Elbie, Hoover, Dodge & Friends!

[koalathebear]

What tricks is everyone currently teaching/have taught? James and I plateaued some time ago, in terms of new tricks, and I'm looking for something to catch my eye so we can work on new things.

We were working with Elbie on the foot tap - stick out right foot he taps it with his corresponding foot, stick out left foot and he taps it with his corresponding foot. I also hold up right hand and he taps it and then left hand - like those clapping games in school

Also putting things in a box.

Peekaboo? That's always very cute.

Drop/sit in the middle of a recall or on his way to his food?

I'd love to be able to cue a head tilt - Hoover does the most incredibly adorable head tilt EVER - but I can't cue get him to do it on command yet

[koalathebear]

Oh, do you have number charts too?

That would be Wrong.

[Max#1]

What tricks is everyone currently teaching/have taught? James and I plateaued some time ago, in terms of new tricks, and I'm looking for something to catch my eye so we can work on new things.

We were working with Elbie on the foot tap - stick out right foot he taps it with his corresponding foot, stick out left foot and he taps it with his corresponding foot. I also hold up right hand and he taps it and then left hand - like those clapping games in school

Also putting things in a box.

Peekaboo? That's always very cute.

Drop/sit in the middle of a recall or on his way to his food?

I'd love to be able to cue a head tilt - Hoover does the most incredibly adorable head tilt EVER - but I can't cue get him to do it on command yet

My 'command' for the head tilt is 'Do you wanna....'. Cause that can end in 'go for a walk/ride in the car/play ball/have some chicken', he usually pays attention and will tilt away!

[lilli_star]

What tricks is everyone currently teaching/have taught? James and I plateaued some time ago, in terms of new tricks, and I'm looking for something to catch my eye so we can work on new things.

We were working with Elbie on the foot tap - stick out right foot he taps it with his corresponding foot, stick out left foot and he taps it with his corresponding foot. I also hold up right hand and he taps it and then left hand - like those clapping games in school

Also putting things in a box.

Peekaboo? That's always very cute.

Drop/sit in the middle of a recall or on his way to his food?

I'd love to be able to cue a head tilt - Hoover does the most incredibly adorable head tilt EVER - but I can't cue get him to do it on command yet

That's it. I'm sending Ruby to you to be schooled. Do prepaid postpacks come in 30kg sizes?

[koalathebear]

Interestingly, Elbie does not do head tilt. Only Hoover!

[Niques]

James will head tilt for "Dinner". And I exploit it a huge amount each evening until he starts to think I'm lying and there really is no dinner

KTB, what Peekaboo entail?

Paw tapping sounds fun. I can imagine your two ending up like Clever Hans - they're such observant learners.

[koalathebear]

James will head tilt for "Dinner". And I exploit it a huge amount each evening until he starts to think I'm lying and there really is no dinner

KTB, what Peekaboo entail?

Paw tapping sounds fun. I can imagine your two ending up like Clever Hans - they're such observant learners.

Peekaboo video is

. First you just lure doggy through legs from behind. But then he learns to come and do peekaboo from wherever he is in the room. It's very simple but always gets an amused reaction from spectators when dog pops through and peeks up cutely.

I should teach my two more tricks - they seem to enjoy them a lot but lately we've been working on boring snoring stuff like heeling, loose leash walking, focus

ETA: I'd also teach James are you shy. It's a trick that can take ages to teach but he would look very cute doing it!

lilli_star: Ha, happy to teach tricks to Roo - when you visit us in Canberra

Edited April 27, 2011 by koalathebear

[lilli_star]

Roo can do Peekaboo. I'm just organising that 30kg prepaid postpack so Koala can teach her everything else

[Genabee]

Hi People and Doglets!!!

I hope you aren't all too full from chocolate! We had a lovely family weekend. We took Genevieve down to Ocean Grove Beach and she got to hoon around like a maniac. I have been having pre-labour contractions so the walk was great for me too, as the drive down was horrendous!. Poor Hubby was so tired because Genevieve and I were like energiser bunnies, I could have kept walking all day!! We just kept going! That night though, Genevieve was sooooo exhausticated (so was I!)!

