Elbie, Hoover, Dodge & Friends!

[TheFenstar]

KTB - You should create a facebook group!!!!!!

ooh yes, that's a great idea. I don't know any of you on FB, so I could join in a bit more

I use twitter too, I like over sharing

[koalathebear]

That last episode was very interesting, I was very suprised about their cross breed choice. Guide Dogs cross Labs with Golden Retrievers, must be a service dog organisation thing? Crossing breeds for something more versatile to suit their needs? I dunno...

I was puzzled about that, too because Bernese Mountain Dogs aren't known for their health or longevity. I did find it interesting how dogs were able to 'reach' autistic children and cut through their aversion to touching/being touched and how dogs could calm them down when they were having a stress attack. For me the problem is that dogs have such short life spans - how will an autistic child react when his/her beloved dog dies?

I have a HEAP of "human" towels because years ago I seemed to be addicted to buying them and now I have way too many. So they will come in very handy once he arrives.

Ooh and thanks for the reminder about the Urine Off, I must put that on my 'To Do List'. I have to get some cheap lino for the puppy pen too, I have polished floor boards so I think cleaning lino will be a bit easier!

I am getting impatient now, but yes, also relishing my sleep ins. I was talking to the cat the other night (as you do) and I asked her if she was ready to share her Mummy! LOL.

Question - does the ticking alarm clock thing work for keeping puppies happy at night or is it one of those old wives tales?

We have gone through a LOT of towels with our two. One night when Elbie was very, very young he went through about four towels/blankets because he kept freaking out and doing panic poops ... Sigh I had a gift from my old secretary that was a knitted penguin cover for a hot water bottle. That got so covered in poop I threw it out because I couldn't bring myself to try to wash it.

We went through a lot of spraying and cleaning in our early puppy days - I was a lot more stressed when we had Elbie because we were renting at the time and confining him to the kitchen and yard and just conscious that it wasn't 'our' house. I was far more relaxed with Hoover because I had a better idea of what to do but also it was our house and the house had been purchased with dogs in mind i.e. no carpet ;)

One thing I can recommend is that for the dog bed cushions, put a garbage bag around the cushion before putting the cover over. That way if the dog soils the cover, you just have to wash the cover (which is easier to wash and dry) rather than the cushion which is much harder to wash and dry.

The ticking alarm did not work for Elbie but it did work for our old family dog Kitt.

Ah ha! I've got one tab with the thread in it and one with my reply - this should work a treat!

That's how I always reply! Sometimes I hit reply and then cut and paste the code over into my 'reply' tab to try not to miss anything.

Especially the 'can't reach him' bit - that really struck a chord. Just remember all the stuff that you and Mr KTB have taught him so far - and that you are human, he is dog. You will win! I'd be telling a big fat one if I said that there was nothing about Max that I would like some professional help with - just have to work on the OH....

Will PM you separately because I don't want to bore the thread but I am very proud of what we've achieved with Elbie. He was our first dog and definitely not an easy dog for novice dog owners. I used to wonder why everyone else seemed to have an easier time with their dogs. Then we got Hoover! If Hoover had been our first dog, things would have been very different but I actually think it's better for us that we got Elbie first - he has challenged us and kept us on our toes :D

It's way too long to put up here but I uploaded a file here which is extracts from my 'puppy diary' from the first few weeks we had Elbie. Oh man, I was sooooooo stressed. Reading back over it, I can't believe that we survived the first two weeks :D

The first was the night-time crying (described at that link). Overcome within the first week - although it seemed to last forever.

Then there was the jumping and biting, also overcome although some DOLers suggested seeing a behaviourist :p Definitely not necessary.

Then there was the dislike of being restrained (collar/harness). Also overcome, although again some DOLers suggested it was a Big Problem that needed professional assistance.

Then there was the leash attacking. Now resolved.

Then there was the barking and going nuts during car travel. Again, now resolved.

Yoicks, Elborino has kept us on our toes - no wonder OH looked at me like I was Completely Insane when I wanted a second dog. By the time Hoover came along - he seemed like an angel in comparison!!! Nonetheless, Elbie has such an amazing ability to learn - he loves to learn. He watches, he wants to please. You can see him trying and desperately overcoming his Issues. I can't believe how fast he learns things either - the tricks, generalising, anticipating. He is so smart - and so naughty! We have put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into him and I think it's been very rewarding, albeit exhausting When I look at the dog he is now, he has made so much progress and overcome so many hurdles, I'm very proud of him. I have to wonder though, when we overcome the frustrated prey drive/pulling on leash issue, I wonder what issue will await us

A confession. I've decided to give obedience a miss for now. Maybe my OH will talk me out of it this weekend (in which case HE can take the wriggly puppy!) - but I'm just a bit over it. Its just not hitting the right spot. So far we've hardly gone out to a park to practice (to play ball or socialise with other dogs, yes, to practice sitting and standing, no), and I guess without me making that effort there's not much point.

