Another Rspca Cock Up!

[WoofnHoof]

Would a horse pass a vet inspection anyway if moving it was so risky? What if there was a fire or flood and the horse had to be moved? What if the carer hadn't decided to adopt her and she had to be moved to a new home?

[casowner]

Maybe it is the RSPCA's protocol, maybe there were ongoing issues with the horse that they wanted to monitor - I really don't know. If the horse was a windsucker and they had been told this was no longer an issue maybe they wanted to monitor that the horse was not doing it anymore before the adoption process started. If a dog had behavioural issues that had a constant affect on it's health and the foster carer told the rescue org that it was cured would you take the carers word for it or would the rescue org want to make sure that the issue was resolved?

I believe that the horse was obviously unwell and several vets made the difficult decision to euthanase in the horses best interest, I also believe the foster carer was made aware of that possibilty before it happened and agreed to abide by their decision regarding the outcome, the horse was disposed of in a manner that is apparently acceptable in that area. I do not know the situation before or during the horses stay at the foster carers or anything up to the point of the day of euthanasia. I also know the RSPCA has admitted errors regarding customer service. Would any of these issue have made the outcome any different I really don't know, could it have been handled better by all involved - clearly.

My heart breaks for the horse and no doubt the foster carer was shattered but it seems that she was kept informed on the day that Brandy was put down, is this any comfort probably not and I making excuses for or supporting the RSPCA - no.

Edited April 29, 2010 by casowner

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

my interest in this is process and transparency of organisations. i see many organisations that lose the hearts and minds of the public because either their processes are poor and/or there is no transparency in what they do. it appears that this is the case with the rspca.

they do have the responsibility to have clear understandable processes and to be transparent in all they do because they ask and get money from the public and therfore should be under a lot of scrutiny.

it seems to me that the rspca, given the email we have seen from their media guy, belittles any critisism or scrutiny and that is what causes me to be concerned. if there is no problems with what they are doing then they wouldn't care who weas asking questions becsue they would have nothing to hide.

not only that but if their processes were clear and there was transparency there would be very few questions left for them to answer.

with people having less to give to charities the rspca would do well to think about all their stakeholders

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jaxx'sBuddy

[KatrinaM]

As for a vets advice to euth a horse.....

In 2006 I was away at a dog trial, I had little mobile reception. My husband (a non horse person) had found the kids pony ill after a wind storm knocked the side out of the she and chook pen and he had consumed 10 - 15kg of mixed grain. As I had 18 hours driving to get home I suggested he ring the vet and get her assistance. I rang back an hour later to find the kids hysterical and my husband digging a hole with the backhoe waiting for the pony to be put down. According to her horses dont survive colic like that (he was still mobile although in considerable pain at this stage) needless to say I contacted local horse people, who treated him. He fully recovered from the colic and the founder he developed as a result of eating that much grain.

Not bagging them, I would be lost without them but sometimes Vets dont always know best. They are only human and sometimes make calls due to politics and outside pressures and sometimes just get it wrong.

[casowner]

In this case we are talking about several vets including a specialist equine vet at CSU, not just one vet. Many vets misdiagnose animals and that is why I always get second opinions if the outcome is not good, but in this case there were many people that made the decision and this was clearly a reoccuring issue with this particular horse. I myself have had several animals where vets have said to euthanase and after getting different opinions it turns out that they were orginally misdiagnosed. I am very glad that your pony survived as I have said earlier I have lost 2 to colic and thankfully my new colt survived his grain gorge.

Edited April 29, 2010 by casowner

[KatrinaM]

I guess the sad part was the vet I told my husband to ring was also a specialist equine vet. My normal vet was away and I felt an expert opinion was worth the extra cost.

Not saying it is or isnt the case here but how many people want to tell an expert in the field they are wrong, even if they think it?

I didnt see Brandy myself so I have no idea if the vet was right or wrong, really all the guessing by me here wont change what has happened. I feel terrible for her carer though and the way she was treated. I also feel for all the stand up, genuine, caring people who are the grass roots of the RSPCA an organization I have come to detest, not just because of how it treats animals but also for it treatment of people.

I am glad to hear your colt survived, did he founder at all?

[casowner]

Thank you KatrinaM and no luckily he didn't founder, I caught him very early on and spent the night walking him around in the dark while he was trying to impress the mares he was only 5 months old and they weren't very interested in him but it got him moving around.

I fully understand how personal circumstances can affect how people view an organisation, I personally detest one that I worked for but keep that to myself . It is a shame though as I know several animal loving, fully dedicated people that work for the RSPCA and I know that they put their heart and soul into their work and in many cases their home.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Thank you KatrinaM and no luckily he didn't founder, I caught him very early on and spent the night walking him around in the dark while he was trying to impress the mares he was only 5 months old and they weren't very interested in him but it got him moving around.