On the good side though, yet again she was an awesome beach dog! We have found her to be extremely well behaved off lead at the beach. I think because they are generally more contained and we are more relaxed about it... She doesn't like the water so never goes near it. She just runs the length of the beach (sand). If we get too far ahead or behind her, she heads back to us as for some reason (one I am not knocking) she has to have us in her sights. She has been good at the park also, but I still don't feel brave enough to take her off lead by myself (pregnant lady running after excited mini dog is not a good look). If there are other dogs and their people around, she usually hangs around close (until the dogs give her the shits and she goes and finds a quiet spot to rest in!). She LOVES kids though, so always makes a bee line for them - way more exciting than other dogs. I worry that not every one is a dog person and to a little kid, she could be scary. I don't want to get a bad rep as the waddler with the naughty pup!!! So all in all, we are pretty happy with her off lead behaviour.

Happy Birthday Max!

Loving the photos of Echo Kylie Girl. I'll add my two cents worth (if it helps!). Like Betsy, I went through a stage of sheer frustration with Genevieve where she wouldn't do a whole lot, other than sit, high five and drop (or down as we call it in our house). And she would do that for everything, no matter what you asked her to do (I think she thought she was covering all her bases!!!!). Anyway, I backed right off for a while. A few weeks later when I had built my patience back up and G had a bit of a growth spurt, she was more responsive again. I use treats for training and I would wean her one trick at a time. She would only ever get a treat for the new trick she was learning, not the ones she already had under her belt. Took her a few goes, but eventually it clicked in her head. Now I can get her to sit, high five, drop, roll over, stay, stand, kiss and touch on command without a treat and in any order of succession. She does get them from time to time for things, just to keep her on her toes... By nature she just wants to please though, so occasionally she just randomly does a bunch of things out of nowhere!! I mainly use treats now to bribe her to do things... I just have to say 'Do you want a treat!?' and she cocks her head and comes running!!! Oh, and stand took some time. As others have suggested, I taught it from the 'sit' position and lured her forward with a treat - which she didn't get until she held the position. I started off making her just get up and treating and progressed to staying in the position. Has been a saviour for bathing her!!! She does get lots of treats when she is being bathed/dried.

Genevieve hasn't learnt a whole bunch new of late. We have been working on her off lead recall and 'bring it back' - retrieving the ball/toy/object. Let's just say they don't call cavs retrievers for a very good reason!!! She LOVES to chase the ball if you throw it, but has no intention in bringing it back!!! It is pretty funny to watch! She always runs straight past it and then does this big circle around it and comes back to you - then sits so politely right in front of your feet!!!!! As if to say 'Do I get a treat now!?'. Prompting her to 'Well get your ball!' and she runs back to it and finally brings it back!!!! Silly doglet!

[Niques]

Peekaboo is very cute! Definitely goes on the list.

ETA: I'd also teach James are you shy. It's a trick that can take ages to teach but he would look very cute doing it!

I would, but I'm scared of going back to the hell of a stickytape coated dog Last time I tried he ended up with bits of fallen tape stuck all over his body and it turned into general chaos. I keep meaning to go back to it...but then I remember the great effort and persistence needed and stop thinking about it

[koalathebear]

Niques,

is the early training for the paw trick. Lazy Hooman can teach the trick just sitting in the chair and sticking out her feet, making poor dog do all the work

[Niques]

Niques,

is the early training for the paw trick. Lazy Hooman can teach the trick just sitting in the chair and sticking out her feet, making poor dog do all the work

Elbie looks like he's glaring at you towards the end. "Again? Really?"

Tricks for Lazy Hoomans are the best kind I do something like that with James already. Except he very rarely uses his left paw - I stubbornly refused to teach him to shake on the left and now he won't use it for "Paw" either. Really need to work on that more.

[KumaAkita]

Well Max's birthday today and time for some photos!

Happy Birthday to Max!

