Crazy Sbt Puppy

[westozmike]

After a very long search - my family is now the proud owner of a gorgeous Stafford Puppy.

She is now 14 weeks - we got her at 9 weeks.

Apart from the expected/normal mouthing and bite inhibition stuff we are going through atm - and she is getting better, I have an issue already with other dogs & pups.

She is just over the top (more so than the other SBTs at puppy school). Getting in other dogs faces and not backing off or dancing around like pups do. She makes a bee line straight to other dogs and jumps and nips at their faces and wants to play fight with no slowing down. When on a lead she is pulling to the point of choking herself when other dogs are there. She also appears to target dogs that give her a negative reaction i.e. those wimpering and running away or those growling at her.

I know she is only very young still - but this early behaviour is not positive and if she did it as an adult would no doubt come across as aggressive and get her into strife.

My intention is not to have her off lead wondering around - but I want her to show some self control around other dogs.

I actually have her at 2 puppy schools now to try and increase her exposure/socialisation. One school is a lot more controlled with very little off the lead time (though the instructor no longer allows her to be off lead); the other school is all off lead but I end up having to put her on as she is terrorising the other pups.

She comes from good stock and I have met both her mum and dad. I have also learnt this week that the breeder observed this behaviour early but did nothing to stop it until a week before we picked her up.

This forum has been great for advice so far - and I was hoping I may get some more help here.

Edited May 3, 2010 by westozmike

[Kavik]

What she needs to learn is how to be polite and say hi to other dogs instead of barelling in there to wrestle.

I would refrain from letting her continue this behaviour or it could become ingrained and how she thinks she should meet other dogs, and you are right, this could cause a lot of issues as she gets older. Many dogs (and owners!) would be very overwhelmed by such a welcome.

Instead of allowing her to rush up to other dogs offlead, have you done any introductions on lead? Have you done any focus work with her?

I would do focus work first, get a really good response to her name and/or recall command, and also I would do clicker work for attention, any time she looks at you, and build from there til you can do this with other dogs around and she chooses to look at you after seeing another dog.

For introductions, I would only let her do a sniff and say hi then get her attention and walk away, without letting her barrell the other dog. Best bet would to see a trainer for this, with a quiet, calm dog who is not going to react (or play ) with your pup while you do this.

Good luck!

I do actively avoid dogs who exhibit the behaviour of your pup, so it is good you are trying to fix it.

[Dogsfevr]

I would say if your asking the question here then the instructors arent helping you ??

One of the probelsm we see with many dogs who have attended puppy pre school is the free for all attitude without nowing when to switch off.

I would consider looking for a club where your pup can do more stimulating work than just sitting there learning to play.

It sounds like your pup would be better suited around adult dogs who are trained & wont react to your pup & with instructors who are more active in helping you

We board a number of staffies that fit your guys description,some got on top of it others didnt see it an issue until 12 months of age.

Good for you dealing with it early

[RallyValley]

Which puppy schools are you at?

[westozmike]

Thanks kavik: I am working on the recall with a long lead when no other distractions are around - she is doing very well at this. Her focus is definitely a problem with common distractions though - and so far she's not interested in treats at times like this (but I'm trying different treats hoping to find one she can't resist).

I don't know much about clicker training but from what I've read on DOL it sounds great - I'll give it a go.

Meets on a leash is mainly what I am doing - walking away after a few seconds or when she carries on.

Hi Showdog: I am not too happy with the free for all at the vet's puppy class. The other (obedience school) puppy class is much more controlled. Her behaviour is generally better around adult dogs - maybe I should look at more of these opportunities.

Valley CBR: I am at Karrinyup Small Animal Hospital (only been once so far) and Northern Suburbs Training & Obedience Dog Club in Carine (been 3 or 4 times).....I'm hoping atm that if I just keep going to the dog club through puppy classess and into the older classes she will get better.....with effective reinforcement at home and on walks of course.

Hopefully she hasn't jumped all over or chased your dog..

[RallyValley]

Have you got a old bitch that will give her a telling off available? Or would this not work? I have found this worked with Toby.

[westozmike]

Unfortunately no - I may just get down to the obedience class earlier and stay longer though this week - hanging around the older dogs rather than the pups...

[wuffles]

Our puppy had terrible manners with other dogs at first, and puppy school didn't help! What did help was controlled greetings with known, well-socialised older dogs. She very quickly learned that jumping on a dog's face was NOT an appropriate way to say hello!

Edited May 3, 2010 by wuffles

[RallyValley]

Unfortunately no - I may just get down to the obedience class earlier and stay longer though this week - hanging around the older dogs rather than the pups...

Make sure you talk to the owners before you let your pup greet thier dogs and tell them what she is likely to do. I have an old matron here who would have a good growl and maybe even a snap at a rude puppy, so expect that to happen at some point if your pup persists with the behaviour. Probably best not to let her play with dogs that are submissive and just let her carry on.

[WreckitWhippet]

Forget about puppy pre-school and wait the two weeks before you can attend formal obedience classes.

Socialisation for an SBT puppy should not be a free for all, it needs to be controlled and neither yourself or the current instructors are taking control of the situation.

It sounds like you have a typical high drive Stafford puppy, they are the best when it comes to learning and wanting to please you, you just need to learn how to harness that drive and get the best out of your pup/dog.

You need to go back to the very basics, getting your puppy to focus on you, learn her name and keep her attention. Work out what is the biggest reward for her, be it food, a toy or a clicker. Forget about letting her off with other puppies and dogs for the time being and attend classes.

