Feeling Sad

[~Shepherd~]

voloclydes - He hasn't been fostered. Wei rescue is just facilitating between his current owners who want to give him up and possible new homes.

Secretkei - I was given a week trial and I picked him up last sunday.

deelee - Weirescue have mentioned that they'd happily keep our application and get in contact with us if they have an older, calmer wei come through.

If Nina was bigger I'd definitely stick with it as he just has the most wonderful nature and I really think that he'd mature into the most amazing dog but last night when I was playing with the baby on the floor and he heard a noise outside and ran and jumped over the baby (who was just at my knees) before I had a chance to react, scratching her head and knocking her onto the floor, I was glad I'd decided not to go through with the adoption. To keep the baby safe he'd have to spend so much time outside on his own at that wouldn't be fair to him, I grew up with dogs and we never had an outside dog so the whole idea seems wrong to me. I'll be driving him back in a couple of hours, right now he's curled up next to me being an absolute sweet heart.

I do like grey hounds but we spend a lot of weekends taking little family holidays up bush or to the lake so we really want a dog that we'll be able to, eventually, let off lead and I would like a dog that would be a watch dog. The other half and I were chatting a little about it last night - I think he's worried I'm going to mope so he keeps bringing it up. I guess we'll either wait a couple more years, if we decide on a young large breed, or if we don't wait we'll get something smaller or look for an already mature adult. Regardless of size I really want a dog I can do obedience with and possibly agility and enjoys a really good walk and is more velcro than aloof.

Can't you play with the baby in another room if you must use the floor???. It's not a bad dog because it jumped over the baby and takes some compromise to include both dogs and small children in the household. You can't expect a dog to automatically understand how it needs to behave around children and I would suggest to have a trainer assess the situation with the dog first before you make a decision to send him back. It's a amazing how some good training can alter a dog's behaviour and provide you with control. The dog didn't cause the baby harm, you caused that yourself I am sorry to say and the dog is not to blame for the incident. A smaller dog in the same situation that couldn't jump as well could poke the baby in the eye etc etc. Any dog can cause a baby harm if the baby is put in a vulnerable position in the dog's presence. Only you can control that scenario effectively.

If you must use the floor?

Many dogs are fine sharing floor space. All 4 of mine have been, A Goldie, a Belgian Shepherd, a Whippet and a White GSD. Some dogs are too flighty and unpredictable. The floor sharing is supervised, but that doesnt stop a flighty overly excitable dog from causing damage. The ages of the dogs in this situation were Belgian 6yrs, Goldie 10 years, Whippet 5.5 months, WGSD 12 months.

Whats the point in having a nutbag dog locked a way from your life, or a baby locked away from a nutbag? Nutbag will be perfectly suited to someone else.

[~Shepherd~]

omg a very small child and a large dog......never a great mix. :D

sorry dog should be returned today... do not even look back. DO NOT FEEL regret.

i have waited 20 years to get a dally... as i wanted children. now my when my child turned 11 it was time to get a larger dog...hence we got leo.

not trying to be rude, but try a smarter smaller breed like a jack russell or a foxie... they love walks but can get all lazy too.

maybe with young kids rescue is not for you either, they often come with "issues" hence they ended up there in the first place.

i think even a whimpet would be able to knock over a toddler. you need a dog smaller than the children. maybe go to so shows and see what appeals.

good luck with your dog hunting. according to this forum i should only have pet oranges, but hell we have four dogs don't let the nasty pasties get you down.

Rubbish! Its the dog within the coat, breed, and the body that is of importance along with confidence that you give the situation.

[dee lee]

omg a very small child and a large dog......never a great mix. :D

sorry dog should be returned today... do not even look back. DO NOT FEEL regret.

i have waited 20 years to get a dally... as i wanted children. now my when my child turned 11 it was time to get a larger dog...hence we got leo.

not trying to be rude, but try a smarter smaller breed like a jack russell or a foxie... they love walks but can get all lazy too.

maybe with young kids rescue is not for you either, they often come with "issues" hence they ended up there in the first place.

i think even a whimpet would be able to knock over a toddler. you need a dog smaller than the children. maybe go to so shows and see what appeals.

good luck with your dog hunting. according to this forum i should only have pet oranges, but hell we have four dogs don't let the nasty pasties get you down.

Rubbish! Its the dog within the coat, breed, and the body that is of importance along with confidence that you give the situation.