*sympathy* I know what you mean about the formal obedience thing. Sometimes I feel like a bit of a 'doesn't fit in' re the whole obedience thing. There are a couple of people in my current class that are extremely gung-ho with their larger than life arm gestures of 'come', emphatically bright cheerful marker words and earnestness - you can just tell that they're going to be Hard Core Obedience Triallers. I still remember standing around beginners and the assistant teacher reminded our teacher to teach us how to hold a leash formally. We were a most motley crew and the teacher said: "So this is the right way to hold the leash .. not that I expect any of you will ever be doing obedience trialling." So true and so prophetic ... Luckily for me, I learn a lot from the Serious Obedience People even though it's not something I am aspiring to. I also enjoy socialising with other dog people at the club - after all, CleoJ, wuffles, KumaAkita and Clastic are all there and they're all lovely. My dogs love playing with a lot of the dogs at the club and I really want them to be able to be calm and obedience in the face of distractions, so for me I really enjoy Dog School. OH and Elbie and Hoover and I also have great teachers which helps a lot. Also, even though this term (apart from clastic), I'm not that chummy with the other people in the class, we still get along great with some of the people from Elbie's beginners class.

I try to do obedience/tricks training with the dogs every day - mainly because they don't get a walk every day and I feel like they need to get some sort of stimulation Frequently I will teach them stuff that really has no purpose - it's just fun and engaging for them. They both love it and will trip over one another in their desperation to outperform the other. It's extremely cute. Sometimes we work with them together, sometimes OH takes one and I take the other. There are days when we are tired and the dogs just get tied up and given a lamb flap each with no training

betsy: I am impressed! We outsourced our painting to Con the Painter ... we are lazy slugs

ETA: Max#1 - I have found Max's new best friend here ;) So cute!!!! Gosh I hope the little fellow ends up with the right home. I think the working breeds are fine in the 'burbs but I just think that you have to spend more time with them. I find myself feeling anxious that some family is going to take this pup thinking he is so cute and not realising all the work that needs to go into him.

Edited March 7, 2011 by koalathebear

[minxy]

Sorry guys, I've just been reading lately and not posting, so I'm struggling to keep up with what's going on.

Just checking in to say hello to everyone in the safe corner.

We've had two weeks off training as our trainer has been in the hospital, so I've got my fingers crossed that training will resume tomorrow night.

Last night OH and I were in bed watching tv and we were talking about how good Kyojin cuddles were. So OH says okay, lets allow him to come up on the bed just for tonight since it's pretty rare that OH and I get time to just watch tv together. So Kyojin awkwardly climbs up since he really doesn't know why we want him on the bed, and he's a bit unsure as to why the ground is now soft and squishy. I'm lying there CRINGING waiting for him to walk all over me, which didn't end up being too bad until one leg decided to climb over my throat!! Silly oaf ;) Turns out you really can't fit two adults and nearly 40kg worth of Akita in a queen bed together and be comfortable. It was still kind of nice though since Kyojin really does give the best cuddles. I may be imagining it, but I'm pretty sure he had a big grin on his face

[Clastic]

Thanks for all the advice guys, keep it coming if you've got any more puppy suggestions. I'm adding stuff to my list to do over my next 2 days off.

I need to re pot some of my plants so tomorrow I'm going on a big drive out to a cheap pot place to pick up some big pots. Bunnings is so expensive for large pots.

Only advice I have re: plants - place them up high where the pup can't get to it. Pups seems to luuuuurve chewing and destroying plants, or Mars and Pepper did anyways. Mars pretty much killed every live plant my Mum had in her garden, it looked like a lawn mower had been over all the plants. Pepper thought the small hedge was a nice place to lie and swim around in, must have been comfy.

