National German Shepherd Show/trial 2010

[SpikesPuppy]

It may be one show a year but think about the all breed club that is missing out on the entries?? 10 dogs could garner more than $100 in entry fees, plus catalogues etc.

I am another who thinks the nationals should be within state boundaries- not a specific distance.

My breed doesn't even have a national so I'm not likely to be faced with this problem any time soon, although I did travel to Sydney with mum and her collie last year for their national (actually regretting not having entered my own dogs in the all breed show at the same venue that weekend as we had to bring them All with us).

I don't see bans on cc's having any effect on entry numbers at a natinal show- ppl wanting to go will go, others should be allowed to support their local club for eg. If someone feels the need to avoid other dogs to gain points, who else does that effect???

The real losers I see here are the all breed clubs who are losing money, not the national shows!!

Another eg: say I lived in Mildura, my breed specialty is on at KCC park the same day as my local Kennel Clubs annual show. I have been under the specialty Judge before, and they did not appreciate the style of dog I have, why would I waste half a day in travel, petrol money, loss of income due to travel time, boarding fees for my other dogs etc to make the trek down??? On the other hand, why would I enter my local show knowing I was not going to be eligible for any major awards??

I do really think the no cc rules for both state and national specialties are ridiculous.

[Kadbury]

It is no different to entering an Open show.

[SpikesPuppy]

It is. At an open show you are still eligible for BIG, RUBIG, BIS & RUBIS.

Also you enter an Open show knowing that you will not be bringing any points home.

[Kadbury]

It is. At an open show you are still eligible for BIG, RUBIG, BIS & RUBIS.

Also you enter an Open show knowing that you will not be bringing any points home.

If i was showing, and knew there was a breed National on, i would assume that i would not be eligible for points at an All breeds show.

Since i dont show maybe i am looking at it from a different point of view

[Rebanne]

The real losers I see here are the all breed clubs who are losing money, not the national shows!!

Another eg: say I lived in Mildura, my breed specialty is on at KCC park the same day as my local Kennel Clubs annual show. I have been under the specialty Judge before, and they did not appreciate the style of dog I have, why would I waste half a day in travel, petrol money, loss of income due to travel time, boarding fees for my other dogs etc to make the trek down??? On the other hand, why would I enter my local show knowing I was not going to be eligible for any major awards??

Oh I can think of a few reasons, a donation to the local club, a nice day out with friends and like minded people, valuable experience for yourself and your dog (if needed).

[piper]

Trvell9ing with dogs on planes out of Tassie is almost prohibitive such are the rules of airlines these days

I understand the ferry cost making things more difficult and essentially removing driving as an option for some people. But I am still struggling to understand comments like the 1 above in regards to flying - the airline restrictions on things like size, type of crate, breed of dog, number of dogs per flight etc are the same nationwide. So people who are considering flying from any state have the same concerns and issues.

An earlier comment regarding Jetstar not taking dogs is no different to anywhere else either. As far as I am aware we are all restricted to QANTAS or Virgin if we want to fly with our dogs.

Someone said that there were only 2 flights out - 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening. Well 2 weeks ago I picked up a Tasmanian from the airport who had flown out, with her dog from Hobart at 1 or 2pm and was flying back into Hobart at a similar time.

Here in SA we only have 1 airoprt with interstate flights so driving a coupe of hours to get to the airport is also an issue. As I said though I will agree that it is easier/cheaper for us to drive to Melbourne than people from Tasmania, but in regards to Nationals I also feel that there should be no challenge certificates available anywhere in the country whilst a national is on.

[ellz]

Trvell9ing with dogs on planes out of Tassie is almost prohibitive such are the rules of airlines these days

the airline restrictions on things like size, type of crate, breed of dog, number of dogs per flight etc are the same nationwide. So people who are considering flying from any state have the same concerns and issues.

Incorrect.

The airlines use the larger planes routinely on most mainland air routes. They tend to use the smaller ones to come into Tasmania. These planes do not carry livestock, or only carry dogs up to a certain size and only if they are not carrying consumables on the same flights.

We also have limited "Qantas" flights in Tasmania. Many of them are actually Jetstar who don't take animals at all.

[piper]

Incorrect.

The airlines use the larger planes routinely on most mainland air routes. They tend to use the smaller ones to come into Tasmania. These planes do not carry livestock, or only carry dogs up to a certain size and only if they are not carrying consumables on the same flights.

We also have limited "Qantas" flights in Tasmania. Many of them are actually Jetstar who don't take animals at all.