I agree. Its the individual personality of the dog that makes the difference.

Large dogs can quite often be much more gentle than smaller terrier types.

You should see the delicacy with which my dog will liberate a piece of toast from a toddler. She LOVES toddlers.

However, I have a friend with a lab the same age as my dog that would be considerably less gentle. Its her personality, not just training- some dogs are definitely more boisterous by nature.

[voloclydes]

sorry chew sometimes i have trouble making my stuff read like it would if you talk... to some one. so sorry to have caused offence.

the poster has a small child very time consuming... and a very time consuming dog.... neither it seems to be working out....

the poster seems to be saying that.

big dogs and small children do mix, but there are some special ones out there and they are born and trained....

but the right one need to be found. which i feel in this case the whole thing family and dog are not really suited.

sounds like this one may not be the "one"... the right one will be right... no matter what the breed or size. just speaking from personal experince i found one child's mess and one small dog more than enough to cope with when my child was pre school and i was not even working much.

i waited because i felt it was best for my child.....

[Red Fox]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I'm going to say it anyway.

My personal oppinion is that it's a management issue (having large dogs -or any dogs really- and small kids). I wouldn't have a baby on the floor with a large, boisterous dog in the room. Particularly if the dog was only new to the family and unprove in that type of situation.

But I see no reason why either needs to be locked away though?? Why not crate the dog in the same room while you are playing with the baby? Then pop the baby in a playpen or portacot to spend time with the dog? Keep the dog on leash when it's inside the house (or crated/penned). You dont need to isolate it. Train the dog in the yard with the baby inside in a rocker, let it off leash when the baby is sleeping or playing in it's portacot. Exercise the dog when the baby is in its pram (have a friend walk with you to push the pram if need be, or to watch and play with the baby while you run the dog around an oval.

It's not easy but it's not rocket science either

This is not by any means to have a go at the OP though. In her situation the dog was on a trial, it didn't work out and she has made the decision not to go through with the adoption so end of story. BUT- I dont think that the situation with a baby and a dog is impossible to manage if you want to :D

[voloclydes]

omg a very small child and a large dog......never a great mix. :cry:

sorry dog should be returned today... do not even look back. DO NOT FEEL regret.

i have waited 20 years to get a dally... as i wanted children. now my when my child turned 11 it was time to get a larger dog...hence we got leo.

not trying to be rude, but try a smarter smaller breed like a jack russell or a foxie... they love walks but can get all lazy too.

maybe with young kids rescue is not for you either, they often come with "issues" hence they ended up there in the first place.

i think even a whimpet would be able to knock over a toddler. you need a dog smaller than the children. maybe go to so shows and see what appeals.

good luck with your dog hunting. according to this forum i should only have pet oranges, but hell we have four dogs don't let the nasty pasties get you down.

Rubbish! Its the dog within the coat, breed, and the body that is of importance along with confidence that you give the situation.

I agree. Its the individual personality of the dog that makes the difference.

Large dogs can quite often be much more gentle than smaller terrier types.

You should see the delicacy with which my dog will liberate a piece of toast from a toddler. She LOVES toddlers.

However, I have a friend with a lab the same age as my dog that would be considerably less gentle. Its her personality, not just training- some dogs are definitely more boisterous by nature.

the personality bit is soo very true... leo would not be gentle with any small child with food he would smother them with licks and wash the whole child not just the face! :D on lead he has been known to try it...as they smell so goood!

none of us are there. its seems a personality clash....the poster may not have hawk eyes to watch both a child and a dog. i would not have.... my child was a rubbish sleeper at times and if tired your not as sharp as you need to be. only a mum knows what is best for her child.

most average people find it tough to manage a large full on big dog without a small child in the mix. not blaming anyone one or any breed here. 30kg of raw exciotment (which leo often is) is far too much for my mother in law to have even to baby sit. she is very doggie and a bit offended i won't leave him with her, but i worry if he were to jump on the lead at the wrong time..... she could be hurt. he used to jump up onto people but does not now. also another reason why you would not leave him with an older lady. in saying that there is nothing wrong with her health or fittness, but i feel he is far to ott to leave with just any one.

to quote kai.....

it is not easy..... takes a huge amount of organisation and time.