[wuffles]

Ava ate all the plants too, not that there were many to start with. She shredded a grassy shrub down to its stem (which has grown back in the past few months, YAY), stripped all the bark off one of our climbing plants, and dug in the garden beds and exposed all the plant roots. We didn't have any pot plants but I can tell you pretty easily what would have happened to them if we did

Edit: On another note, I sent in the entry form for our first obedience trials on 26 March ;) Eeek! We had a bit of an average training session last night but there were annoying little midgie bugs everywhere so I think they were a bit distracting. Ava is LOVING being sent to a reward at the end of an exercise, you should see how fast she runs to the treat container!

Is anyone still up for a playdate on Sunday morning? And if so, could I be a pain and ask if you can help us practice Figure of 8s?

Edited March 7, 2011 by wuffles

[koalathebear]

Is anyone still up for a playdate on Sunday morning? And if so, could I be a pain and ask if you can help us practice Figure of 8s?

Of course. We are happy to help!

We hope to go to the Cooma Show on Saturday to watch the Yard Dog Trials among other things. Hopefully we will buy yummy things to eat and can bring them along on Sunday

Will you help us practise Steady For Pats with both of our monsters?

Also, sorry to be a downer but the poundies at Mildura Pound are absolutely heartbreaking … Take a look at this happy-looking fellow who is all neglected and ring-wormy. There is also Neon the cute black lab and two very bewildered but absolutely beautiful Dobe x puppies … honestly they're gorgeous.

Most heart-breaking of all but makes me incredibly angry is the poor wolfhound female cross. I am horrified, really horrified that any owner could let their dog get into this condition – it's negligent and cruel ... I know our two dogs are spoiled but honestly it's not a HUGE effort to make sure your dogs don't get into the condition those poor poundies are in. ;)

Edited March 7, 2011 by koalathebear

[Clastic]

We're off on a camping trip this weekend so won't be able to go for a play-date.

Training wise we're still working on our heeling, any tips anyone? We're just doing a heap of short 5 min sessions as CleoJ has suggested, its just trying to keep Mars from wandering too far in front of me. We seem to be getting a bit better at home, the test will be out on an oval or something. 3 more weeks until assessment.. eeeeeeek!!!

There are so many worthy pound doggies, I find it very sad when I see a lot of surrenders posted.

[koalathebear]

wuffles - if the critical mass is insufficient, we can reschedule to when there are more doggies.

Edited March 8, 2011 by koalathebear

[wuffles]

Teaching heeling will be different for each dog, I guess the same as all training really

I'd say the main things that have improved our heelwork:

• making sure the dog knows what heel position actually is and make it FUN and REWARDING
  
• starting out very, very small--one step at a time--and not moving on too quickly!
  
• once the dog understands something, being strict about its enforcement
  
• letting the dog know that they will still get a reward for doing the right thing even if it is not in your hand at the time.
  

I just typed out a big, looooooong explanation of each of these points but I'll PM it to Clastic so I don't bore everyone else - let me know if anyone else wants it and I'll send a message!

With Ava being my first trialling dog I've just had to pick bits and pieces of advice from lots of sources... I've never found all this info in one place... so hopefully it's helpful Clastic

I am also happy to meet with you one arvo after work if you want! Not sure how much help I'd be but I can try!

[koalathebear]

I think it is fine to post it here - no one would be bored

[Clastic]

Thank you so much wuffles, your info is really helpful, I will be referring back to it constantly through our stages of heeling.

I'd be very grateful if we could meet up one arvo to see how I'm going. As I said I will be away this weekend, but during this week and the weekend we will work on it and hopefully improve. If we could meet up next week or something? I'm sure I could video myself to watch my faults, but it would be good for someone to actually watch in person and let me know.

[wuffles]

No probs Clastic, next week should be fine I can just come round your place if you want (will leave Mars' girlfriend at home) or we could do an oval or something.

Here you go KTB... hopefully no awesome dog trainers come in here and read this and pick it to pieces

Teaching heel position itself is important to make sure the dog actually knows what is expected of it from the start. I think it's a much slower process if you only have a vague criteria of 'you must walk beside me' which will most likely result in wrong timing and a confused doggie! I know this from experience So set your own criteria for what you mean by heel... for me it is, dog's shoulder touching or almost touching my knee, watching me, straight! Of course build this up as you would build up a reliable sit or drop or stay and don't expect them to do all of this straight away Ava knows she's not going to get a reward if she's asked to heel and her bum is sticking out to the side, or if she's not looking at me.