I fully understand how personal circumstances can affect how people view an organisation, I personally detest one that I worked for but keep that to myself . It is a shame though as I know several animal loving, fully dedicated people that work for the RSPCA and I know that they put their heart and soul into their work and in many cases their home.

i agree that there are many people at the grass roots of the organisation that are doing what they can, but what we are talking about here is organisational ineptitude and a culture of arrogance within the organisation management.

[Bilbo Baggins]

At the end of the day probably this horse should have gone to god when it was first discovered.

[WoofnHoof]

At the end of the day probably this horse should have gone to god when it was first discovered.

Either that or adopted out straight away/very early on so that all decisions made regarding it's ongoing care (and the assoicated costs) were the sole responsiblity of the owner.

If anything this case has made me realise how very difficult it must be to balance the needs and responsibilities of the rescue with those of the carers, while still ensuring that the animal is both given the best possible chance for a future and not having to suffer for longer than is absolutely necessary. And we see here what can happen when the system fails.

[Jed]

I am sure the line you are referring to isn't aimed at this forum rather than other media in which this case has been mentioned, however I am sure they would equally be as appalled by some of the comments aimed at them regarding this case. I believe that the line that was bolded was aimed at non pure bred people so just because that email was quoted on this forum doesn't mean it was directly personally to any posters here.

It seems apparent that the foster carer was made aware of the horses condition on the day it was euthanased, which is something that legally they did not have to do as she belonged to the RSPCA. It seems the foster carer agreed to go by the vets decision which has not been mentioned previously and as I said earlier it made no sense that everyone would collude together out of the pure fact that they wanted to be nasty.

There seems to be more questions now that some facts have been brought to light, but again I can not see various vets plus another from James Cook University colluding together. Unfortunately to get the whole story you need full truths on all sides and as any animal issue is highly emotional the chances of everyone being totally honest is highly doubtful.

That presumes that the RSPCA spokesman is telling the truth. There is no proof that anyone was consulting, only someone's say so. There is not even any proof that any vet saw the horse. And according to the foster carer, she was not advised, so who is lying? Michael Beatty says the foster carer agreed to go by the vets decision, but she says she didn't know. There is no proof that a vet even saw the horse.

No one needs to collude - someone just needs to be lying. Just one person. Someone obviously is, question is, who?

If the RSPCA was the sainted and wonderful organisation for all creatures great and small, as they tout themselves as, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We would know they were wonderful, and we would presume the carer was a fibber.

That we are even having this discussion is interesting.

In those circumstances, the second post in this thread would have been "what a rotten carer, fancy saying that".

we believe that a number of people who have posted comments are currently being prosecuted by the RSPCA or are friends of theirs. If you live in Townsville you will probably be aware of their identities

.

There must be a hell of a lot of people in Townsville being prosecuted by the RSPCA, or they must have many many friends!!\

Fact is, someone is lying, big time. I have no idea who, and neither does anyone else.

[tarope]

There is a lot more to this than is at first apparent. For a start, we believe that a number of people who have posted comments are currently being prosecuted by the RSPCA or are friends of theirs. If you live in Townsville you will probably be aware of their identities.

<snip>

Michael Beatty

Media And Community Relations

RSPCA Queensland

So the R$PCA is going to prosecute people for having an opinion are they and speaking out

One would think the money spent on prosecuting people who voice an opinion would be better spent caring for animals . They must have plenty of money to throw around. I had to laugh when I read - Michael Beatty, Media and Community Relations ;)

[spottychick]

Again, I suggest that the comments MAY NOT HAVE BEEN DIRECTED at this particular forum.

Jaxx'sBuddy I believe that all foster animals must be returned to the RSPCA so that they can undertake their final health check, wolfgirl71's post seems to verify that.

If people do a search on the subject various comments from different areas/forums have been quite negative, maybe the comments in Wolfgirl71's email were directed there. I am sure if those of you are offended regarding those lines email RSPCA QLD direct you may get clarification regarding that, but to see a line and take it personally when in fact it probably wasn't is causes further anger for maybe no reason

It is posted in this forum as tho it's in reference to this forum. I am not "offended" by those lines because they are not credible. My point was that his comment is a ridiculous and insidious attempt to disrespect people who are criticising the RSPCA and as such makes the rest of his justification/explanation hard to accept.

However, even if it's not about people on DOL, the same response I made applies to wherever he might be referring to (except of course the bit I wrote about me personally LOL). It makes no difference which "people who have posted comments" he is talking about.

