What Does This Mean?

[Bindii]

This thread is actually freaking me out a lot. As most of you will have gathered, I have an "oodle" (toy poodle x maltese) bought via the internet from a "backyard breeder" I guess you'd say. He is the first dog I've ever had, I actually did quite a lot of research, based on my anectodotal knowledge of the "Moodle", understanding this was not a purebreed, but not knowing anything about purebred dogs, and having the impression of pure poodles as overly delicate, prissy, overly groomed difficult dogs.

I know now that the Poodle qualities of my poodle x dog are the things I love best. However, there are many things I love about him and I don't know what my next dog will be.

From reading this thread, had I enquired with many poodle breeders, or now with more knowledge about what I actually wanted in a dog, havanese, bichon frise, lagotto, lowchen etc...I would have been dismissed as a time waster! I rent my house, though I have permission for pets, I have no landline, I've never had a dog before, I work full time - but I have put huge effort into understanding my dog, priortising my puppy's needs, providing him the right environment, training, discipline, activity and fun. And he is a clever, confident, lovely dog.

My point is - if you want to make purebred dog ownership the ideal for the general public you have to accept the enquiries from the general public. Many of the members of the public (including me) will be ignorant. However, it's a fact that if the demands of the market at large are not met by purebred breeders, you have to accept that people will go to other sources, such as chain pet stores and bybs! And from the sound of this thread, I may not ever get a purebreed. I want another dog so what do I do?

I hear ya!

Hugo was my first dog (apart from family pets as a kid) and i was renting when i first bought him, had no landline and worked full time. I was this close to buying a pug x cav because... I just didn't know! At the last minute a friend talked me out of it and I found an 'unknown' registered breeder who proved to be pretty useless.

I also shouldn't have owned a dog

[Wazzat Xolo]

Those words are an attempt of power. They are rude and unnecessary reeking of small Willy Syndrome. As if a 'time waster' would identify that they are just that anyway? Probably stops decent people with decent questions from ringing, ultimately turning to a pet shop. They wont feel judged for asking the wrong questions there.

If registered breeders dont have the time for people, why bother? Maybe they should put a key selection criteria on their website as well to make prospective buyers even more intimidated.

Bring back people skills.

Oh Chewwy thank you as I definately have a small willy very small in deed!

;)

I do know what you mean though!

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

when i was looking for my dog, a Boston Terrier i called just about every breeder in aus and NZ because they are very hard to come by.

i had never owned this breed before but had researched them and thought our temperments would be a good fit...and they are!!

i think the first breeder i called got all the dumb questions but by the time i got to the last one the questions were not so dumb. the reason, because some very kind and patient breeders spent hours on the phone with me. i was so impressed and boy did they show me what good customer service was.

not only did they educate me, they told me which breeders they thought might have litters coming up, gave me their phone numbers and helped me in many ways even though they were not going to make a sale because they had no puppies.

i will be forever grateful to them for this help because through patience, perseverance and their help i got my puppy.

i think it depends what you are trying to do as to whether it is time wasting or not.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[cannibalgoldfish]

5. People who want a dog in a few months/year's time.

Er... I see quite a few people on this site inquiring about certain breeds and saying upfront that they are just researching for their next. Or people asking about getting a dog and stating openly that it will be in the next few months/year.

There also seems to be quite a lot of people suggestion that new owners research their breeds more and contact a few breeders and establish a relationship with them long before they get a pup.... (especially with breeds with a waiting list)

Im not trying to make an argument at all, just point out that sometimes people do ask a lot of questions of a breeder and sometimes they dont buy...

[twodoggies2001]

I am on the other side of the spectrum. What about breeders being time wasters. Our family had waited for a pup, ready to be picked up and 3 days before I got a call from the breeder to advise that the pup had an undershot bite. I ask, why wasn't I advised earlier. I contacted my vet on later learning that the entire litter had the same problem and she advised us to steer clear of this pup. I call that time wasting too.

[Wazzat Xolo]

5. People who want a dog in a few months/year's time.

Er... I see quite a few people on this site inquiring about certain breeds and saying upfront that they are just researching for their next. Or people asking about getting a dog and stating openly that it will be in the next few months/year.

There also seems to be quite a lot of people suggestion that new owners research their breeds more and contact a few breeders and establish a relationship with them long before they get a pup.... (especially with breeds with a waiting list)

Im not trying to make an argument at all, just point out that sometimes people do ask a lot of questions of a breeder and sometimes they dont buy...

