Laser Teeth Cleaning In Vic,are You Interested?

[InspectorRex]

How many dog owners out there want their dogs to have a proper scale and clean but don't want their dogs having a GA to do so?

One you don't like unnecessary GA's and two GA's make them drop coat!

Also as our dogs reach their older years it can be hard to keep their teeth and gums clean and healthy

Some dogs cannot have bones for whatever reason and mine fall into that catergory...

I have been in touch with a well knownVeterinarian who specialises in Veterinary Dentist here in Melbourne and he is going to find out all about it from the Vet in QLD that does it and will get back to me as he is extremely interested in starting this up.

A laser is used to clean the teeth so no GA as it is just like a vet consult and it is done usually every six months.

So if anyone is interested in having this done could you please email me privately at [email protected] and I will keep a list and then if we can get this happening here In Victoria I can let you all know.

Regards

Colleen

Edited May 4, 2010 by InspectorRex

[iggy mum]

Sounds really good! I would be very interested but the only problem is that atm, my babies teeth are sparkling clean and white... I'll keep a copy of this thread in my favourites so that when and if the time comes that I need it, I can follow up with you.... Cheers

[Guest Tess32]

Which vet in Melbourne?

[stormie]

I'm curious to hear more about this too. The main reason the animals are put under GA is to keep them still and to minimise the discomfort. The plaque often goes up to the gumline and builds up in the little crevices in the teeth, so getting to those places can be fiddly. I would imagine that even the laser technique would need the animal to be held quite still and would have to be ok with someone holding their mouth open for a long period of time to get to the plaque on the insides of all the teeth, not just the outside. I just can't imagine a process which could be done thoroughly which could be done with a dog completely awake but more than happy to have it explained!

[InspectorRex]

Stormie, from the way it was explained to me by a friend in QLD who has their dogs teeth cleaned this way it is a similar method they use under a GA just different techniques and the dog has to be used to having it's mouth inspected.

Most Conformation dogs would be used to that as they have to have their mouths examined by Judges for correct bites and dentitition etc and I think most dogs owned by DOLers would be used to having their mouths 'looked at'/

tess32- the Vet specialises in veterinary dentistry and consults at many Clinics across the South Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne.

The Vet in QLD that does it sees the dogs twice a year for their 'scale and clean'

having a breed( Collies) that do not blend with GA's I am hoping that we can get this up and running here in Vic.

I will keep you all informed as the the progress of this and crossing paws too that it can happen

[Are You Serious Jo]

There is a huge difference between a dog having the teeth looked at and holding perfectly still for a long procedure, it would be a rare dog that could hold still enough without sedation.

I'm really curious about how they do this, who is the vet in Melbourne?

[WreckitWhippet]

Why do the owners have to email you. Why can't the details of the vet be provided, so that owners can call them with any questions that they may have, regarding the proceedure

[Guest Tess32]

Sorry IR I wasn't clear, what is the NAME of the vet

[stormie]

Stormie, from the way it was explained to me by a friend in QLD who has their dogs teeth cleaned this way it is a similar method they use under a GA just different techniques and the dog has to be used to having it's mouth inspected.

Most Conformation dogs would be used to that as they have to have their mouths examined by Judges for correct bites and dentitition etc and I think most dogs owned by DOLers would be used to having their mouths 'looked at'/

I get that they're used to having their mouths inspected, but there's a MASSIVE difference between inspecting a mouth and scaling a tooth. For something to remove the plaque build up, its got to be reasonably strong, so I'm just not sure how I can imagine using a laser on and under the gum line without it causing some sort of discomfort for the dog.

Plus, when a dog is under GA having a 'normal' dental, you have to get right in there to do the insides and outsides of the very black molars - something I just can't see a non sedated/GA'd dog letting happen.

Personally, I'd rather go with a GA (and if there are concerns, get pre bloods done) and have it done without ordeal and know that it's completely thorough and that should any teeth look not so good they can come out there and then.

But like I said - happy to hear about how its done. I have googled 'veterinary laser dentistry' and can't come up with anything remotely like you've mentioned.

Edited April 30, 2010 by stormie

[Ms James]

Could they use twilight sleep for it?

[Are You Serious Jo]

I have only heard about laser dentals being used on dogs that were GAed. What is it about this procedure IR that is different to the instrument and laser dentals done now? You need to have the dog knocked out completely for both of those.

Anything that makes these procedures faster for the dog is great

[InspectorRex]

The Vet who does this in QLD is Dr Scott Heinemann at Ascot Vet Clinic.

After speaking several times with a fellow Collie breeder/owner who takes their Collies in for a 6mthly scale and clean I have been trying for months to find someone here in Victoria that can do this.

I contacted my former Vet, Dr Stephen Coles , as he specialises in Vet Dentistry but is only at his clinc in Sandringham a couple of days of month these days.

I left all the details with the Receptionist and one of Dr Coles associates( Dr Rod Salter) who specialises in Vet Dentistry and he called me today to obtain all the details for the Vet in QLD and he will be contacting him to find out what is involved and if it is feasiable to do and a better options for breeds that do not blend well with GA's.

I also contacted the other Vet Dentistry here in Vic, Dr David Clarke, 2 days ago and I am still waiting for at least a Courtesy call back

Years ago I had a Collie stop breathing under a GA(routine procedure) and it was only the quickness of the Vet that she came too and made it through. Several friends have lost Collies and Shelties uner GA's for routine procedures so anything that will lessen the risk is worth looking into.

From the way it was explained to me it is very similar to ones done under a GA with much less risk.