Well we must have been lucky with the person I picked up the other week - no hassle what so ever booking her dog onto flights in and out of Hobart at the times of day needed. I actually expected more issues with it than we had.

[ellz]

Incorrect.

The airlines use the larger planes routinely on most mainland air routes. They tend to use the smaller ones to come into Tasmania. These planes do not carry livestock, or only carry dogs up to a certain size and only if they are not carrying consumables on the same flights.

We also have limited "Qantas" flights in Tasmania. Many of them are actually Jetstar who don't take animals at all.

Well we must have been lucky with the person I picked up the other week - no hassle what so ever booking her dog onto flights in and out of Hobart at the times of day needed. I actually expected more issues with it than we had.

You can be lucky. But a lot will also depend upon the time of the year and whether or not it is considered to be a peak season in Tasmania. The airlines tend to put on larger planes when they think they'll get more bums on seats.

BUT having said that, as I've previously said in this thread, I had a dog only recently booked onto Virgin for a Friday flight and she was bumped with very little notice and had to fly out on the Saturday instead. She had already been collected by the animal transport company for her Friday flight so it cost more to have them keep her unexpectedly to put her on the flight on the Saturday as it was not possible for me to collect her or for them to bring her home again and pick her up the next day. And due to her breed, she could not be flown by AAE.

I've been exhibiting dogs for 24 years now. From 1986 until 1991 when I moved to NSW I was a regular traveller between Hobart and the mainland for Specialty Shows, Royals and major Victorian shows like ADI and Cranbourne. In those days travel was DEAD EASY. You'd just ring the day before and book your dog on. Rock up to the airport, put the dog through baggage for $10 per dog no matter what size and then go and check your luggage in at the terminal. Any flight, any time of the day or night, any day of the week, any airline.

I lived in Sydney between 1991 and 1995 and was a regular exhibitor at Victorian, Canberran and NSW shows and we travelled a LOT. All by road. So much simpler and a lot less stressful. And yes, if you decided to go, you filled the car with petrol and drove. If you decided not to go, or couldn't go for some reason, all you blew were your entries.

Those were definitely the days!!!

[Kettshep]

Hi Eric

I am quiet astounded at your comments regarding the GSD National. Like most people on the Friday I was well rugged up against the cold. I did not see any sane person of either sex wearing a bikini, to do so would have been notice due to the EXTREME cold. I would recommend that you check that your friend was at our National as I have spoken to numerous people who were at the show today with regards to your comments they to do not recall seeing anyone in a "bikini". Please if you wish to write this sort of comment check your sources and in future possibly use a more reliable resource.

Secondly, I know that you have read on another forum how I did the costings and visability of getting approximately 350 GSD's from mainland Australia to either Tasmaina or to Perth to hold a National event, it was not just the cost of getting the dogs to and from the event but also the fact that it could take a MINIMUM of 8 days to get that many GSD's into either of those states and another 8+ days to get them out again. Thus to hold a show in either WA or Tasmainia is not possible, the WA people were able to understand and accept that particularly as the GSD National does rotate each year that until such time as there were more flights available to put dogs on they woud not request a Natioanl in their state, even though they are disappointed.

Considering Nationals are held annually, I know that some people plan to attend the National and maybe one in another state in between times, I realise that this requires planning and budgeting but we have a number of members who appear to be able to do this whilst on an aged pension, possibly you might like to try this.

With regards to your "friend's" comments to our dog, please note that she was looking at the young classes where puppies like children grow at different rates and that different parts of the anitomy grow at different rates and if your "friend" has been out of GSD's for a long time she might have forgotten how young puppies grow.

In closing I would like to say that when making negative comments with regards to any breed or show it is far better to make them from first hand knowledge and by attending an event, than by listening to second hand gossip, critisim and disparagement.

I didn't see anywhere in "Eric's" comments that there were bikinis, me thinks yer got the wrong guy

Re the style of showing I much prefer the GSD specialist manner of showing as it gets more people involved and it can be so much more fun, however that depends on the people involved, some are so intent on winning tat the fun factor simply disappears and after all enjoying our dogs, win or lose, is what it's supposed to be all about.

As to comments re dress, some people do get "involved" but that's their choice.

The same person who made the bikini comment also commented upon the type of dog, roach backs east west [toes pointing out] or French Front and other comments and whilst I'd like to disagree from experience I've seen dogs put up as State Seigers that no breeder would even contemplate using and I can only suppose "politics" comes into it somewhere.

