What Does This Mean?

[poodlefan]

I think at shows it would be a good idea to have a stall where there are pamphlets about each breed, cards with breeder info etc. Make it more public friendly.

At the moment the scene is very uninviting. Exhibitors sit around in a big circle chatting. There is no way I would approach them. I know people are there to exhibit their dogs, but surely they could be a little more inviting?

I love purebreds just as much as most people on this forum do and I want to see them still going strong in the years to come. But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting. It is really that simple.

P.S. send me a xolo. kthxbi.

It's hard to be friendly and inviting with one eye on progress in your ring and the other grooming your dog. Timing is everything but a lot of folk don't know that.

I agree that information stalls are a great idea but I think it's not feasible at every show. Maybe one or two a year at the bigger venues with appropriate advertising would be good. We have this at our Royal.

Of course don't forget that all those breed stalls at Pet Expos are staffed by volunteer breed club members.

[Aziah]

Why tell them to go to a show to chat to breeders when there is a very high chance breeders won't even speak to them?????

But most will if asked when a good time to chat is for the exhibitor

[FranVT]

I went to my first show ever last weekend and stood around looking very lost looking for the woman who was supposed to be meeting me (turns out she hadn't arrived yet) with a soft crate in carry bag, cool-bag full of ice and drinks for Luuka and I, handbag, bag with show clothes / grooming stuff and camping chair! It took about 30 seconds before a lovely man asked what he could carry and led me back to his gazebo where his wife and daughter were sitting with their Pomeranians and German Spitz I ended up staying with them and they did not even get sick of my constant silly questions. Every single person I came across was lovely and inviting although it was a small country show so that probably helped. I was warned away from showing because of all the 'crazies' but I have not come across a single crazy yet - early days though! Just wanted to toss that in as a good first-timer experience. Though I was told that because I am 100% open to constructive criticism, advice and correction it makes me not such a pain in the ar*e as some first timers.

[Niques]

Breeders, do you actually notice a decrease in "time wasters" when you put the comment on your websites? As I struggle to believe that the people in these cases many of you have described, would have the insight to realise that applies to them.

Edit: Was thinking of the wrong word.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Niques

[Spot.]

I think at shows it would be a good idea to have a stall where there are pamphlets about each breed, cards with breeder info etc. Make it more public friendly.

At the moment the scene is very uninviting. Exhibitors sit around in a big circle chatting. There is no way I would approach them. I know people are there to exhibit their dogs, but surely they could be a little more inviting?

I love purebreds just as much as most people on this forum do and I want to see them still going strong in the years to come. But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting. It is really that simple.

P.S. send me a xolo. kthxbi.

The scene is very uninviting? YOU wouldn't approach (that's a choice YOU have made)!

Dog shows are there for exhibitors to exhibit their dogs (you get that part as stated above in your post), I have no problem with the public coming to shows and I have no problem taking the time to talk to people enquiring about the breed provided they realise that time is often limited.

I'm not going to want to sit down and have a decent chat to someone when I'm in the middle of a conversation with other exhibitors or when I'm busy preparing dogs.

If people are going to visit the dog shows, please approach a breeder of the breed you're interested in and simply ask them when a good time would be for you to return to talk to them meet their dogs etc.

Spotty - you're making dog shows out to be something they are not, basically rubbishing them and inturn those people who exhibit...you'll win no friends here

Aziah. Seriously. Maybe you have been involved in the show scene for 500 years (gee maybe your parents showed too?), but most people in the general public have not.

All I said was I think it would be a good idea to have pamphlets available so if breeders are busy, they have a stall which has pamphlets. It is daunting for newbies. You probably wouldn't know or have forgotten because you have been doing it forever ;)

My experiences have not been the same as yours. So don't you dare tell me that I rubbish breeders and showing because I bloody well do not. But don't think for a second that there aren't simple improvements that can be made to showing which will steer the public towards registered breeders and not against.

[poodlefan]

I was warned away from showing because of all the 'crazies' but I have not come across a single crazy yet - early days though! Just wanted to toss that in as a good first-timer experience. Though I was told that because I am 100% open to constructive criticism, advice and correction it makes me not such a pain in the ar*e as some first timers.