Building up slowly... unfortunately this is pretty much impossible in a class situation so it's one to practice at home. Once the dog can find heel position while you are stationery, you can start walking... but little steps. One step, halt, reward. One step, halt, reward. Once the dog does that reliably, do two steps, halt, reward. Then vary the amount of steps. If the dog starts forging after 2 steps, go back to 1 step and build it up again. Takes a lot of patience!

Make heeling rewarding for both you and them! It doesn't matter if you are popping treats every 2 seconds to start with. Play the 'two food game' which is where you throw some food away from you in one direction, let the dog go get it, then throw another piece of food in the opposite direction, let the dog go get it, then ask them to get in heel position. If they get it right, throw food and repeat. This gets most dogs pretty excited, even Satch doesn't mind this one! Ava loves catching food so if she's a little flat I will throw her rewards up in the air for her to catch them, this often puts her out of heel position so I make sure she is released, jog a few steps away, ask for a heel and repeat. Or if your dog likes to chase you, run away then ask them to heel, mark reward release, run away again, etc.

And one that has been very important for us and I wish I had done sooner: stick to your criteria and enforce it! I had been inadvertantly rewarding sloppiness for a long time. I think it's not so bad at the very start but once your dog definitely understands what is expected of it, don't reward half-arsed efforts. If your dog loses focus or leaves heel position, release them without reward and end the game. If you're at home you can end the training completely, they hate this. You can crate them as well, or what I do when I'm out is turn away from Ava with arms folded so she knows the game and therefore chance of reward is over. I wait about 30 seconds then try again.

What I was doing initially was, if she lagged or sniffed the ground, I would call her to me and once in the right position, reward. Being much smarter than me, she realised that she was still getting rewarded for this, so why bother focusing all the time?? As soon as I said heel, she'd be nose down... then look at me occasionally to see if she'd get a reward.

Lastly getting rid of a lure and eventually getting rid of food from your body at all... this is probably for once you have it quite down pat and want to get longer duration without reward. I do think it's still important to teach even if you don't want to trial, because there will be times you don't have a treat! I now give lots of 'jackpot' rewards from containers. I would get out 3-4 containers with 1/4 of her dinner, or something really good (like a sardine or chicken neck)... open one, show her, place it on the ground. Ask her to heel for say, 2 steps, then release and encourage her to go eat the food from the container. She LOVES this I'm still working on it... up to about 70-80 steps of heeling before releasing to go to the reward.

[The Ark]

Ava ate all the plants too, not that there were many to start with. She shredded a grassy shrub down to its stem (which has grown back in the past few months, YAY), stripped all the bark off one of our climbing plants, and dug in the garden beds and exposed all the plant roots. We didn't have any pot plants but I can tell you pretty easily what would have happened to them if we did

Edit: On another note, I sent in the entry form for our first obedience trials on 26 March Eeek! We had a bit of an average training session last night but there were annoying little midgie bugs everywhere so I think they were a bit distracting. Ava is LOVING being sent to a reward at the end of an exercise, you should see how fast she runs to the treat container!

Is anyone still up for a playdate on Sunday morning? And if so, could I be a pain and ask if you can help us practice Figure of 8s?

LOL you're funny - asking people to come for a playdate on the condition that they stand still as a post!

Good on you for entering a trial! Very proud of you. Vivi (Ava's mum) has had two training sessions since weaning the puppies. Last Sunday we did a trialling class and she was air-scenting the whole time. I have no idea what she could smell but it must have been good!

[kyliegirl]

of all toys echo will work for to the point of infatuation, its a tennis ball i found on the way home.. go figure lol..

[lilli_star]

It's way too long to put up here but I uploaded a file here which is extracts from my 'puppy diary' from the first few weeks we had Elbie. Oh man, I was sooooooo stressed. Reading back over it, I can't believe that we survived the first two weeks

Oh, God, so was I! It was the school holidays when I got Ruby, and I would seriously sit outside with her and think to myself wtf have I done????? How will I be able to just leave her in the yard when I go back to work (hence why I begged my dad to build me a fence ) Will the cat ever forgive me? etc etc Then I would get annoyed with myself because I grew up on a farm for goodness sake- of course, it's a lot easier when you're a kid, and you don't have to do everything by yourself. Plus it was winter, and the weather last year was so wet and crappy. I was a complete basketcase! Ruby did a lot of what Elbie did (ie, normal puppy behaviour :D )- leash grabbing, pant leg pulling, chewing, eating strange things (she ate a 5cm chunk out of her blanket when about 3 months old), toy destroying, digging etc. I have to say, I am in no hurry to get another puppy anytime soon. And although she still makes me worry about her, and drives me crazy at times, I have to remind myself that she is still only 10 months old- still a puppy, and for the most part is a lot calmer and well mannered than most other dogs I know. I really need to work on distractions with other dogs though, but don't have anyone to practice with :D