[~Shepherd~]

sorry chew sometimes i have trouble making my stuff read like it would if you talk... to some one. so sorry to have caused offence.

the poster has a small child very time consuming... and a very time consuming dog.... neither it seems to be working out....

the poster seems to be saying that.

big dogs and small children do mix, but there are some special ones out there and they are born and trained....

but the right one need to be found. which i feel in this case the whole thing family and dog are not really suited.

sounds like this one may not be the "one"... the right one will be right... no matter what the breed or size. just speaking from personal experince i found one child's mess and one small dog more than enough to cope with when my child was pre school and i was not even working much.

i waited because i felt it was best for my child.....

Dont apologise, I think I'm one of the biggest miscommunicators on the forum. My username should be 'Cryptic', however, it is hard to understand a 'Wookie'

Edited April 26, 2010 by Chewbacca

[voloclydes]

hey chew i know we all get a bit het up about big or small our breed or someone elses...

see there are a lot of breeds i have had... keplies, borders aussie terrior...corgies... maybe a corgie might be smart enough, but a heavy small/medium dog.

the only reason i suggested a smaller smarter breed then named one.... is the poster likes smart thinking dogs.....to show there are options.

but maybe the op should write a list of must have for the dog that would be perfect then peruse the breed pages or shows to see what fits. they need to find the right one. although i would not want to get a new dog with a small child... but as we had then already... they just worked. maybe they need to wait till their child is walking.... and able to use the dog as a sled! :) i know norty clydes!

my child seems to be out growing the smaller dogs now we have a big one. he like to full on wrestle the big one...... worst of all the big wossy dog loves it!.... its the mummy that can't stand it!

i can't talk too loud my child wants to take up showing and breeding! he wants a beagle a breed i have NEVER had! would love to but no experience of. he's 12! did i happen to mention we have 5 already!

[Crisovar]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I'm going to say it anyway.

My personal oppinion is that it's a management issue (having large dogs -or any dogs really- and small kids). I wouldn't have a baby on the floor with a large, boisterous dog in the room. Particularly if the dog was only new to the family and unprove in that type of situation.

But I see no reason why either needs to be locked away though?? Why not crate the dog in the same room while you are playing with the baby? Then pop the baby in a playpen or portacot to spend time with the dog? Keep the dog on leash when it's inside the house (or crated/penned). You dont need to isolate it. Train the dog in the yard with the baby inside in a rocker, let it off leash when the baby is sleeping or playing in it's portacot. Exercise the dog when the baby is in its pram (have a friend walk with you to push the pram if need be, or to watch and play with the baby while you run the dog around an oval.

It's not easy but it's not rocket science either

This is not by any means to have a go at the OP though. In her situation the dog was on a trial, it didn't work out and she has made the decision not to go through with the adoption so end of story. BUT- I dont think that the situation with a baby and a dog is impossible to manage if you want to

The thing is that adding a dog to the family should be a relatively happy time, and with the right dog it will be. Yes, it always takes work and time, BUT it doesn't need to be like boot camp just to keep a dog.

This was not the right dog for this family, large dogs can live in harmony with small children if raised correctly and if they have the right temperament to start with.

Put this dog in another situation, take small kiddies out of the equations and all will probably be sweet.

Kudos to the OP for putting her family first and having the strength to decide early enough that this was the wrong choice.

The right dog will be out there, just as the right home for this dog will be.

[Loving my Oldies]

The thing is that adding a dog to the family should be a relatively happy time, and with the right dog it will be. Yes, it always takes work and time, BUT it doesn't need to be like boot camp just to keep a dog.

This was not the right dog for this family, large dogs can live in harmony with small children if raised correctly and if they have the right temperament to start with.

Put this dog in another situation, take small kiddies out of the equations and all will probably be sweet.

Kudos to the OP for putting her family first and having the strength to decide early enough that this was the wrong choice.

The right dog will be out there, just as the right home for this dog will be.

Agree 100% with what you have said Crisovar, particularly the emboldened part.

People sometimes can be too ready to condemn and not be able to see the whole picture . . . . and often respond without reading properly what OPs have said.