My guess is many of those warning you away have rarely, if ever darkened a ring themselves Fran or have their own agendas to push.

Yep, there are arseholes but most folk I know are lovely. You avoid the arseholes at shows just like you do in every day life. They tend to start emerging from the woodwork when you beat them.

If you want crazy, come down here! I still need to get my "show Olympics" off the ground for lunchtime entertainment.

Edited April 29, 2010 by poodlefan

[Ashanali]

Aziah, Spotty is buying a dog from my next litter so I know she doesn't entirely disagree. However I have been witness to some horrible treatment to newbies and general public at shows over the years. Yes, there are members who really do go out of their way to help but it only takes one rotten egg to ruin it for everyone.

Moving along... I don't see people calling up and asking questions about the breed as timewasters as long as they make it clear what their intentions are. I even had a question about allergies asked on my blog last week... and I answered it as best I could.

Time wasters = people who indicate they are interested in a puppy and tell breeders what they want to hear then at the last minute they say, "no, actually I'm not ready for a pup".

Time wasters = the people who call up about 15 people over various breeds and go out to look at puppies with no intention of buying them, they just think it's a nice way to entertain the kids on a weekend (and yes, this does happen... and it puts puppies at risk when people go from one house to the next spreading germs from one litter to the next.)

Edited April 29, 2010 by Ashanali

[Aziah]

I went to my first show ever last weekend and stood around looking very lost looking for the woman who was supposed to be meeting me (turns out she hadn't arrived yet) with a soft crate in carry bag, cool-bag full of ice and drinks for Luuka and I, handbag, bag with show clothes / grooming stuff and camping chair! It took about 30 seconds before a lovely man asked what he could carry and led me back to his gazebo where his wife and daughter were sitting with their Pomeranians and German Spitz I ended up staying with them and they did not even get sick of my constant silly questions. Every single person I came across was lovely and inviting although it was a small country show so that probably helped. I was warned away from showing because of all the 'crazies' but I have not come across a single crazy yet - early days though! Just wanted to toss that in as a good first-timer experience. Though I was told that because I am 100% open to constructive criticism, advice and correction it makes me not such a pain in the ar*e as some first timers.

So glad you had a wonderful first time dog show experience ;)

I think at shows it would be a good idea to have a stall where there are pamphlets about each breed, cards with breeder info etc. Make it more public friendly.

At the moment the scene is very uninviting. Exhibitors sit around in a big circle chatting. There is no way I would approach them. I know people are there to exhibit their dogs, but surely they could be a little more inviting?

I love purebreds just as much as most people on this forum do and I want to see them still going strong in the years to come. But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting. It is really that simple.

P.S. send me a xolo. kthxbi.

The scene is very uninviting? YOU wouldn't approach (that's a choice YOU have made)!

Dog shows are there for exhibitors to exhibit their dogs (you get that part as stated above in your post), I have no problem with the public coming to shows and I have no problem taking the time to talk to people enquiring about the breed provided they realise that time is often limited.

I'm not going to want to sit down and have a decent chat to someone when I'm in the middle of a conversation with other exhibitors or when I'm busy preparing dogs.

If people are going to visit the dog shows, please approach a breeder of the breed you're interested in and simply ask them when a good time would be for you to return to talk to them meet their dogs etc.

Spotty - you're making dog shows out to be something they are not, basically rubbishing them and inturn those people who exhibit...you'll win no friends here

Aziah. Seriously. Maybe you have been involved in the show scene for 500 years (gee maybe your parents showed too?), but most people in the general public have not.

All I said was I think it would be a good idea to have pamphlets available so if breeders are busy, they have a stall which has pamphlets. It is daunting for newbies. You probably wouldn't know or have forgotten because you have been doing it forever

My experiences have not been the same as yours. So don't you dare tell me that I rubbish breeders and showing because I bloody well do not. But don't think for a second that there aren't simple improvements that can be made to showing which will steer the public towards registered breeders and not against.