I emailed my breeder over a 12 month period re puppies, ( I then had to wait many months for a suitable puppy) I was very lucky as so many breeders I emailed couldnt even be bothered answering emails, in the end I was fortunate as I obtained the best of the breed from a long time established breeder who had a very long wait list. I had paid no money until eight weeks before the dogs arrived here and owned the breeder over $3000 in associated fees when the did arrive, she just trusted me to pay. All this was done via email NOT ONE phone call, thats absolute trust from a very well respected and professional breeder, I am not sure I could be so trusting of someone on the other side of the world.

Breeders you get the good, the bad, the reputable and the best ever that you just click with!

Edited April 29, 2010 by Wazzat Xolo

[conztruct]

I might be wrong so please correct me if I am but I think that the context in which some of the breeders on here are describing time-wasters is when they have a litter of puppies advertised and somebody contacts them saying they are interested and then gives them the line about "no room", "haven't discussed with OH", etc etc.

I don't think they're referring to a situation where somebody calls them and explains that they aren't currently in a position to buy but would like some information about the breed etc....right?

I think there's a big difference between using a perceived interest in buying as a means to obtain informations, pics, prices, etc rather than just being honest and saying you're researching. I haven't met many breeders who have a problem providing information if it is requested in the right way. There's two different situations and I think the time-wasting refers to the former which is, let's face it, a bit deceptive.

That's just my experience and I know there's all types out there so every experience isn't always going to be positive or that straight forward.

[FranVT]

I might be wrong so please correct me if I am but I think that the context in which some of the breeders on here are describing time-wasters is when they have a litter of puppies advertised and somebody contacts them saying they are interested and then gives them the line about "no room", "haven't discussed with OH", etc etc.

I don't think they're referring to a situation where somebody calls them and explains that they aren't currently in a position to buy but would like some information about the breed etc....right?

I think there's a big difference between using a perceived interest in buying as a means to obtain informations, pics, prices, etc rather than just being honest and saying you're researching. I haven't met many breeders who have a problem providing information if it is requested in the right way. There's two different situations and I think the time-wasting refers to the former which is, let's face it, a bit deceptive.

That's just my experience and I know there's all types out there so every experience isn't always going to be positive or that straight forward.

Agree. I think if one phoned a breeder and said "I'm not ready to buy right now, I'm just doing my research at the moment to make sure this is the breed for me and how much upkeep/money/grooming/exercise I'm up for and who better to ask than a breeder?" then that is actually a really good thing and surely any breeder would see that too? Someone who actually gives a cr*p about their ability to look after a dog is better than someone who goes 'OMG LOOK AT DAT KOOT PUPPY KWIK GET ON DA FONE I WANT 1 NOW!' etc. Especially if that person then goes on to not buy anyway, or worse yet, RETURN the puppy because it doesn't suit their lifestyle. Not that I think any ethical breeder would ever get as far as knowingly giving a puppy to someone when it didn't suit their lifestyle. A good, knowledgeable, friendly, approachable breeder has been such a blessing to me in both my purebred dog experiences (as an adult) in fact I talk to Luuka's breeder still every week or so and send her pics all the time.

[poodlefan]

Maybe I need to do the reverse of my previous post:

IMO you are NOT a time waster if:

* You contact a breeder having done a bit of research and want to know more about the breed.

* You contact a breeder and tell them you're not in the market for a pup from their current litter but would like to know if they have any more litters coming up.

* You contact a breeder saying you and your family would like to meet some of the breed in person and to talk to someone knowledgeable about what they are like to live with.

As a DOLer, if I'm in a position to connect a potential buyer that's got some sense with a reputable breeder, I fall all over myself to assist that connection. Personally, I'd suggest any member here who's a potential puppy buyer ask questions in the Breeds 101 threads and seek contacts in the breed social threads off General.

I have had the unpleasant experience of recommending a breeder who has great dogs but was rude to a pet enquirer. That breeder is no longer on my 'recommended' list.

[Shmurps]

Yes it does cut both ways.

But you have to remember as well that there are going to be first time puppy buyers. There will be some with no clues and they will be of the mind set of a pet shop purchase.

So if we want to guide people away from purchasing from a pet shop, where will they go if they are seen as time wasters.

[poodlefan]

Yes it does cut both ways.

But you have to remember as well that there are going to be first time puppy buyers. There will be some with no clues and they will be of the mind set of a pet shop purchase.

So if we want to guide people away from purchasing from a pet shop, where will they go if they are seen as time wasters.

The views expressed here by breeders suggest if you really want a pup, you're not wasting their time. Many breeders know who else in the breed has litters due and do refer on if they dont' have what a buyer wants.

[Spot.]

I have had the unpleasant experience of recommending a breeder who has great dogs but was rude to a pet enquirer. That breeder is no longer on my 'recommended' list. ;)

This is the exact reason why I no longer strongly recommend to my friends or family to get a dog or puppy from a registered breeder. Many times they get no response to their well constructed email, or they call and the breeder is rude.