[Blues and Boots]

Why not just teach the dog (big, small, whatever breed) it's not allowed to be anywhere near the baby. That's what I'm planning to do when I one day bring a baby home until I invite them on my terms to come closer. That is what I have done with my birds. I have 3 weimaraners who are all very full on at times but they each know the birds are off limits and have been taught to respect them. If a bird waddles towards them they get up and let the bird walk where it wants to go. I first taught them they weren't even allow to look at the birds or there'd be consequences. It kind of seems like this person has just expected the dog to know how to act around children/babies which kind of brings me back to my original comment that perhaps this person shouldn't get a dog at least until the kids are a bit older. I hope Hank finds a new home soon!!

[mumof3]

I know, why don't you just get rid of the baby? Foster it out. Spend your valuable time and resources on this dog.

Sorry, but sometimes the suggestions from people on this forum re managing the child / dog mix are just ridiculous. Perhaps people just shouldn't contribute if they don't actually have kids.

Good on you VA - I'm with all those who reckon you are doing the right thing.

Babies come first. Babies are more important than dogs, and birds and cats.

And dogs should exist in the family home to make our life happier.

I really really hope that some of the judgemental comments you are getting are not hurting you. People who are encouraging you to give this dog another chance to hurt your baby need a reality check.

People who are judging you for having fallen in love with a beautiful animal and gone with your heart rather than your head for once need to ask themselves if they ever made a mistake.

People judging your parenting skills might not be so quick once they have their own kids.

Stuff em..

And people suggesting fox terriers or any terrier breed over something like a golden retriever for a dog for young children need to go and read some breed descriptions.

You are getting some good advice, and some real people out there who value babies above dogs who back your decision 100%.

[Crisovar]

I know, why don't you just get rid of the baby? Foster it out. Spend your valuable time and resources on this dog.

Sorry, but sometimes the suggestions from people on this forum re managing the child / dog mix are just ridiculous. Perhaps people just shouldn't contribute if they don't actually have kids.

Good on you VA - I'm with all those who reckon you are doing the right thing.

Babies come first. Babies are more important than dogs, and birds and cats.

And dogs should exist in the family home to make our life happier.

I really really hope that some of the judgemental comments you are getting are not hurting you. People who are encouraging you to give this dog another chance to hurt your baby need a reality check.

People who are judging you for having fallen in love with a beautiful animal and gone with your heart rather than your head for once need to ask themselves if they ever made a mistake.

People judging your parenting skills might not be so quick once they have their own kids.

Stuff em..

And people suggesting fox terriers or any terrier breed over something like a golden retriever for a dog for young children need to go and read some breed descriptions.

You are getting some good advice, and some real people out there who value babies above dogs who back your decision 100%.

[badboyz]

I think you have made a wise choice in returning the dog. I too had a rescue wei when my oldest was a baby, and while he was very sweet and would behave ever so gently with my son most of the time, at other times he would get into zoomie mode and bowl him over without a thought. He was mostly outdoors with another companion dog, so it was not too much of an issue, but it used to drive my OH nuts.

I would recommend you look into the shar pei breed. They are smaller (medium size) and far less boisterous than a gundog. They are excellent guards, and do not tend to wander. They are capable of spending time on their own, without becoming destructo dogs. Mine have all been very consious and careful of my kids. I would recommend starting with a puppy, from a registered breeder, so that it will bond with the children. Pei puppies are rarely as boisterous as many other breeds, although individuals vary, with some being more laid back than others. Of course taking on any new dog requires time given to training and socializing, so if you are strapped for time, perhaps it is better to wait a little longer.

I once trialled an adult dalmation from a breeder. I knew within a few days that she was not the right dog for us and returned her promptly. Sometimes you just know that it is not going to work, for whatever reason, and best to find out quickly before everyone is too attached. No harm done.

Edited April 26, 2010 by badboyz

[Monah]

I know, why don't you just get rid of the baby? Foster it out. Spend your valuable time and resources on this dog.

Sorry, but sometimes the suggestions from people on this forum re managing the child / dog mix are just ridiculous. Perhaps people just shouldn't contribute if they don't actually have kids.

Good on you VA - I'm with all those who reckon you are doing the right thing.

Babies come first. Babies are more important than dogs, and birds and cats.

And dogs should exist in the family home to make our life happier.

I really really hope that some of the judgemental comments you are getting are not hurting you. People who are encouraging you to give this dog another chance to hurt your baby need a reality check.

People who are judging you for having fallen in love with a beautiful animal and gone with your heart rather than your head for once need to ask themselves if they ever made a mistake.

People judging your parenting skills might not be so quick once they have their own kids.

Stuff em..

