Difference Between Mini And Standard Poodles

[Zug Zug]

I was having a chat last night at training with a really accomplished trainer, and she was talking about how great mini poodles are for dog sports. I have also heard standard poodle people talk about how great standards are.

Just wondering - what are the differences (pros and cons) of minis vs. standards for dog sports? I've heard people say that standards are more 'stable'? But I've also heard people say they are more prone to joint problems?

I am a year or so away from getting my next dog. I have been wavering between standard poodle or maybe a lagotto (I am allergic to normal dog hair). But I have had minis previously and always loved them.

I am interested to hear what people think and what your experiences have been.

[poodlefan]

Can only talk to Minis.

Quicker to mature than a Standard. Smaller dog means more bending to signal in obedience (or at least initally). They tend to be neat dogs.

A confident drivey Mini (they aren't all like that) tends to do well in its height class in agility and can potentially do well against most dogs.

Personally I prefer the Mini personality. No doubt Standard people will disagree but I find young Standards a bit too goofy for me. However a good Standard in obedience is very very nice to watch. I think the Standard's size would make it the better tracking prospect.

Edited April 29, 2010 by poodlefan

[Zug Zug]

Thanks PF. The 'faster to mature' issue is definitely one to think about. I am so used to having lovely old well-trained dogs. A puppy is an exciting but also daunting prospect.

But I also have a bad back and neck, so less bending is pretty appealing. And I've always pined for a standard - they are so beautiful and at nearly 40 with teenagers (not little kids) I think from a life stage perspective now is a really good time to do it.

Hard to decide, but luckily in no rush so plenty of time to mull it over.

I hadn't thought about the competition in different height classes (haven't done any agility with my current dogs). That's worth thinking about. I take it from that comment that standards struggle to compete with the kelpies and BCs in the higher height classes?

[poodlefan]

Thanks PF. The 'faster to mature' issue is definitely one to think about. I am so used to having lovely old well-trained dogs. A puppy is an exciting but also daunting prospect.

But I also have a bad back and neck, so less bending is pretty appealing. And I've always pined for a standard - they are so beautiful and at nearly 40 with teenagers (not little kids) I think from a life stage perspective now is a really good time to do it.

Hard to decide, but luckily in no rush so plenty of time to mull it over.

I hadn't thought about the competition in different height classes (haven't done any agility with my current dogs). That's worth thinking about. I take it from that comment that standards struggle to compete with the kelpies and BCs in the higher height classes?

Talk to some standard owners/breeders but SP's stay "puppies" for a fair length of time.

Most standards would be in the 600 (ie jumping 600mm) class and the Kelpies and BCs are often a class below. When all heights compete, the faster working dogs are hard to beat but they dont' win all the time.

If you have a back back and neck, also consider lifting a larger pup/dog into the car, the tub and walking a stronger dog on lead. You'd probably do that more often than you'll do obedience training.

[GoldenGirl85]

Thanks PF. The 'faster to mature' issue is definitely one to think about. I am so used to having lovely old well-trained dogs. A puppy is an exciting but also daunting prospect.

But I also have a bad back and neck, so less bending is pretty appealing. And I've always pined for a standard - they are so beautiful and at nearly 40 with teenagers (not little kids) I think from a life stage perspective now is a really good time to do it.

Hard to decide, but luckily in no rush so plenty of time to mull it over.

I hadn't thought about the competition in different height classes (haven't done any agility with my current dogs). That's worth thinking about. I take it from that comment that standards struggle to compete with the kelpies and BCs in the higher height classes?

Talk to some standard owners/breeders but SP's stay "puppies" for a fair length of time.

Most standards would be in the 600 (ie jumping 600mm) class and the Kelpies and BCs are often a class below. When all heights compete, the faster working dogs are hard to beat but they dont' win all the time.

If you have a back back and neck, also consider lifting a larger pup/dog into the car, the tub and walking a stronger dog on lead. You'd probably do that more often than you'll do obedience training.

But on saying that constantly bending down to treat a little dog is quite demanding especially on a bad back, ramps are easily made or bought

I dont know how tall a mini stands but I know there is a big difference in the height between the minis and standards

[Kavik]

Most standards would be in the 600 (ie jumping 600mm) class and the Kelpies and BCs are often a class below.

Unless they have a huge Kelpie like mine who has to jump 600

I've seen more Minis than Standards in agility. Could be because they are more popular generally?

[poodlefan]

Most standards would be in the 600 (ie jumping 600mm) class and the Kelpies and BCs are often a class below.

Unless they have a huge Kelpie like mine who has to jump 600

I've seen more Minis than Standards in agility. Could be because they are more popular generally?

If litter regos are anything to go buy, the Mini is the least popular of the three sizes. Buggered if I know why.

[poodlefan]

But on saying that constantly bending down to treat a little dog is quite demanding especially on a bad back, ramps are easily made or bought

I dont know how tall a mini stands but I know there is a big difference in the height between the minis and standards

Average mini height is probably 13-15 inches at the shoulder.

Standards? Haven't seen one below about 23 inches in a long time and the boys get a lot bigger.

[Kavik]

Most standards would be in the 600 (ie jumping 600mm) class and the Kelpies and BCs are often a class below.

Unless they have a huge Kelpie like mine who has to jump 600

I've seen more Minis than Standards in agility. Could be because they are more popular generally?

If litter regos are anything to go buy, the Mini is the least popular of the three sizes. Buggered if I know why.

That is odd, they are such a nice size. Though a Poodle is in no way on my list (no offence :cool: ), the Mini would be my preference due to size.