I don't even know why people suggest going and chatting to breeders/exhibitors at shows because that rarely has a positive outcome either That is not one inviting scene for general members of the public....

Some breeders really need to improve the way they deal with people.

Edited April 29, 2010 by spotty

[Greytmate]

Those words are an attempt of power. They are rude and unnecessary reeking of small Willy Syndrome. As if a 'time waster' would identify that they are just that anyway? Probably stops decent people with decent questions from ringing, ultimately turning to a pet shop. They wont feel judged for asking the wrong questions there.

If registered breeders dont have the time for people, why bother? Maybe they should put a key selection criteria on their website as well to make prospective buyers even more intimidated.

Bring back people skills.

I agree with this.

"No Time Wasters" is boganspeak for "I really have no idea how to properly and efficiently qualify a potential puppy buyer, and I take no responsibility for lacking those skills."

Doesn't mean that their dogs are not worth buying though. They may be a great dog breeder.

[Wazzat Xolo]

I have had the unpleasant experience of recommending a breeder who has great dogs but was rude to a pet enquirer. That breeder is no longer on my 'recommended' list. ;)

This is the exact reason why I no longer strongly recommend to my friends or family to get a dog or puppy from a registered breeder. Many times they get no response to their well constructed email, or they call and the breeder is rude.

I don't even know why people suggest going and chatting to breeders/exhibitors at shows because that rarely has a positive outcome either That is not one inviting scene for general members of the public....

Some breeders really need to improve the way they deal with people.

Very true Spotty, I guess they are busy with the show side, I for one will use a show as a little diff as I dont have the competition side and would much rather chat to people about the breed than the competitive side, but I understand how some people are very busy at shows ( of course no excuse for rudeness)

I think Australia should have more Breed days where members of the public can chat to and see breeds they may be interested in, when I approached my local club they were not interested at all, I travel all over to promote my breed and I am sure when I start their showing I will miss the shows as Ill be too busy chatting! ( Why I will have a handler0

Do other states have a purely Promote the breed day? I am in WA

;)

[Aziah]

I have had the unpleasant experience of recommending a breeder who has great dogs but was rude to a pet enquirer. That breeder is no longer on my 'recommended' list. ;)

This is the exact reason why I no longer strongly recommend to my friends or family to get a dog or puppy from a registered breeder. Many times they get no response to their well constructed email, or they call and the breeder is rude.

I don't even know why people suggest going and chatting to breeders/exhibitors at shows because that rarely has a positive outcome either ;) That is not one inviting scene for general members of the public....

Some breeders really need to improve the way they deal with people.

How sad why bother being a member here then?

The dog show scene can be/is inviting and welcoming to the general public providing they remember that exhibitors are there to show their dogs and a lot of prep etc is involved so often there are only short periods of time where an exhibitor has the time to just sit around and chat!

Edited April 29, 2010 by Aziah

[Spot.]

I have had the unpleasant experience of recommending a breeder who has great dogs but was rude to a pet enquirer. That breeder is no longer on my 'recommended' list. ;)

This is the exact reason why I no longer strongly recommend to my friends or family to get a dog or puppy from a registered breeder. Many times they get no response to their well constructed email, or they call and the breeder is rude.

I don't even know why people suggest going and chatting to breeders/exhibitors at shows because that rarely has a positive outcome either That is not one inviting scene for general members of the public....

Some breeders really need to improve the way they deal with people.

Very true Spotty, I guess they are busy with the show side, I for one will use a show as a little diff as I dont have the competition side and would much rather chat to people about the breed than the competitive side, but I understand how some people are very busy at shows ( of course no excuse for rudeness)

I think Australia should have more Breed days where members of the public can chat to and see breeds they may be interested in, when I approached my local club they were not interested at all, I travel all over to promote my breed and I am sure when I start their showing I will miss the shows as Ill be too busy chatting! ( Why I will have a handler0

Do other states have a purely Promote the breed day? I am in WA

;)

I think at shows it would be a good idea to have a stall where there are pamphlets about each breed, cards with breeder info etc. Make it more public friendly.

At the moment the scene is very uninviting. Exhibitors sit around in a big circle chatting. There is no way I would approach them. I know people are there to exhibit their dogs, but surely they could be a little more inviting?

I love purebreds just as much as most people on this forum do and I want to see them still going strong in the years to come. But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting. It is really that simple.

P.S. send me a xolo. kthxbi.

[Wazzat Xolo]

I have had the unpleasant experience of recommending a breeder who has great dogs but was rude to a pet enquirer. That breeder is no longer on my 'recommended' list. ;)

This is the exact reason why I no longer strongly recommend to my friends or family to get a dog or puppy from a registered breeder. Many times they get no response to their well constructed email, or they call and the breeder is rude.