For me a GSD is a working dog! A working dog must be able to move first and foremost. No freedom of movement but looks good in stance, then useless! Working dogs must have energy and movement and some of the dogs we see in the ring look good but that's it, useless in the fields.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Kettshep

[Kettshep]

Trvell9ing with dogs on planes out of Tassie is almost prohibitive such are the rules of airlines these days

I understand the ferry cost making things more difficult and essentially removing driving as an option for some people. But I am still struggling to understand comments like the 1 above in regards to flying - the airline restrictions on things like size, type of crate, breed of dog, number of dogs per flight etc are the same nationwide. So people who are considering flying from any state have the same concerns and issues.

An earlier comment regarding Jetstar not taking dogs is no different to anywhere else either. As far as I am aware we are all restricted to QANTAS or Virgin if we want to fly with our dogs.

Someone said that there were only 2 flights out - 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening. Well 2 weeks ago I picked up a Tasmanian from the airport who had flown out, with her dog from Hobart at 1 or 2pm and was flying back into Hobart at a similar time.

Here in SA we only have 1 airoprt with interstate flights so driving a coupe of hours to get to the airport is also an issue. As I said though I will agree that it is easier/cheaper for us to drive to Melbourne than people from Tasmania, but in regards to Nationals I also feel that there should be no challenge certificates available anywhere in the country whilst a national is on.

Obviously you don't live in Tasmania

The boat is the best option for getting dogs across the the mainland because of the restrictions placed on flying dogs. Yes it can be done but when it suits the airline, [Jetstar no go!] so our only real option is to drive via the ferries.

[Kettshep]

Trvell9ing with dogs on planes out of Tassie is almost prohibitive such are the rules of airlines these days

the airline restrictions on things like size, type of crate, breed of dog, number of dogs per flight etc are the same nationwide. So people who are considering flying from any state have the same concerns and issues.

Incorrect.

The airlines use the larger planes routinely on most mainland air routes. They tend to use the smaller ones to come into Tasmania. These planes do not carry livestock, or only carry dogs up to a certain size and only if they are not carrying consumables on the same flights.

We also have limited "Qantas" flights in Tasmania. Many of them are actually Jetstar who don't take animals at all.

In Tasmania we're rather unique in that both our "major" airports have single runways and are restricted to the smaller type jets and any freight going on them preference is given to perishables and other essential.

Yes you can get dogs in and out but the hassle and timetabling makes it an onerous affair so many choose to forgo! Such is the penalty we have for living on an island

I've brought dogs into the state but there has been no show timetable to keep so it wasn't a problem

[Kettshep]

Trvell9ing with dogs on planes out of Tassie is almost prohibitive such are the rules of airlines these days

I understand the ferry cost making things more difficult and essentially removing driving as an option for some people. But I am still struggling to understand comments like the 1 above in regards to flying - the airline restrictions on things like size, type of crate, breed of dog, number of dogs per flight etc are the same nationwide. So people who are considering flying from any state have the same concerns and issues.

An earlier comment regarding Jetstar not taking dogs is no different to anywhere else either. As far as I am aware we are all restricted to QANTAS or Virgin if we want to fly with our dogs.

Someone said that there were only 2 flights out - 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening. Well 2 weeks ago I picked up a Tasmanian from the airport who had flown out, with her dog from Hobart at 1 or 2pm and was flying back into Hobart at a similar time.

Here in SA we only have 1 airoprt with interstate flights so driving a coupe of hours to get to the airport is also an issue. As I said though I will agree that it is easier/cheaper for us to drive to Melbourne than people from Tasmania, but in regards to Nationals I also feel that there should be no challenge certificates available anywhere in the country whilst a national is on.

Without even looking at your place of abode I know that you don't live in Tasmania

[Kettshep]

It seems that there are so called "arguments" for and against the 1000Klm "ban" however the bottom line is that it all comes down to a freedom of choice. I could, for example, choose to support my local dog clubs who have through the years put on shows within the state where I can catch up with friends, some of whom do not show GSD's but other breeds, and by attending I'm showing support for local clubs, or I could choose to go to the National. What I'd like to be able to do is choose what show I attend and to get the full rewards for attending tat show. Now if the National want me to attend like any business dealing they should make it worthwhile my attending via some incentive to go to the National over attending my local club's function. The ANKC and breed clubs have however come up with a distinctly no incentive scheme that rankles many and appeases many.

The bottom line is there should be no prevention of the appropriate awards in points etc. it's simply about the freedom of choice in which show you attend, National or local. If the Nationals are as some indicate so important go to the National, if like me you don't care to go then please allow us to go to shows and compete on an equal footing with all the other breeds and competitors.