And people suggesting fox terriers or any terrier breed over something like a golden retriever for a dog for young children need to go and read some breed descriptions.

You are getting some good advice, and some real people out there who value babies above dogs who back your decision 100%.

I agree with all of this. I also think the OP has done the right thing for their situation and it must have been emotionally draining and very upsetting. It's one of those situations where 'you're damned if you do and damned if you don't". awful, best to go with what you think is the best decision.

I'd just like to add that even though agree with this post, I had lakeland terriers, giant schnauzers and irish wolfhounds with my 'babies' and all indoors etc. and the giants did knock the kids over a lot, but also 'picked' them up , protected them and all the dogs were excellent with the kids (and vice versa). So you can have really great experiencces with all sorts of breeds, sizes, energy levels. It does take training and supervision, and can be tiring and I think taking an adolescent, boisterous, untrained dog would be much more difficult. But don't give up on the idea.

My kids ended up being so 'stable' that the girlchild cares for large (african) animals and both kids can handle anything with 4 legs

[Black Bronson]

voloclydes - He hasn't been fostered. Wei rescue is just facilitating between his current owners who want to give him up and possible new homes.

Secretkei - I was given a week trial and I picked him up last sunday.

deelee - Weirescue have mentioned that they'd happily keep our application and get in contact with us if they have an older, calmer wei come through.

If Nina was bigger I'd definitely stick with it as he just has the most wonderful nature and I really think that he'd mature into the most amazing dog but last night when I was playing with the baby on the floor and he heard a noise outside and ran and jumped over the baby (who was just at my knees) before I had a chance to react, scratching her head and knocking her onto the floor, I was glad I'd decided not to go through with the adoption. To keep the baby safe he'd have to spend so much time outside on his own at that wouldn't be fair to him, I grew up with dogs and we never had an outside dog so the whole idea seems wrong to me. I'll be driving him back in a couple of hours, right now he's curled up next to me being an absolute sweet heart.

I do like grey hounds but we spend a lot of weekends taking little family holidays up bush or to the lake so we really want a dog that we'll be able to, eventually, let off lead and I would like a dog that would be a watch dog. The other half and I were chatting a little about it last night - I think he's worried I'm going to mope so he keeps bringing it up. I guess we'll either wait a couple more years, if we decide on a young large breed, or if we don't wait we'll get something smaller or look for an already mature adult. Regardless of size I really want a dog I can do obedience with and possibly agility and enjoys a really good walk and is more velcro than aloof.

Can't you play with the baby in another room if you must use the floor???. It's not a bad dog because it jumped over the baby and takes some compromise to include both dogs and small children in the household. You can't expect a dog to automatically understand how it needs to behave around children and I would suggest to have a trainer assess the situation with the dog first before you make a decision to send him back. It's a amazing how some good training can alter a dog's behaviour and provide you with control. The dog didn't cause the baby harm, you caused that yourself I am sorry to say and the dog is not to blame for the incident. A smaller dog in the same situation that couldn't jump as well could poke the baby in the eye etc etc. Any dog can cause a baby harm if the baby is put in a vulnerable position in the dog's presence. Only you can control that scenario effectively.

If you must use the floor?

Many dogs are fine sharing floor space. All 4 of mine have been, A Goldie, a Belgian Shepherd, a Whippet and a White GSD. Some dogs are too flighty and unpredictable. The floor sharing is supervised, but that doesnt stop a flighty overly excitable dog from causing damage. The ages of the dogs in this situation were Belgian 6yrs, Goldie 10 years, Whippet 5.5 months, WGSD 12 months.

Whats the point in having a nutbag dog locked a way from your life, or a baby locked away from a nutbag? Nutbag will be perfectly suited to someone else.

Many rescue dogs haven't had a great start to life in training and often display adolescent energy that is not ideal being the reason why I recommended a trainer assess this dog first. Dog's can easily be calmed with some proper training, but doing nothing and expecting the dog to understand what behaviour is required isn't fair on the dog. I get the picture here that the dog is no good on the basis that it bowled the baby over which is a supervison issue IMO. If you need a dog to be gentle, you train it accordingly which is not a major drama, but you can't expect an adolescent dog full of energy with little training to behave in any particular way.

[Black Bronson]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I'm going to say it anyway.