She is sulking today because she only got 3 walks. She loves the cold, rainy weather but I can't say i enjoy it a lot, so instead of taking her for her 4th walk I was in bed snuggled with a hot chocolate and book! She liked the hot chocolate part though and consented to snuggle on the bed with me.

4 Walks A Day!!?? ;) Kuma gets 30 minutes every weekday morning, weekends he'll get one walk if he's lucky! He's a lazy bugger who is back asleep by the time I leave for work every morning... He'd die if we did 4 walks a day.

KylieGirl - I have a lump of a dog who didn't really "get" training until about 2-3 months ago. As a youngster, he'd learn a few things, but then give me the doggy equivalent of flippin' the bird and walk away. There was a period from about 6-12 months where we would have gladly given him to someone else (well, not really, but you know what I mean... ) He didn't listen, he wouldn't work at obedience, he wouldn't work at home, he'd push every boundary he could. He's now matured a little, and is starting to listen and has relaxed a lot, meaning we can start focussing on more training. Echo is obviously a really smart boy, and has worked out what will get him a reward. I have a feeling that Echo is like Kuma in many respects - aloof, independant and stubborn. It will take patience from you, but you just need to wait him out.

Have a look at a training in drive program, that might give you some pointers on how to harness his love of toys into giving you the responses you're after. It's something that's on my list of things to do with Kuma, but haven't yet gotten to! KTB has given you a few good pointers! Heck, I can't even get Kuma to sit/stay or down/stay! But his stand is great The other thing you could do is gave a look at The Evil Beagle on youtube - that's Huski on DOL. From what I understand her little beagle was much like Echo when she came home, and they are now hugely successful at ob trials, and generally have a much better relationship. Good luck!

oh, and he's looking just beautiful! sooo shiny.

Now... for a photo (this is a photo thread afterall!) This is Kuma on the way home from tamworth the other day. It's an 8 hour drive, he slept most of the way but would occasionally stick his head up for a squizz out the window. Musta scared the bejeebus out of any following cars!

Are we there yet? by shibburd, on Flickr

[kyliegirl]

thanks everyone for the help, to answer some things about echos training

betsy- he might be hitting adolescence, he is beginning to react to dogs barking aggressively through fences (I thought i had conditioned him via clicker training to ignore fence barkers but this appears to have regressed suddenly) he raised his hackles and now huffs and puffs, all i do is stay silent and pull him along and try to get his attention on me. I made a thread a while ago and everyone seemed to be telling me to do more with echo, and now i am being told to do less. I just cannot seem to make sense of it all? He currently is learning bow, spin, place and up plus touch since today. I train these seperately and a training session of 5 mins will usually only target two tricks at a time. I thought this wasnt too much?

As for the NILIF program, admittedly i have not been consistent with this. I also did a test this morning on echo to see what he did when i held treats in my head where he could reach, from the tests i did I have gathered that we haven't been strict enough of this and he assumes that he should have the food in my hand without any consent (I was doing the see but don't touch closed fist and boy he was adamant on trying to get the food without any permission.. will need to work on this and leave it) I gradually had some progress on this after 10 mins where he started to look at my hand and then to me for permission, but would regress frequently so i will lower the difficulty to help him get it and win.

KTB- I tried that with echo today, from what i can tell on his body language he isnt quite getting it.. at one point he did kindof get it, but he seemed half hearted about it. if that makes any sense? It was like he went "oh yeah, i get it, i jump up here i get food.. ok.. uh.. cool?" and then went off to observe something else before offering again..

niques- I have, but atm i have to be quick, I am worried that constantly click treating as he stands he will not get it either. He is still a very very slow learner and while some things he gets instantly, he has extreme trouble learning others even when i lure him. Echo definitely has a free command which we use for releasing him from sit/drop and is also used for playing tug when we tell him to release.

wizzle- thanks for the info, I think we are living your life lol! I think the mistake i am having is i am still rewarding with food here and there for sit and drop during training, i will stop this and see if it helps him get the idea we aren't learning those anymore and to focus on the other things. good tip thanks!

kuma- i think echo is just that lol, its hard not to tell him he is a brainless lump of dog sometimes lol, he just doesnt seem to get it alot of the time. I do give him leniance on this as I understand dobes (especially males) are quite slow as puppies lol. We do currently train in drive, this is where my problem is lol, he is so driven by toys that he will ignore the clicker and me as all he cares about is the toy, which if we are too close trying to teach him something new and the toy is in reach, he WILL try to grab the toy.. He LOVES tug and he LOVES fetch and LOVES sqeaking toys.

btw love the photo of kuma So cute!!