That's not all you said ;) you said At the moment the scene is very uninviting and But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting and breeders don't return their emails and they aren't helpful on the phone

That's not speaking highly of dog shows or exhibitors/breeders is it now???

[FranVT]

I was warned away from showing because of all the 'crazies' but I have not come across a single crazy yet - early days though! Just wanted to toss that in as a good first-timer experience. Though I was told that because I am 100% open to constructive criticism, advice and correction it makes me not such a pain in the ar*e as some first timers.

My guess is many of those warning you away have rarely, if ever darkened a ring themselves Fran or have their own agendas to push.

Yep, there are arseholes but most folk I know are lovely. You avoid the arseholes at shows just like you do in every day life. They tend to start emerging from the woodwork when you beat them.

If you want crazy, come down here! ;) I still need to get my "show Olympics" off the ground for lunchtime entertainment.

I think you're right! I remember once someone was going "those people are mad, their whole lives revolve around their dogs, they spend ages grooming them before the shows and then trot them around the ring like prize pigs" and I'm thinking ".... sounds normal to me!" I think it's just non-dog people who don't get it.

[ellz]

I might be wrong so please correct me if I am but I think that the context in which some of the breeders on here are describing time-wasters is when they have a litter of puppies advertised and somebody contacts them saying they are interested and then gives them the line about "no room", "haven't discussed with OH", etc etc.

I don't think they're referring to a situation where somebody calls them and explains that they aren't currently in a position to buy but would like some information about the breed etc....right?

I think there's a big difference between using a perceived interest in buying as a means to obtain informations, pics, prices, etc rather than just being honest and saying you're researching. I haven't met many breeders who have a problem providing information if it is requested in the right way. There's two different situations and I think the time-wasting refers to the former which is, let's face it, a bit deceptive.

That's just my experience and I know there's all types out there so every experience isn't always going to be positive or that straight forward.

EXACTLY!!!

As I said in my reply...I'm more than happy to spend hours talking about my breeds and to answer any questions and I receive many, many calls and emails every week whether I have anything available for rehoming or not.

9 times out of 10 a caller themselves will know if they are a timewaster or photo collector. Many are just trying to amuse themselves. Many of them have phoned/emailed EVERY breeder they can find trying to find a puppy....not the BEST puppy/breeder match for them but the cheapest or the one they can haggle down. And many others of them have absolutely NO intention of purchasing because they don't have any money at all, but think that they might manage to luck into something if they try hard enough.

[Aziah]

Aziah, Spotty is buying a dog from my next litter so I know she doesn't entirely disagree. However I have been witness to some horrible treatment to newbies and general public at shows over the years. Yes, there are members who really do go out of their way to help but it only takes one rotten egg to ruin it for everyone.

I know but I'm just trying to point out to people that just because a few people may have had a bad experience at a show with exhibitors not wanting to talk or being rude doesn't make us ALL that way

It's tough reading stuff like that when I go out of my way to help people when I can and give them the info that they require...

[poodlemum]

I am happy to talk to people about my breed, and even happy for them to come & look at my puppies if they tell me upfront that they are just "tyrekicking" at the moment.

I really should offload some of the books I accumulated tyre kicking. Have got The Complete Standard Poodle for one! ;) Great book!

That's the absolute BIBLE!! I particularly like it because she mentions "Wildwind" in the NZ section (my foundation bitch & stud were from Wildwind and I have known Karen Graham for many years)

I feel no time wasters is confrontational.

Even when stated what colour I have available I still get people ringing who want it to morph into a blenheim.

I have actually changed one person colour preference once they had seen pics of a ruby, as they where unaware that colour existed.

I enjoy talking to people so never find it a problem. What does miff me if someone is a sure sale and pull at the 11th hour. But its their loss and another persons gain.

I had some people (friends of my Vet) come to look at puppies a few years back - they were adamant that they wanted a black boy but, every time thay came out, one of the white girls would run up to them & follow them around - guess what they ended up with! ;)

I was at a show not long ago (not showing, just keeping a friend company) and spent about 1/2 hour talking to some people about Poodles in general - they made it clear upfront that they were not looking for a Standard but I was happy to talk to them and didn't consider them "time wasters" at all!

