Yet Another What Breed Thread...

[RallyValley]

If you're prepared to brush and groom, want a snuggly clingy dog and a smart dog who responds well to training, and are active, i'd think you can't go past a Border Collie, and I think they fit in your size requirements too.

There is no way I would recommend a breed with herding instinct to someone with kids that young, my old border used to herd kids and my kelpie cross tries to herd kids. Plus both breeds can get mouthy.

I think since the OP has had issues with a larger very active breed and kids a smaller and calmer breed would suit. In agility Cavaliers,Papillons and Poodles do extremely well, from other peoples recoomendations they seem to be popular for people with young kids.

Edited April 26, 2010 by valleyCBR

[Havasneeze]

Have you thought about a Schipperke? They are good watch dogs and need virtually no grooming. Good watch dogs and with children. Also good for agility and obedience.

[Cosmolo]

I think you'd do well to consider border terriers, australian terriers and jack russell terriers- any of these from a great breeder with the right training and socialisation would do well and they are all intelligent and good to train. They're not without their challenges from a training point of view but get it right and they learn very fast, retain information well and love it at the same time!

[aussielover]

golden retriever , lab or brittany. Maybe boxer.

I don't really think a lab, golden or boxer could be considered small-medium. There are some smaller labs and goldens out there but they would be medium-large dogs imo.

A brittany is a good suggestion though. I also don't think a border collie would be that suitable as they can't really last on 30 mins of exercise a day.

Edited April 27, 2010 by aussielover

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Of the dogs on your list,

In the masters agility and the utility dog, there were shelties doing very well.

In short jump agility there were also minature poodles, minature schnauzers, cocker spaniel, jack russells, and a corgi x kelpie. But the ones doing the best and looking like they were having the most fun were the shelties.

the poodle did most of what the owner asked and then a few other jumps not part of the course as well.

Of course the smarter the dog you get, the more you have to work to keep its mind occupied, or it will find ways of occupying itself that you might not enjoy.

PS this website does a good match you to a dog breed quiz - it is USA based so a standalone house rates as "big".

http://dogtime.com/matchup/question/1

Edited April 27, 2010 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[NZVizsla]

I'll echo Monah and Poodlefan's thoughts..

Poodle!

A Min has the potential to be a great match for your family.

Otherwise a Cavalier King Charles. Lovely little dogs!

[poodlefan]

I'll echo Monah and Poodlefan's thoughts..

Poodle!

A Min has the potential to be a great match for your family.

Otherwise a Cavalier King Charles. Lovely little dogs!

Darcy says hello to his friend across the Tasman!!

[Verdant Amphibian]

Thanks for all the input

There are far too many wonderful breeds. Problem is I love all dogs so it makes it hard to cross dogs off a list.

Border Collies are lovely but I would be worried that if something happened and the girls were sick I wouldn't be able to keep up with the exercise requirements because our yard is so small. That and unfortunately my parents are some of those annoying people who think ACD, kelpies and border collies should only be used for work so if I had any trouble I doubt I could stand the "I told you so's".

GR are beautiful but I don't want a big dog yet, it would probably be fine but I worry now. Better to wait a few years I think.

Cav's are gorgeous but I didn't think they were as good at obedience as paps and poodles?

Japanese Spitz and Schipperke might be a little too independent for me.

Finnish Lapphund I'd never even thought of them, I have to meet one they sound amazing and tummy-does-a-little-flipflop type beautiful.

Of the terriers I like Aussies the most, although I have a soft spot for parson russell terriers since we had one growing up and she decided she was mine (course she was horrible with other dogs and suffered from selective deafness but I loved her).

So at the moment the list of breeds I must meet looks like this.

There are others that tick all the boxes but I think these are the breeds that most interest me. We'll have to go to some shows.

Shetland Sheepdogs

Miniature Poodles (There's a gorgeous one I meet and pet nearly every time I go to the farmers market, very friendly and Ava gets to pet it too)

Finnish Lapphund

Aussie Terriers (I know some of these though so don't need to meet them)

[Loving my Oldies]

Shetland Sheepdogs

Miniature Poodles (There's a gorgeous one I meet and pet nearly every time I go to the farmers market, very friendly and Ava gets to pet it too)

Finnish Lapphund

Aussie Terriers (I know some of these though so don't need to meet them)

Well, I'm glad that's sorted. You get one each of the above, one for every member of the family.

[mumof3]

golden retriever , lab or brittany. Maybe boxer.

I don't really think a lab, golden or boxer could be considered small-medium. There are some smaller labs and goldens out there but they would be medium-large dogs imo.

A brittany is a good suggestion though. I also don't think a border collie would be that suitable as they can't really last on 30 mins of exercise a day.

I know, they are not really small - medium sized. Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that small breeds are better with small kids. I think gentle nature is more important than size - but that's just me. I'd have a golden around my baby in a flash (depending upon the dog). They have a gentle mouth, and are intelligent and aware of their bodies. They are highly rated as being one of the best breeds for young kids. I'd sooner the nice big gentle dog any day. I don't much like little dogs, it having been my personal experience that they tend to be a little more jumpy, scratchy and even mouthy and can quickly bowl kids over by running near or under them.