Collies are especially obliging when having things done to them. My beloved Maggie aka Ch Colbeau Go Get Em legal, had a blocked tear duct and most would have to have a GA for this. Not Maggie, she sat there and let the Opthamologist prod and probe etc all under a local anaesthtic and he had a Vet over from Germany and she was so amazed that my Collie just said there that she recorded it on her camcorder to show the Vets 'back home' as they would not believe her.

I will keep you all up to date as soon as i know any more.

Edited April 30, 2010 by InspectorRex

[Silverblue]

Dr Rod Salter as advised on another forum,

from what I can tell it is the same procedure as is done under GA.

Not many dogs I know of that would sit still for that ????????

The vet admits not many dogs will sit still for such a procedure.

To me it sounds like a lot of uneeded stress to put on a dog, I would rather have a GA,

Oh & ANY dog can be at risk of a GA, pre bloods & fluids would be a option in those circumstaces.

[InspectorRex]

SilverBlue- I always have pre-bloods with a GA but my breed and several others are extremely sensitive to GA's.

My friend in QLD has her dogs done this way and if the dog is used to being"mouthed" it is not an issue.

As I said before it may not be feasible but if it is it will lessen the risk factor for those of us with GA sensitive breeds.

Even if it could be done with light sedation would be less risky as a GA IMHO

Edited May 1, 2010 by InspectorRex

[westiemum]

Hi IR,

Thanks this sounds very interesting - I too have dogs who are pretty good at cooperating with procedures so I'd be intersted in hearing more about this procedure. My guys sit there through whatever waiting for their liver treat! Just after my old boy came out of the puppy farm some years ago, the vet wiggled out a putrid tooth which must have been incredibly painful on the examination table without sedation - the tooth was that bad. He then turned around and licked the vet! So I'd be interested so I could then ask my vet to inverstigate with your vet so South Aussies have a choice too.

My old boy in particular (who has had 3 GAs since November and is looking down the barrell of another if this latest ACL repair doesn't heal), has bad teeth from his puppy farm days and given the connection between bad teeth in dogs and heart disease I need to keep on top of the teeth cleaning problem - but the frequency of GA concerns me - so anything that might allow me to look after his teeth frequently and well while reducing the number of GAs he has in my mind is a good thing - and gives people choice.

Thanks for the info.

Edited May 1, 2010 by westiemum

[InspectorRex]

That is the aim of trying to get something in Vic that won't require a GA. It may or may not happen but Dr Salter is listening to the concerns of those of us with breeds that do not blend well with GA's and he will try and get something happening and he has promised to get back to me.

Even if it had to be done with 'light sedation' that would be far better than a GA.

Dr Coles and Dr Inglis at Sandringham operated on my old Collie boy at age 12yo to remove a tumour on the face just under the eye. it was done with light sedation ( it needed 5 sutures) and my boy , well apart fromthe wound, you woldn't have known that he had even been given sedation.

Maybe if DOLers are interested in something like this they could at least ring the Clinic( now known as Green Cross Vet Hospital, Bluff Rd Sandringham- used to be Sandringham Vet Hospital) and that way we will have more chance of getting a safer way to have dog's teeth clean and healthy as Dr Salter will then know there is a need for this.

[Rappie]

I get that they're used to having their mouths inspected, but there's a MASSIVE difference between inspecting a mouth and scaling a tooth. For something to remove the plaque build up, its got to be reasonably strong, so I'm just not sure how I can imagine using a laser on and under the gum line without it causing some sort of discomfort for the dog.

Plus, when a dog is under GA having a 'normal' dental, you have to get right in there to do the insides and outsides of the very black molars - something I just can't see a non sedated/GA'd dog letting happen.

Personally, I'd rather go with a GA (and if there are concerns, get pre bloods done) and have it done without ordeal and know that it's completely thorough and that should any teeth look not so good they can come out there and then.

But like I said - happy to hear about how its done. I have googled 'veterinary laser dentistry' and can't come up with anything remotely like you've mentioned.

I'm interested to hear more too as I'm not sure of the procedure.

Edit: I've done some reading and I'm not convinced that 'laser dentistry' is a stand alone field. As far as I can gather a (non surgical) laser is used AFTER a ultrasonic clean and polish to seal the sulcus and stimulate reattachment of the gingiva. 'Laser' does not make it magical.

I have the same concerns regarding subgingival procedures, not to mention access to the lingual surfaces of teeth - it's sometimes difficult enough in a dog under GA. I would also have some reservations about doing dental procedures under any type of sedation - reduced gag reflex / airway protection, access to the mouth, loss of inhibition (getting personnel or equipment bitten accidentally or otherwise) etc would all make me very cautious. I would assume that an ultrasonic scaler and oscillating polisher would need to still be involved somewhere.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Rappie

[InspectorRex]

Thanks Rappie. That is what Dr Salter is trying to find out, ie how is it done and is it safe to do for both dog and Vet alike.

Mine have their teeth hand scaled on a regular basis and then our Vet checks them in "Dental Month(August here in Vic) and decides if Vet dentistry is needed and if not their files are noted as such .

[Mim]

I am in Perth but I would use this service if it was available here.

[stormie]

I think people are really underestimating the jaw tone of a dog. When a dog is under GA, they lose jaw tone, which allows you to open their mouths quite wide to get the scaler, and thus your hand, inside the dogs mouth. Jaw tone is something which is used to assess the depth of anaesthesia - if a dog is light, their tone is stronger and there's a lot more resistance to open the mouth. So a dog that is just sedated, will still have jaw tone and make it very difficult to open their mouths.

You could even try it now - try forcing your dogs mouth open as wide as you can to allow easy access to the very rear molars (you'll probably need to grab the tongue too, to get it out of the way) and see how long you can hold it open for.

I'm not doubting the laser, but what I am doubting is that anyone can do a thorough job on a dog that isn't completely anaesthetised.