs based merely on personal preferences, a good trainer should IMO be up to date about them all.

And that goes for head collars just as much as it does prong collars or e collars. It's just as silly to decide that head collars are universally useless or cruel, as to declare pinch collars or e collars universally useless or cruel.

I personally would not ever want to use a halti on my girl, but then again, I'm trying to avoid using a check or prong on her too. My aversive of first choice would actually be an e collar. But I wouldn't condemn anyone for using a head collar appropriately, any more than I'd want someone to judge me on my appropriate use of an e collar.

Slightly off topic, sorry. But I kind of think this thread might have been more useful if it was discussing good/bad ways or appropriate/inappropriate situations in which to use a halti, rather than us discussing whether a halti is "bad" or not. No offense to the OP intended.

[poodlefan]

I don't like any gadget being substituted for training and used by someone who doesn't fully understand it.

Haltis have their uses. However they are often used by people who don't understand how they should be and are employed in a manner contrary to the intention of the device.

Using Haltis to control lunging and fitting them to flexi leads are two common examples.

The idea of fitting one on a pup doesn't sit well with me. However if the owner has a bad back, it sure beats not walking the pup at all.

Edited May 5, 2010 by poodlefan

[spottychick]

I used to use and recommend haltis but have found a lot of dogs get very distressed wearing them and lots of people use them badly.

These days I recommend the front attaching harness like an Ezy Walker. I've seen the most incredible results with these harnesses even with the most boisterous and boofy dogs. I only recommend the front attached harness now and halties are pretty much off the menu.

[Black Bronson]

Head collars are more a suppression tool for poor leash behaviour.............they are not a training tool as such. Dogs pull and misbehave on leash from a lack of training process applied by the handler. I prefer a proper training technique employed to teach a dog leash behaviour, not a gadget that works only when worn which is generally the case with head collars and harnesses. A cronic leash puller is generally strong enough to handle a few good corrections on a choker with a loose leash walk achieved in less than 30 minutes in most cases.

[Loves Dogs]

I love the halti! The one thing that came between my dog and a 'never walking you again EVER' scenario when we first got her. She pulled until she choked for the entirety of her first 45 minute walk when we first got her. Awful. Bought a halti, put it on, and voila we walked calmly off into the sunset (the rest, as they say, is history).

I'm a strong advocate. I think it can take a lot of stress out of otherwise complex dog/human relationships, and give you some breathing room while you get the training side of things happening.

I like them. It stopped my 2 from pulling straight away. My female isnt usually a puller but when I walk both of mine together its a competition to see who can get infront. I have tried checks and food and my boisterous boy just didnt get the picture. I did try for a long time to train this out of him because I have heard of people thinking that the dog has a muzzle on and is aggresive so obviously I didnt want people thinking that but in the end it has been the best choice for us. If you can train your dog to walk on a loose lead another way that is great but if your having troubles like I did its worth a go. I did see the harness with the front latch and wondered how it went because I had this other stupid harness that was supposed to stop pulling but just tightened up under his arms and did nothing. I eneded up taking it back and getting the head collar. At my training club all the dogs that start obedience are required to have one and it is included in the registration fee and fitted properly.