It is probably wrong of me to push my own preference onto the OP. She did make it quite clear that she wanted a smal to medium dog, so I apologise.

[poodlefan]

golden retriever , lab or brittany. Maybe boxer.

I don't really think a lab, golden or boxer could be considered small-medium. There are some smaller labs and goldens out there but they would be medium-large dogs imo.

A brittany is a good suggestion though. I also don't think a border collie would be that suitable as they can't really last on 30 mins of exercise a day.

I know, they are not really small - medium sized. Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that small breeds are better with small kids. I think gentle nature is more important than size - but that's just me. I'd have a golden around my baby in a flash (depending upon the dog). They have a gentle mouth, and are intelligent and aware of their bodies. They are highly rated as being one of the best breeds for young kids. I'd sooner the nice big gentle dog any day. I don't much like little dogs, it having been my personal experience that they tend to be a little more jumpy, scratchy and even mouthy and can quickly bowl kids over by running near or under them.

It is probably wrong of me to push my own preference onto the OP. She did make it quite clear that she wanted a smal to medium dog, so I apologise.

I don't think anyone else automatically does either.

Jumping, scratching and mouthing are all undesireable behaviours that need to be trained out. Any size dog can exhibit them.

You'd have to go a long way to get past a well bred SBT as a kids dog. They are perfectly capable of obedience work but agility is a bit of an ask. If the OP wasn't interested in an ability dog, I'd have suggested one.

Edited April 27, 2010 by poodlefan

[mumof3]

golden retriever , lab or brittany. Maybe boxer.

I don't really think a lab, golden or boxer could be considered small-medium. There are some smaller labs and goldens out there but they would be medium-large dogs imo.

A brittany is a good suggestion though. I also don't think a border collie would be that suitable as they can't really last on 30 mins of exercise a day.

I know, they are not really small - medium sized. Personally, I don't subscribe to the theory that small breeds are better with small kids. I think gentle nature is more important than size - but that's just me. I'd have a golden around my baby in a flash (depending upon the dog). They have a gentle mouth, and are intelligent and aware of their bodies. They are highly rated as being one of the best breeds for young kids. I'd sooner the nice big gentle dog any day. I don't much like little dogs, it having been my personal experience that they tend to be a little more jumpy, scratchy and even mouthy and can quickly bowl kids over by running near or under them.

It is probably wrong of me to push my own preference onto the OP. She did make it quite clear that she wanted a smal to medium dog, so I apologise.

I don't think anyone else does either.

Jumping, scratching and mouthing are all undesireable behaviours that need to be trained out. Any size dog can exhibit them.

You are of course right. I've probably mostly only known small dog owners who have not done this training with their dogs. Compared to large dog owners that I have known, who have done this training. I think perhaps many smally dog owners who don't have small kids kind of think it is cute when their small dog acts a litte feral - so pretty much all of the small dogs I've ever met haven't had any manners. Most of the large dog's I've known have been either hunting dogs or working dogs or golden retrievers and for one reason or another these dogs haven't jumped up or mouthed etc. Perhaps small dogs jump up more because they get a pat that way, whereas the large dog just has to stick his nose in your crotch

[Sandra777]

You'd have to go a long way to get past a well bred SBT as a kids dog. They are perfectly capable of obedience work but agility is a bit of an ask. If the OP wasn't interested in an ability dog, I'd have suggested one.

See I would look at this totally the other way around - IME Staffords are much better at agility than formal obedience.

OP wants a dog which is going to be OK meeting random strange dogs which would make a SBT unsuitable IMO.

[Angelina]

What are Tibetan Terriers like to train? They're not that high on coren's intelligence scale. I know that's only obedience intelligence but I would like to do obedience.

Is it hard to find miniature poodle breeders that aim more towards energetic family dog than lapdog? Also are they dominant? Most of the toy poodles I know have been (but I think they were from a byb) and none of them were treated like dogs. The same family vs lapdog question applies in regards to papillons as their seems to be a huge range in the size of papillons.

Your shelties sound wonderful.

There are so many lovely breeds, how do you pick when multiple ones tick all the boxes?

I have a tibetan terrier, and he is the most beautiful boy

He is really good with the obedience training, but can be stubborn sometimes.

Great with kids, I find his coat easier than my shitzu, although he is groomed regularly.

The only problem, he just goes beserk with cats. I don't know if this is a breed thing, or just a Raymond thing .....

good luck with whatever you decide. Here is a pikkie of him watching State of Origin last year

[poodlefan]

You'd have to go a long way to get past a well bred SBT as a kids dog. They are perfectly capable of obedience work but agility is a bit of an ask. If the OP wasn't interested in an ability dog, I'd have suggested one.

See I would look at this totally the other way around - IME Staffords are much better at agility than formal obedience.

OP wants a dog which is going to be OK meeting random strange dogs which would make a SBT unsuitable IMO.

Sadly. We have an OC Stafford at our club. I've seen the width of the dog walk defeat a few and for a dog the same height as a Mini P, they're hefting 3 times the weight over each jump. It's doable but not as easily as for a lighter dog.