Also National means just that National, encompassing the whole Nation, yet the GSDCA DO NOT Encompass the Nation, SA, Vic, NSW, QLD, No WA no Tasmania or NT

This is an antiquated rule and so typical of the dog world's draconian and out of touch Governance and it should be recinded.

Free choice and free trade. And it most likely wouldn't affect attendance at the Nationals anyway.

[Kettshep]

Gee it is only one weekend out of the year that you cannot get challenge points. Big Deal. I agree with the rules. It all comes down to choice, if you do not like it, do something about it, if you cannot or cannot be bothered to change it, suck it up and grin and bear it. JMO.

And here is a typical reply, I'm alright Jack so bugger you...! So typical in the dog world. We're not into cats you know!

I thought that being into dogs and having like interests people would be more forgiving and more interested in helping others with like interest but over the years it seems that friendship/mateship has been tossed as we all seek to be top of the pile. But I wonder just what pile are we seeking to be top thereof?

Not good enough and I'm ashamed that you're obviously a GSD owner breeder

[Staffordz]

As someone who does continuously travel from Tasmania for breed shows, it does cost alot of money to get away. Just to get to even footing with our mainland counterparts without then the drive to wherever the show is after that. It isnt just a matter of hopping in the car its a ferry or a plane trip - I really dont think the 1000klm rule has this in mind. I understand what the rule is trying to achieve - to stop the easy CC National weekend....but Tasmanian exhibitors are really hamstrung by this rule as the 1000klm trip is not the same for us as for other states.

As I mentioned we travel regularly to the mainland and will continue to - we save to do at least 2 trips a year and I have no doubt that we would show at a National if there was one for our breed....BUT I still feel the rule being applied to Tasmania is not the same comparison as for a normal neighbouring state.

JMO

[Kettshep]

As someone who does continuously travel from Tasmania for breed shows, it does cost alot of money to get away. Just to get to even footing with our mainland counterparts without then the drive to wherever the show is after that. It isnt just a matter of hopping in the car its a ferry or a plane trip - I really dont think the 1000klm rule has this in mind. I understand what the rule is trying to achieve - to stop the easy CC National weekend....but Tasmanian exhibitors are really hamstrung by this rule as the 1000klm trip is not the same for us as for other states.

As I mentioned we travel regularly to the mainland and will continue to - we save to do at least 2 trips a year and I have no doubt that we would show at a National if there was one for our breed....BUT I still feel the rule being applied to Tasmania is not the same comparison as for a normal neighbouring state.

JMO

A sensible reply indeed.

For all of us it is a choice, your choice is to go and I commend you for that but as you say it's not just a matter of hopping on a plane or boat and you are right the rule does not allow for that

If I was given the choice to vote on such a rule I'd certainly vote against it

Thank you for a most sensible reply too.

[Eric]

Here Here Totally agree it is by choice [Or should be] but to a large majority for different circumstances that choice isn't a viable outcome. entry for these Shows close like most about 4 - 5 weeks before the actual Show in some cases even a lot longer than that. When planning for a great show and trip entering, booking and I presume deposit or more for Ferry or plane, accomodation etc. etc. then as the time draws near something UNPLANED FOR like Accident, Serious Health issues, of yourself, family member or your beloved dog or dogs, how many Airlines, Ferry Services, Accomodation places etc. etc. will refund either fully or partial. Entry fees like all Shows arn't and that is ok, it goes as donation for the Club Clubs running the event, which these days they need all the assistance they can rally up. Therefore the rule should not come into it as those of us who are unsure can still enter our dogs in both the National and Local and then decide sooner to the time as to our capibility of going to which ever one we can go to at that time. Then the National does not miss out on entry fees and we are still supporting our Local Clubs who also need lots of support.

Eric.

[Pockets]

I really think this is a bit over the top, if you don't want to go to a National that's fair enough, missing an all breeds show or challenge points for one weekend a year isn't a big deal, maybe an opportunity to do something different

[Kettshep]

I really think this is a bit over the top, if you don't want to go to a National that's fair enough, missing an all breeds show or challenge points for one weekend a year isn't a big deal, maybe an opportunity to do something different

Over the top...? Having principals? Not at all it's simply about freedom of choice and not being disadvantaged by that choice and not having needless rules, there are far too many as it is, not just in the dog world either

It's rules like this that will discourage the newer show going people who aren't up with all the rules and regulations