Edited April 28, 2011 by kyliegirl

[dandybrush]

im baaaaaack, hope everyone had a great easter i sure did now I'm home, willows home and i go bak to work next week ;) time sure does go fast

[wuffles]

kyliegirl, my Satchmo is a very slow learner as well One thing about him though, and from your description it sounds like Echo is the same, is that he is NOT dumb... he is far from it... he just learns in a different way than we may be used to.

We call Ava our Aussie "dog smart" because she is the typical working breed, eager to train, learns things quickly. But we call Satch "dog smart". He is all "dog" - he uses his instincts and does exactly what works for him. I have no doubt that if our two dogs were let loose in the wild, Ava would last maybe a day (oh hello big scary man with gun, play with me?) whereas Satch would revel in it!

I find it difficult to teach Satch new things, but he has me wrapped around his paw... so if he butts in while I'm training Ava, he often gets treats for doing nothing or simply sitting, whereas Ava has to do tricks, precision heeling, etc It obviously works for him.

At the dog park, he goes and does his own thing then wanders among the gathering humans, standing strategically next to their legs and shoving his head under their hand... he usually gets lengthy pats this way. Ava will run up to humans wriggling and wagging so she gets a lot of "awww, how cute" attention, but Satch is the master and gets prolonged, absent patting ;)

Sorry, I know this post doesn't contain any advice as such, but hopefully you and Echo will find a happy medium where you enjoy the time you have together without too many expectations. I spend a lot more time with Ava as she is more my type of dog, whereas my OH loves his Satchy more than anything.

[Genabee]

I made a thread a while ago and everyone seemed to be telling me to do more with echo, and now i am being told to do less. I just cannot seem to make sense of it all? He currently is learning bow, spin, place and up plus touch since today. I train these seperately and a training session of 5 mins will usually only target two tricks at a time. I thought this wasnt too much?

Kylie Girl, just thought I would respond to this... One thing I have learned form DOL... Everyone has a different approach to getting results from their dogs. Unless you are belting the crap out of your dog, I don't think any one approach is wrong. What might be too much for one dog, is not enough for another. I remember reading about Elbie as a puppy and KTB would spend HOURS training him - I couldn't compete!!!! (I am pretty sure that woman has 48 hours in her day!!! ). But I also knew that Genevieve didn't need that much stimulation either. Each dog is different. (BTW, I use Elbie as my comparison as he and Genevieve are about the same age and they were achieving similar things at the same time. KTB kept me sane in the early days because I knew she was sharing similar frustrations).

It pays to stand back for a moment and assess ECHO for what ECHO needs. And he will mentally mature in spurts here and there, and slow down at other times, much like he will physically. The trick is to strike when you know his mind is being sponge like and soaking it up, but back off when you aren't getting anywhere. Backing off when you need to does not mean you are abandoning everything you have achieved thus far, it means you are giving him time to process it all. Like kids, doglets need down time too. In teaching them things, you need to be able to read into their behaviour. They are behaving a certain way at a certain time because they are trying to tell us something. It is up to us to interpret what that is.

I think I may have said ages before, but if the clicker isn't working, try something else. You can always come back to the clicker later... I know you have invested a lot of time and patience (probably money too) into it, but if it isn't working... Find what his currency is. If it is treats/toys/praise etc. Use it to your advantage. A dog behaviouralist told me that when rewarding our dogs, we should only be using ONE form of praise at a time. Either a treat, praise, pat or toy. The only exception to this was for toilet training - when I had permission to use all of them!! The theory behind this, was that they didn't become too accustomed to one kind of reward over another... I can't say I have subscribed to that theory ALL the time, but certainly when she starts acting up, I go back to basics. She soon works out what I want from her. Yes, it took A LOT of time and patience on my part in the early days, but now... she's alright. Nothing special, no circus performer, but she does the basic things I need her to do. Manners.