[koalathebear]

I really need to work on distractions with other dogs though, but don't have anyone to practice with :D

Well I keep telling you to come and visit us in Canberra - I have two extremely distracting monsters

Speaking of which, tonight I was training with Hoover and OH had finished with Elbie so decided to play tug with Elbie. Listening to Elbie growling in a frenzied fashion as OH is playing with tug with him was a massive test of Hoover's willpower He broke his sit-stay twice but eventually I managed to get him to ignore Elbie's tug play although I could see his ears twitching around with fierce attentiveness. Poor Hoover - he just wanted to go and join the fun

ETA: Those interested, please PM me for the facebook link :D If you have a mysterious name like lilli_star, please let me know what it is

Edited March 8, 2011 by koalathebear

[lilli_star]

Okay, I have been lured to the dark side

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

KTB - I definitely know how far you guys have come with Elbie, and I think you've done an amazing job! You have harnessed his energy so well already, I'm looking forward to seeing how he goes as he matures. He's a dog a lot of people would have struggled with, and he's become such a fun dog to have around

All of your puppy stories are making me cringe - this is why I got an adult ex show dog, but I think, unfortunately, my next dog will need to be a pup, to get what I want, and to get to do what I want from the start - and you guys are making me very nervous! Shandy has been nearly perfect to live with - she never bothered the cats, barely digs, usually only chews her own stuff, etc, etc. While I grew up with plenty of pups - my family bred Rhodesian Ridgebacks - the idea of having a puppy again is definitely making me nervous!

Wuffles has given some great heeling advice there - and Ava's heeling is a lovely example of how well these can work. I would just add - lots of those heeling games, with the emphasis of finding heel, turning, and heeling as you start off. Keep it short, and fun, and make sure that your dog wants to play the game!

I'll PM KTB for facebook - I use an alias, but its pretty similar to my DOL name, so it should be obvious!

[Clastic]

Wuffles has given some great heeling advice there - and Ava's heeling is a lovely example of how well these can work. I would just add - lots of those heeling games, with the emphasis of finding heel, turning, and heeling as you start off. Keep it short, and fun, and make sure that your dog wants to play the game!

Thanks CleoJ, I have taken your advice and have been trying to keep it short so that he's still interested in what I've got instead of getting bored and sloppy. I was actually holding a bag today and Mars thought it was food, so he came straight up to me on my left side and just sat there staring at me.

Puppies aren't all that bad, Mars was actually quite pleasant as a puppy, he was a dream to toilet train nor did he whinge at night. He did chew on things in the backyard, dig holes and kill all the plants but he sure did make me realise he was one of the easier pups to have. After having such an easy time with Mars, Pepper came along and she was the complete opposite!

[wuffles]

We had a bad training session last night It started off fine and we did some nice heelwork and stays. I should have left after that.

Then a dog that lives next to the oval jumped its fence. It's friendly, but won't leave you alone, so I let Ava have a quick play (otherwise it just follows you around like a bad smell). Its owner came out to get it, and in the process let their other dog, a mastiff x, out of its yard. It is a BIG dog and VERY rude and poor Ava was petrified as it was very rough in its attempts to sniff her. I was so upset :D After they both calmed down she did have a sniff of him and was more comfortable. She's already shy and submissive around unknown dogs and this will not help

Anyway, I decided to stay at the oval for a little while to calm her down, so we sat on the cricket pitch for 5 minutes just relaxing Afterwards I did a bit more training... bad idea! I was doing a formal recall, she wasn't watching me so I said her name to get her attention - and she started to come to me. So I put her back in her stay, walked away again and called her. Well now she seems to think that I'm trying to trick her into breaking her stay and just stares at me when I call her to come! I don't know whether to laugh or cry

As we were leaving a friendly beagle pup from our beginners class arrived at the oval so Ava had a nice play with him, which is good, I was hoping for a good doggie experience after the bad one earlier.

Thankfully I got some advice in the Training Talk thread and did some restrained recalls last night which went well. Then this morning I did some quick recalls for BBQ chicken which she did ok. Fingers crossed it was only last night and she's remembered what a recall is again