[Zug Zug]

Re my back and neck, yes I bend to both of my dogs now and I have to say this is a big issue. I had spinal surgery last year and it is now a lot better, but will always be an issue I fear.

My dogs both jump into the car so I'm not concerned about teaching a dog to do that. Jumping onto the grooming table is something I've seen a lot of larger dogs do (although I lift my two currently) so I could train that too. Re bathing a larger dog, I think with a standard I would set up a hot/cold tap against the wall on a lowish platform, so they just step up. But yes you always need to lift them sometimes (at the vet etc.) so I need to be strong enough to do that.

I've been meaning to ask someone if I could lift their dog to see how it feels, but I'm a bit shy about asking. Most dogs won't want to be lifted by a stranger, will they? Zamba (my larger dog) weighs 9kg so it would be very different from what I am used to.

ETA - but minis fit on the couch nicely and in the car nicely and if you're tired you don't need to walk them EVERY day, so life with a mini might be a lot easier. I am hopelessly undecided I'm afraid.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Zug Zug

[poodlefan]

Re my back and neck, yes I bend to both of my dogs now and I have to say this is a big issue. I had spinal surgery last year and it is now a lot better, but will always be an issue I fear.

My dogs both jump into the car so I'm not concerned about teaching a dog to do that. Jumping onto the grooming table is something I've seen a lot of larger dogs do (although I lift my two currently) so I could train that too.

Old dogs and pups can not or should not do these jumps. Hefting a 20kg + aging Standard Poodle into cars, baths etc may be something worth thinking about.

I'd suggest you spend some time around the big guys.

[Zug Zug]

Good points and a good suggestion. I'll have to see what I can arrange.

[ness]

I can tell you there is quite a difference even between lifting a 14kg dog and a 17kg dog. I can manage 14kg pretty easily (and I am pretty strong) but lifting 17kg you can feel the difference.

[skip]

I had a mini poodle once but the ones I train with in agility are mostly toys with a few mini. There is a local lady here who has silver std's who do well in obedience and agility but she does mainly do obedience. Maybe somebody like her would be good to discuss the choice with? I know she was telling me she had a poodle std at home with my name on it.

I love the std as they are so grand but would go the mini ( or toy) as I have more than one dog and small are so practical. Easier to wash, fit in the bed/car and travel with.

Good luck with the search.

[luvsablue]

On having both a mini poodle and a bad back......

You can do a lot of your training sitting down close to the little dog's level.

You don't need to be standing all the time.

And when you are, you don't need to bend down to feed treats.

You can teach the pup to catch pieces of food dropped from a short way from fingertips.

When pup can catch those toss the rewards from a bit higher until he can catch really well.

All your early sits downs and stands can be taught with you sitting down, also basic hold

and sit in front for retrieves, sit in front for recall.

Or most of this early puppy stuff can be taught with pup on a table and you standing, not

bending down.

luvsablue

[Staranais]

In the last few years I've changed from sharing my life with a very short 18kg dog to a very tall 28kg dog.

It's much easier teaching heeling, fronts, etc to a taller dog! I can't believe how simple it is heeling with a dog whose face is right at hip height, compared to a dog whose face is down at knee level.

But she is also much, much harder to lift and carry. If I had a sore back or joints, I think I'd definitely go with a smaller, lighter dog. Not poodle specific at all, just my experience.

[Zug Zug]

Thanks to everyone for all your input and thoughts.

I agree with the earlier post about there being ways to train a smaller dog with less bending if you are careful. Not sure about training in a chair - for my particular back problems I think this would be worse than standing actually but I guess that would depend what each person's issues are. Mine are with my neck mainly. Best to bend the knees than roll my body forward.

But clicker training is perfect because you can reward from a distance, and throw the treats so yep that's a great way to do things once they get the initial idea. And using a target stick. This is what I was doing in the months following my surgery last year and while it was still pretty difficult while I was in that fragile state, it was possible and I'm in pretty good shape now. But to be honest I still do a fair bit of bending because there are some things I like to reward 'in position' so it's less bending rather than no bending.

I also took up the suggestion in an earlier post and played with a std at training this morning. I was lucky enough that one of the students with a white std he has been having trouble with was happy to swap dogs for a bit and let me take him.

Wow what a difference! This boy is a big fella and yes having that head at your hip is very easy and quite a nice feeling. I could really get used to that - a heart reaction not a head reaction I know. It just felt good. He was closer and communication was so much easier.

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) he didn't really play up while I had him and in fact heeled beautifully much to his owner's frustration (this dog likes women I think). But yes he's a big boy at 30+kg and his owner showed me how he puts him on a table for grooming by getting the dog to put his front paws up, and then the handler grabs the dog's behind and lifts the rest of him up.

There was a mini puppy there today also and I had a nice cuddle. I love both versions actually. The calmness of this puppy was beautiful and very reassuring. But I have to say that today I felt like I wanted a standard. Sometimes it's hard to put your finger on why. It just is.

One thing I did notice about the std today was that he was puffing the whole time we were walking and it seemed a real effort for him to do what Zamba would do without hardly trying. Is this a common problem? I've always thought stds were full of energy, and asked the dog's owner if he puffed like that all the time and he said he was a bit concerned about it too. He said he'd had stds before and they didn't puff like that. But the vet said there is nothing wrong with the dog and that's just what he's like.

Now he'd already done 2 classes but he wasn't distracted. Actually quite focussed. But the physical side was a big effort for him. Zamba would run rings around him. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Probably a bad thing.