[casowner]

I believe the people they are referring to our puppy farmers, the kind of people this forum despises, the kind of people I would think we would all want prosecuted. Exactly the kind of people that would stir trouble in their area to take attention off themselves. Actually people that have had threads written about them on this forum criticising their practices

What was posted were parts of personal correspondance and I agree that perhaps the poster should have posted relevant information regarding the horse only

Edited April 29, 2010 by casowner

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

At the end of the day probably this horse should have gone to god when it was first discovered.

i suspect this may be the truth unfortunately and i know nothing about this case. sometimes i do see animals kept alive when it would have been more humane to pts. sometimes this takes a greater humanity.

[Jed]

Quote from "The Bulletin" (P1 of this thread)

On Sunday Ms McCabe was told of the animal's death by the Bulletin, after she had attempted to contact the RSPCA throughout the day.

Quote from Michael Beatty

Our Shelter operations manager kept in contact with Siobhan (Brandy’s foster carer) on Saturday when Brandy came down with a really bad case of colic. He told her that Brandy might have to be put down and Siobhan said she would abide by whatever decision the vets decided to make. The next day was his daughter’s christening and he didn’t find out that Brandy had been put down until after that when he rang her.

Quote from "The Bulletin"

''We're not going to go and pick up the horse unless she wants us to,'' Ms Shemwell said.

''I did offer that if she was having financial trouble then we could come and pick the horse up.

''If she would like the horse to stay there and if she can afford to feed it, we don't have a problem.''

Quote from "The Bulletin"

A BALGAL Beach woman's battle to keep rescued ex-racehorse Brandy has been set back after the mare was taken from the property on Monday.

The 10-year-old horse was removed from its home by the RSPCA who told the horse's foster carer of seven months, Siobhan McCabe, they needed the animal for a pre-adoption vet check.

[Earthdog]

2+2=17

[Jed]

Although I am not sure, I think the horse was shot. The fact that it had a bag over it's head at the dump, and there was no sign of an intraveneous injection in the jugular on the near side (which was the side in the photo). The body did not appear at all sweaty either, sweating is normally a symptom in every serious colic.

It would not be usual for a vet to shoot a horse. They normally have lethobarb, and would take it to a serious colic case, and the RSPCA vet would certainly have it in the clinic.

Just something else to ponder.

In addition to

2+2 = 17!!

[WoofnHoof]

Umm it would be highly irregular for a horse to show a sign of an IV injection, why would there be unless the horse had a reaction? I've never seen any noticable signs after IV drugs. Not all severe colics sweat either.

What else would make you think the horse had been shot? Why is that any more plausible to you than if it had been put down by any other method and what difference does it make anyway? It makes little difference to me how the horse was put down because either method is acceptable as long as they are administered quickly and effectively by trained personell.

[Jed]

Umm it would be highly irregular for a horse to show a sign of an IV injection, why would there be unless the horse had a reaction? I've never seen any noticable signs after IV drugs. Not all severe colics sweat either.

What else would make you think the horse had been shot? Why is that any more plausible to you than if it had been put down by any other method and what difference does it make anyway? It makes little difference to me how the horse was put down because either method is acceptable as long as they are administered quickly and effectively by trained personell.

How many horses have you had euthed with lethobarb? Not many from that statement. Ditto with colic. I have never seen one which wasn't sweating - and I've seen a lot, luckily, mostly belonging to other people, and in vet and uni clinics.

And I don't much care whether the horse was shot or injected, the results are the same, except that if the RSPCA vet and another vet were attending, I think it is extremely unlikely that the horse would have been shot by a vet.

I am not even sure the horse was shot, I just think the fact that it had a bag over the head indicated head trauma which was not wanted in the photos.

It is not normal practice, and a lot of vets are not au fait with shooting horses - although I presume the RSPCA vet would be.

Again, perhaps the RSPCA vet does shoot rather than inject, but it would be rare.

I have no knowledge, I am simply theorising. The story smells, so I have to question other items.

I have never seen a severe colic which has not sweated. Unless it was euthed before that happened, and if that was done, there are more questions, about the level of care they were prepared to give to the horse to ensure recovery.

There are few simple cases of colic which do not sweat either. There are no signs at all of this horse sweating.

I don't like untruthfulness much, although it seems to be endemic in our society, from politicians up. I don't like to think the RSPCA bumped this horse off as a punishement to the fosterer for going to the newspaper. There are discrepancies in the newspaper accounts you could drive a sherman tank through.

And I dont like to think that a horse would have so little value to the RSPCA t hat it would be killed for spite, to satisfy someone's need for power and need to win. All living things have value (even toads) and the RSPCA is the last organisation which should be killing animals without an excellent reason .... but they do.

Fact is, in the past foster carers have been warned not to speak to the media, and those who have, have been "punished" in one way or another. People who are under investigation have been threatened if they went to the media, it could get nasty.

But, because I am not a huge fan of the RSPCA, I'd like to work through it, in case I am being unfair to them.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Jed