Edited April 27, 2010 by poodlefan

[Kavik]

My suggestions from your list are

Cocker Spaniel

Miniature Poodle

Both require plenty of grooming though. Both do very well at obedience and agility, good with kids if raised correctly, generally good with other dogs, will alert bark if someone is at the door.

Miniature Schnauzers I also quite like, bit more spunky IMO (which I like). Depends on whether you like beards and maybe not as instantly dog friendly as cockers and poodles.

[Hello Gorgeous]

Poodles are really intelligent (I think second to Border Collies or something?) and are generally very pleasant dogs to have. They're not all yappy, but you might get a barker! However if you're after something which can be more of a guard dog, I'd really recommend a Cocker Spaniel because they're extremely loyal, pretty low maintainence (you'd have to watch out for the ears though and will require at least a brushing) and are great with children, especially if they grow up together.

I've been doing some research on Papillons but decided they weren't the breed for me because they are quite energetic, and the problem with small dogs is they require a lot of training and obedience, else they'd develop what I call "small dog syndrome" like my friend's Chihuahua who seems to attack every single big dog it sees! You'd have to invest a lot of time in socializing and training (as with any dog, I suppose).

Edited April 27, 2010 by Hello Gorgeous

[pie]

I wouldn't have thought a Finnish Lapphund would be classed as 'clingy' ? ;)

Manchester Terriers do tick most of your boxes, most I know are confident with other dogs although mine takes a little bit to warm up and doesn't like to be chased. Once she is warmed up though she likes to rough it with the big kids.

She is very clingy and would climb into my skin if she could!

They are fine with cats if raised with them. Mine loves kids but she is very bouncy and a bit mouthy. They have very short hair and are easy to maintain, smallish (around the 10kg mark). If you go out bush where there are rabbits etc running around they probably wouldn't be great because they have a fair bit of prey drive.

If you were interested in them I would strongly recommend meeting some first hand and doing some research to get one with good nerves. Make sure the breeder is experienced and try and meet both parents if you can. Much like I'd recommend for any dog really!

I also like Cosmolo's suggestion of a JRT, I never used to like them but I have never met one that was from a Registered Breeder that I didn't like, great little busy happy dogs. All the ones at my agility club are great with other dogs and people. One of those great breeds that have been given a bad reputation because of poor breeding from BYBs and Puppy Farmers.

[Verdant Amphibian]

good luck with whatever you decide. Here is a pikkie of him watching State of Origin last year

That is ridiculously cute.

I'm probably unfairly dismissing GR. A mature adult would likely be wonderful and a puppy would probably be fine (I just worry about the bouncy adolescent period but that would probably be fine if they'd been with the girls from the start). In part I think I'm rebelling against the notion that a golden retriever or lab is the only dog for someone with children. I am in no way talking about the DOL community but my rl peers. I know too many people that as soon as you mention you have kids immediately insist you should get a golden retriever. These are people who don't have dogs, have done no research, have no concept of how much exercise they might need or health testing and most of them as soon as their kids get to a certain age will buy some poor golden retriever or lab from the classifieds (because every kid should have a dog that lives outside in a kennel) then wonder why it digs up the garden. It's silly but I feel like if I get one, put all the hard work in and end up with a wonderful dog, I would just be furthering the misconception that GR and labs are automatically perfect for all families. I agree that this could well be described as cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Yeah I'm too worried about possible dog aggressiveness with a SBT. It would be a shame to get a dog that couldn't enjoy the family trips.

We had a rescue JRT named Midget when I was growing up and also a GRTxMiniature Foxie both where a bit nutty. Which has probably put me off them a little since every JRT or mini-foxie I've met has been that was but realistically they would have been from byb. I don't think I've ever really met a JRT from a good breeder. But our parson who was from a good breeder was wonderful, she wasn't nervous and she didn't have any weird OCD type behaviors, she was too good a hunter though we had to keep her inside when the baby birds were learning to fly every year.

[corvus]

Finnish Lapphund IME are super social, but not especially clingy. My boy likes to come and glue his shoulder to my leg when we are walking, but he's got a stronger independent streak than my Vallhund. My Vallhund is very family-centric. He likes to be with his pack. The Lappie just loves everyone. Although there's nothing like cuddling a Lapphund. ;) We had to work a bit harder with him to convince him of the benefits of staying close to his people when off leash. The Vallhund never had to learn that. Mind you, our Lapphund is like the perfect family dog. He is pretty special.

Actually, maybe Swedish Vallhunds would be good. They are a bit like corgis, but taller and not as long in the body. They have wolf colouring and are quite strong, outgoing little dogs. A man can walk a Vallhund without being embarassed. It's been suggested he's like a sawn-off German Shepherd. Very smart, very easy to train, total ridiculous cuddle monster, and surprisingly fast and agile. He thinks he's a big dog. He would take as much exercise as you care to throw at him, but can miss a day or two without going mental. He is very fun and addictive to train. He just does nothing by halves. He has been well socialised and is quite friendly to other dogs people, but he loves his own family best.

I met a Tibetan Terrier a while ago. Quite a lot like Erik our Vallhund, actually. She was a super fun dog. I want one!