Edited April 29, 2010 by poodlemum

[Ashanali]

Aziah, Spotty is buying a dog from my next litter so I know she doesn't entirely disagree. However I have been witness to some horrible treatment to newbies and general public at shows over the years. Yes, there are members who really do go out of their way to help but it only takes one rotten egg to ruin it for everyone.

I know but I'm just trying to point out to people that just because a few people may have had a bad experience at a show with exhibitors not wanting to talk or being rude doesn't make us ALL that way

It's tough reading stuff like that when I go out of my way to help people when I can and give them the info that they require...

But you still need to think of it from a newby point of view too. While YOU might be willing to help, what happens to the person who just rocks up to a show and starts wandering around. They walk close to a dog and go to put their hand out and get snapped at, "Don't touch! We're about to go in the ring." and handler turns back to talk to whoever they were talking to before they were interrupted.

So they walk up to a dog in a crate and they get snapped at, "Don't touch! The dog is protective of his crate." And the owner eyeballs them until they walk away.

I have seen this happen so many times and I know that the exhibitors aren't at fault because they ARE doing the right thing for their dogs but the public also aren't at fault because they know no better and they are usually so put off from asking question after that so they no longer bother.

It's intimidating being a person who has to try and initiate conversation with people when everyone else seems so familiar with each other.

I KNOW that most people are willing to help as long as they aren't about to go into the ring but owners/breeders also need to look approachable or else the public will just walk past them and feel ignored. Yes, it takes two to tango and the public do need to put themselves out there and ask question because breeders aren't mind readers, I'm just pointing out how hard it can be for some.

[Angelina]

Look, I have probably been considered a "time waster". Well I know I have.

Some years ago, when my daughter was still young, we really wanted a St Bernard

So I rang some breeders, and chatted.

A lady told me I could have a pup from her next litter.... Yippeee..... excitement all around

She sent me some literature, and I jumped on the net

and the more I read and read... I thought we are not the right owners for this breed of dog

So I rang her, and told her, still love them, but after reading all about them, we are not the right family

She was PISSED.... probably thought I was a timewaster

I actually think I was being responsible...

Never mind

[ellz]

Look, I have probably been considered a "time waster". Well I know I have.

Some years ago, when my daughter was still young, we really wanted a St Bernard

So I rang some breeders, and chatted.

A lady told me I could have a pup from her next litter.... Yippeee..... excitement all around

She sent me some literature, and I jumped on the net

and the more I read and read... I thought we are not the right owners for this breed of dog

So I rang her, and told her, still love them, but after reading all about them, we are not the right family

She was PISSED.... probably thought I was a timewaster

I actually think I was being responsible...

Never mind

Sounds very reasonable and responsible to me. I'd just say that breeder is one of the ones who belongs in the rude breeders' thread.

I'd rather a person do their research and change their mind BEFORE they take a puppy, saves a lot of angst all around later on.

[conztruct]

Look, I have probably been considered a "time waster". Well I know I have.

Some years ago, when my daughter was still young, we really wanted a St Bernard

So I rang some breeders, and chatted.

A lady told me I could have a pup from her next litter.... Yippeee..... excitement all around

She sent me some literature, and I jumped on the net

and the more I read and read... I thought we are not the right owners for this breed of dog

So I rang her, and told her, still love them, but after reading all about them, we are not the right family

She was PISSED.... probably thought I was a timewaster

I actually think I was being responsible...

Never mind

I think it's great that you did some research and were honest enough to work out that the St was not for your family and it was polite of you to go back to the breeder and tell them - a lot of them get no response at all if people lost interest or decide the breed is not for them.

I guess how p1ssed the breeder may have been could have come about from the conversations you had especially if you said "yes, we definately want one of your puppies" - I think breeders have an expectation that if the enquiry gets to the that stage, that the buyer has already worked out whether the breed is for them. I only said "if" - I don't know what the context of your conversation was - if you'd said "we're interested but I need to do some research first and will respond to you" then I don't think they should have been too upset about it.