When you have control of her and she will focus on you with distraction, then you can begin to introduce her to other pups on lead.

So far all she's learnt is that it's lots of fun to get off lead and terrorise the other pups, that's not your fault and there's a couple of instructors that need a kick up the bum.

[westozmike]

Thanks guys, some great advise.

This has got myself and my family worried so we are committed to stamping it out...

SBT123: I was a little shocked at the vet puppy school where it clearly was just a free for all - as I said earlier I ended-up putting my girl on a lead anyway despite others (including the instructor) saying things like "let her off, she has to learn, she's only playing".....I thought all along it was just reinforcing the bad behaviour.

The obedience class puppy school does not let her off the lead - and I have control over the interaction.....while she still has officially 1 or 2 weeks left in puppy school there, I'll talk to the trainer this week to see if she can go to the next class up for more formal obedience classess.

SBT123 (or others) do you have any thoughts on the type of lead/collar for a SBT? Halti / check chain / flat? I'm considering a halti at this point in time...while she has a long way to go with lead training of course - her flat collar is choking her quite badly when she interacts with other dogs / people....may very well be my technique (we're both still learning!!)

[WreckitWhippet]

I would be using a flat collar or a martingale, never a halti on a dog, there's the potential to cause damage to the dogs neck.

Spend some time on a focus exercise, that rewards the puppy. Put her on her leash ( it doesn't matter if she's not sitting ect, just let her be ) wait for a distraction and then call her name, as soon as she looks at you and you have her attention, reward her. If she doesn't look at you, give a slight tug on the leash and reward her when you have her attention.

It's a very basic exercise but it's one that I start with, with all of my dogs.

ETA: stop the interaction with other dogs for the time being, until you have control over the situtation and she is more focused on you and inclined to ignore the other dogs, in favour or your attention. At the moment, interacting with other dogs is far too exciting for her, she should only be allowed introduced and allowed to play when she is calmer.

She's not going to miss out on anything by not playing, it's far more important that she learn some manners and learn to focus on you at this age.

Edited May 4, 2010 by SBT123

[westozmike]

nice one - I really appreciate your time and advice on this.....

I'll give it a go....

ta

[corvus]

Ha! Sounds like Erik and Kivi's pal Mo, who is a small female SBT. She started out hammering Kivi from all sides until he got sick of her, which is really saying something for Kivi because he is pretty much the Ghandi of dogs when it comes to tolerance and passive resistance. Mo learnt on her own over a period of about 3 months to moderate her play. Kivi didn't help. He never did tell her off. I wouldn't have let it go down like that, but just goes to show that lots of socialisation can just kind of take care of over-the-top behaviour.

Mo and Kivi and Erik now get along famously and the crazy face biting is a thing of the past. She has even stopped trying to get their other friend Wags to play with her. He would grumble, but he never told her off either. She learnt more appropriate play behaviour before her puppy licence ran out. Her owner didn't do a thing to help her.

[Incavale]

if she did it as an adult would no doubt come across as aggressive and get her into strife.

That's not really correct. It's YOU that ends up in strife.

Going to an obedience class once a week is not going to solve the problem unless the exercises are practised continually to reinforce what's learnt.

[Clyde]

After a very long search - my family is now the proud owner of a gorgeous Stafford Puppy.

She is now 14 weeks - we got her at 9 weeks.

Apart from the expected/normal mouthing and bite inhibition stuff we are going through atm - and she is getting better, I have an issue already with other dogs & pups.

She is just over the top (more so than the other SBTs at puppy school). Getting in other dogs faces and not backing off or dancing around like pups do. She makes a bee line straight to other dogs and jumps and nips at their faces and wants to play fight with no slowing down.

Sounds just like my little 'darling'. He is a little older than yours and just coming through to the other side (I think/hope/pray). I don't let him near any dogs which I think he can walk all over and I find suitable older dogs to introduce him to that will put him in his place without terrifying him. It seems to be working. Instead of launching himself at other dogs faces or humping them he is now squirming a little and licking their mouth - he's still rude and annoying but he is learning there has to be some sort of pecking order and respect with other dogs.

Good luck!

[westozmike]

Thanks for your support Clyde - it's good to see there may be some light at the end of the tunnel if I keep working on it with her.

We went to Carine Open Space last night were the obedience class I go to do their agility training under lights....great spectacle.

Anyway, I was not going near the agility dogs (100 - 200 m away) and had her on a short (and sometimes long lead) just practising recall and focus with the distraction of the other dogs in the distance....there was good improvemnt over the 30 minutes we were there - though maybe she was just getting tired over this time - but either way I was pleased, and can see that I may be starting to get through to her when she's in "drive".

Thanks to some great suggestions from this forum I have some good techniques to work on....

:D

[WreckitWhippet]

Mike, arm yourself with a pocket full of food, all day every day and whenever you walk into the back yard or she's hanging around you inside, you can practice those exercises off leash. Do it a couple of times, maybe a one sit in there, tell her she's a good dog and walk off.

You'll find that you'll get a very positive response from her and that she will want to be with you. The food is a great motivator in the beginning but give her a couple of months and she'll be hanging around like a bad smell.

You can also teach her to recall. Wait for an opportunity when she's looking at you, say her name and as she starts heading towards you "come". Make it a happy voice and praise her/treat her when she gets to you. From there you can move on to gaining her attention, then calling her in. Start with small distances and opportunities when you know she will come.

Make the most of the madness, the crazy one's learn very quickly and they love to please you. I've seen so many people become frustrated with the excited/overtop Stafford but with some consistent work, they are the most rewarding ones.