I don't profess to have the world's best behaved dog - and the others in here will remember how I struggled with Genevieve when she was about Echo's age (seriously, I was tearing my hair out and ready to give her away. I would be sitting on the floor in tears some evenings)... But sometimes you just have to go with the flow. Elbie for example has always been thirsty to learn more tricks and will do ANYTHING for food. Genevieve on the other hand, jsut wants to play and snuggle (often when I don't want to or have time to, which is when she becomes naughty. Now that I have worked this out, I can deal with it a lot more effectively and it is less of a problem for me). It is not worth stressing yourself out over and certainly isn't worth getting yourself into such a state that you aren't enjoying your dog. I have to remind myself every now and then why I wanted Genevieve in the first place and what behaviours are and are not acceptable in my house. When I scale it all back and remember those few basic things, I can let the other things go. By all accounts Echo isn't a naughty, evil, nasty dog... He is just a teenager!!!

Anyway, I hope I make sense and didn't offend. Certainly not my intention. If anything, I can understand your frustrations as when I first got G, I had all sorts of ideas about how she would be and behave etc... But it just didn't turn out like that. Since I have re-adjusted my expectations, I enjoy my dog so much more. Now that I have that with her, I wouldn't change it for the world.

[KumaAkita]

KylieGirl - I agree with Wuffles... Echo isn't Dumb, he's smart as a whip! Kuma's the same, and having met Satch I can say he's the same too. Kuma does not do repetitions. Not for love nor money. Ever. Our first beginners class at BDOC our trainer said "Let's do puppy push ups 5 times". This meant Sit/Down/Sit/Stand 5 times. That's 20 commands! At 8 months old, Kuma couldn't string 4 commands together, much less 20 commands! He could work out that if he picked up his toy and put it in our laps we'd throw it... he just did the things that he wanted to do. He also knows that he doesn't have to jump into the back of the car - all he does is put his front paws up and look all pathetic so we lift him in... why jump when my humans lift me? See... he trained us.

When it came to his official training, my real lightbulb moment came when I realised that it isn't Kuma who's preventing him learning, it's the trainer (i.e. Me!). I kept seeing Ava at training knowing she's the same age as Kuma and is so much further ahead than he is! Oh... her heeling was to die for! Kuma spent more time sniffing blades of grass than learning to heel. I also saw a lot of Elbie (and then later Hoover) and all the wonderful tricks he could do! Oh... "bang! You're Dead!" "Shy!" and all Kuma could do was roll over onto his side *sigh*. I took a step back and thought about what would make me happy and what would make Kuma happy. I realised that we needed to be stronger with our NILIF practices, I had to let got of the ideal that Kuma would be an Ob Champ and do the perfect heel, or be the Trick Champion and play dead at the point of finger guns. Most of all, I stopped overthinking everything and enjoyed him for the pup that he was and envisaged the adult dog I wanted him to be and worked towards that. In the end, we just wanted a well behaved dog and he's now maturing into a really gentle, lovely boy. It's easy to get caught up in the DOL-iverse and by reading some of these threads think that you're doing the wrong thing. I strongly believe that you need to think about what kind of dog you want Echo to be, and enjoy his puppyhood as much as you can.

I remember your thread about Echo and his exercise... I think that you're on the right path with the trick training and mental stimulation as opposed to physical activity. As I said before, you need to gather all your perserverance and try and out-wit him.

If you get a chance, read up on an Akita! I think you'll find that they have much the same temperament as Dobes... So we have the same challenges. I can tell you from experience - there is light at the end of the tunnel!

[kyliegirl]

i never said he was dumb, i just joke about it

[KumaAkita]

i never said he was dumb, i just joke about it

:D