I don't even know why people suggest going and chatting to breeders/exhibitors at shows because that rarely has a positive outcome either That is not one inviting scene for general members of the public....

Some breeders really need to improve the way they deal with people.

Very true Spotty, I guess they are busy with the show side, I for one will use a show as a little diff as I dont have the competition side and would much rather chat to people about the breed than the competitive side, but I understand how some people are very busy at shows ( of course no excuse for rudeness)

I think Australia should have more Breed days where members of the public can chat to and see breeds they may be interested in, when I approached my local club they were not interested at all, I travel all over to promote my breed and I am sure when I start their showing I will miss the shows as Ill be too busy chatting! ( Why I will have a handler0

Do other states have a purely Promote the breed day? I am in WA

;)

I think at shows it would be a good idea to have a stall where there are pamphlets about each breed, cards with breeder info etc. Make it more public friendly.

At the moment the scene is very uninviting. Exhibitors sit around in a big circle chatting. There is no way I would approach them. I know people are there to exhibit their dogs, but surely they could be a little more inviting?

I love purebreds just as much as most people on this forum do and I want to see them still going strong in the years to come. But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting. It is really that simple.

P.S. send me a xolo. kthxbi.

How about some breed info!! lol

[Aziah]

I think at shows it would be a good idea to have a stall where there are pamphlets about each breed, cards with breeder info etc. Make it more public friendly.

At the moment the scene is very uninviting. Exhibitors sit around in a big circle chatting. There is no way I would approach them. I know people are there to exhibit their dogs, but surely they could be a little more inviting?

I love purebreds just as much as most people on this forum do and I want to see them still going strong in the years to come. But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting. It is really that simple.

P.S. send me a xolo. kthxbi.

The scene is very uninviting? YOU wouldn't approach (that's a choice YOU have made)!

Dog shows are there for exhibitors to exhibit their dogs (you get that part as stated above in your post), I have no problem with the public coming to shows and I have no problem taking the time to talk to people enquiring about the breed provided they realise that time is often limited.

I'm not going to want to sit down and have a decent chat to someone when I'm in the middle of a conversation with other exhibitors or when I'm busy preparing dogs.

If people are going to visit the dog shows, please approach a breeder of the breed you're interested in and simply ask them when a good time would be for you to return to talk to them meet their dogs etc.

Spotty - you're making dog shows out to be something they are not, basically rubbishing them and inturn those people who exhibit...you'll win no friends here

Edited April 29, 2010 by Aziah

[Spot.]

I have had the unpleasant experience of recommending a breeder who has great dogs but was rude to a pet enquirer. That breeder is no longer on my 'recommended' list. ;)

This is the exact reason why I no longer strongly recommend to my friends or family to get a dog or puppy from a registered breeder. Many times they get no response to their well constructed email, or they call and the breeder is rude.

I don't even know why people suggest going and chatting to breeders/exhibitors at shows because that rarely has a positive outcome either ;) That is not one inviting scene for general members of the public....

Some breeders really need to improve the way they deal with people.

How sad why bother being a member here then?

The dog show scene can be/is inviting and welcoming to the general public providing they remember that exhibitors are there to show their dogs and a lot of prep etc is involved so often there are only short periods of time where an exhibitor has the time to just sit around and chat!

When my friends say I want a puppy I tell them to go to a registered breeder and I tell them why. But I don't sit there and give them a 10 minute presentation like I used because breeders don't return their emails and they aren't helpful on the phone. So no, I don't STRONGLY RECOMMEND going to one because I can't be bothered anymore as it seems futile.

Why tell them to go to a show to chat to breeders when there is a very high chance breeders won't even speak to them?????

[Greytmate]

I think at shows it would be a good idea to have a stall where there are pamphlets about each breed, cards with breeder info etc. Make it more public friendly.

At the moment the scene is very uninviting. Exhibitors sit around in a big circle chatting. There is no way I would approach them. I know people are there to exhibit their dogs, but surely they could be a little more inviting?

I love purebreds just as much as most people on this forum do and I want to see them still going strong in the years to come. But IMO showies and breeders need to be more friendly and inviting. It is really that simple.

It is the set up and organisation of the dog show that would need to change. Not the behaviour of the exhibitors.

People act how they act. You can't change how the public act or how exhibitors act. You can however organise an event that provides an easy way for the public to interact and get the information they need. At present, most dogs shows are not being organised in that way at all. Until clubs start to organise their events with the public in mind, dog shows will not be an inviting place for the public, as they cater only to the exhibitor. It would take more effort and resources and clubs have to decide make the effort if they want to increase the population or the popularity of their breed.