[Spot.]

That's not all you said you said At the moment the scene is very uninviting and But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting and breeders don't return their emails and they aren't helpful on the phone

That's not speaking highly of dog shows or exhibitors/breeders is it now???

I like showies, and I like breeders. That is why I get my dogs from registered breeders and that is why I am getting a show dog. I've had insanely good fortune with the breeders I have chosen.

But for newbies entering the dog world, some breeders can be unfriendly, and some exhibitors can be unhelpful. Sorry, I should have said some in my previous posts. My bad.

[Aziah]

Aziah, Spotty is buying a dog from my next litter so I know she doesn't entirely disagree. However I have been witness to some horrible treatment to newbies and general public at shows over the years. Yes, there are members who really do go out of their way to help but it only takes one rotten egg to ruin it for everyone.

I know but I'm just trying to point out to people that just because a few people may have had a bad experience at a show with exhibitors not wanting to talk or being rude doesn't make us ALL that way

It's tough reading stuff like that when I go out of my way to help people when I can and give them the info that they require...

But you still need to think of it from a newby point of view too. While YOU might be willing to help, what happens to the person who just rocks up to a show and starts wandering around. They walk close to a dog and go to put their hand out and get snapped at, "Don't touch! We're about to go in the ring." and handler turns back to talk to whoever they were talking to before they were interrupted.

So they walk up to a dog in a crate and they get snapped at, "Don't touch! The dog is protective of his crate." And the owner eyeballs them until they walk away.

I have seen this happen so many times and I know that the exhibitors aren't at fault because they ARE doing the right thing for their dogs but the public also aren't at fault because they know no better and they are usually so put off from asking question after that so they no longer bother.

It's intimidating being a person who has to try and initiate conversation with people when everyone else seems so familiar with each other.

I KNOW that most people are willing to help as long as they aren't about to go into the ring but owners/breeders also need to look approachable or else the public will just walk past them and feel ignored. Yes, it takes two to tango and the public do need to put themselves out there and ask question because breeders aren't mind readers, I'm just pointing out how hard it can be for some.

I honestly do see where you're coming from but surely asking before petting comes into place in both scenarios, that's something most people know?

I think it's a great idea to encourage new people and those who want to research a particular breed, I think I'll print off some pamphlets to keep in my grooming box...if I'm not available to talk at the point someone comes to see me I can give them that and ask them to look and return when I'm done preparing or done in the ring

There will always be a minority who don't welcome the GP or are rude but the majority can just push that bit harder to make them feel welcome :cool:

[Aziah]

That's not all you said you said At the moment the scene is very uninviting and But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting and breeders don't return their emails and they aren't helpful on the phone

That's not speaking highly of dog shows or exhibitors/breeders is it now???

I like showies, and I like breeders. That is why I get my dogs from registered breeders and that is why I am getting a show dog. I've had insanely good fortune with the breeders I have chosen.

But for newbies entering the dog world, some breeders can be unfriendly, and some exhibitors can be unhelpful. Sorry, I should have said some in my previous posts. My bad.

I understand Spotty and I'm glad you're going to enter the show world with your next baby

ETA: I see you're in Sydney - I look forward to meeting you some time and hope to make the experience all good!

Edited April 30, 2010 by Aziah

[Spot.]

That's not all you said you said At the moment the scene is very uninviting and But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting and breeders don't return their emails and they aren't helpful on the phone

That's not speaking highly of dog shows or exhibitors/breeders is it now???

I like showies, and I like breeders. That is why I get my dogs from registered breeders and that is why I am getting a show dog. I've had insanely good fortune with the breeders I have chosen.

But for newbies entering the dog world, some breeders can be unfriendly, and some exhibitors can be unhelpful. Sorry, I should have said some in my previous posts. My bad.

I understand Spotty and I'm glad you're going to enter the show world with your next baby :cool:

I will be armed with pamphlets, so watch out

ETA: If you are getting a pup from Ashanali's next litter and are showing him/her then I will definitely see you around.

Edited April 30, 2010 by spotty