My personal oppinion is that it's a management issue (having large dogs -or any dogs really- and small kids). I wouldn't have a baby on the floor with a large, boisterous dog in the room. Particularly if the dog was only new to the family and unprove in that type of situation.

But I see no reason why either needs to be locked away though?? Why not crate the dog in the same room while you are playing with the baby? Then pop the baby in a playpen or portacot to spend time with the dog? Keep the dog on leash when it's inside the house (or crated/penned). You dont need to isolate it. Train the dog in the yard with the baby inside in a rocker, let it off leash when the baby is sleeping or playing in it's portacot. Exercise the dog when the baby is in its pram (have a friend walk with you to push the pram if need be, or to watch and play with the baby while you run the dog around an oval.

It's not easy but it's not rocket science either

This is not by any means to have a go at the OP though. In her situation the dog was on a trial, it didn't work out and she has made the decision not to go through with the adoption so end of story. BUT- I dont think that the situation with a baby and a dog is impossible to manage if you want to

Excellent post.........exactly the way I would handle the situation too

[Verdant Amphibian]

good luck with your dog hunting. according to this forum i should only have pet oranges, but hell we have four dogs don't let the nasty pasties get you down.

omg I'm in trouble then Ava is a fruit fiend, no citrus in my care is safe.

B&B that was the plan. But he was so excitable that it wasn't going to be anything like a quick process and there was too much risk of baby injury in the mean time. If he'd been a couple of years older or a little younger it probably would have been fine. That or if Nina was still a tiny baby because I could have put her up in the rocker or the swing in an out of the way spot in the lounge and started teaching him that she's off limits.

Mumof3 (and others with positive parental type comments ) Before I had the girls there were so many things I said about how it would be with my children, I would never tiptoe around the baby, instead I would let him/her learn to sleep through noises - I had a bad sleeper so I tiptoed and shushed my guests. I wasn't going to let them watch TV until they were at least three - now whenever the OH is out of a night time the dulcet tones of the wiggles big red car soothes me while I cook dinner. They also weren't going to stop me from going out and having fun. Last night the OH and I had a big night because we ate chinese on the couch and watched a movie after the children were asleep. Before kids I thought parents seemed rather superior, now... So I really can't cast any stones in regards to non-parental attitudes since I was shocking for it pre-bubbies. Just to be clear to everyone I am in no way accusing people of not understanding parental point of view (I don't know you well enough) I'm just noting how much having children changed my attitudes.

SecretKei - It might be possible to seperate the kids using a playpen but I find the idea of putting the kids in a playpen so I can play with the dog intolerable and no baby cages (as he put it) was one of the only things my OH had a strong opinion about with raising the babies.

About the girls being knocked over. Both have been knocked over plenty of times. My parents german wirehaired pointer bitch was only one when my eldest girl was born, but she tries to be careful, it was just her bum getting in the way and I can see that Ava is much more confident around dogs than the other kids her age in out mum's group that haven't had much to do with them. Hank was not careful and I was certainly supervising when he jumped over her and scratched her head, since she was playing at my knees it was just so swift I had little time to react.

Thanks again for the positive comments. I'm not taking the negative ones personally I feel culpable in this situation. The only thing I worry with posting about a mistake I made is that it might be brought up again. When I do introduce another dog into the family I want to be able to seek advise, brag, discuss etc without worrying about getting flak over this.

My OH keeps talking about dogs. He really enjoyed taking Hank up to the bush reserve to play, I think he'd forgotten what it's like to have a dog around so now he's the one who's all eager listing breeds that he thinks might meet our needs. Although when Hank tried to flea his crotch and nipped him right on the end of his... he was not very pleased. The listing thing is quite cute but I wish he'd give it a few weeks. It's funny though, before having a really big dog in the house he referred to little dogs as rat-dogs now his list is full of them - but that may be because I tearfully told him I didn't want to have a big dog until the girls were older.

I guess this is what we really want in a dog.

Good with the kids (supervised of course), Ava is quite gentle she pats softly and she doesn't know you can pick animals up, since our cats hate it and all the dogs she knows are too big - but she is only 2.5 so can do silly things for no apparent reason. Nina is still of the opinion that everything should go in her mouth. So you can see supervision is a must. I have no problem with this though, I watch the girls all the time anyway to make sure the big one is playing nicely with the little one. I'm home most of the time and have plenty of time to spend with a dog so long as it doesn't have to be time without the girls in it.

Intelligent/quick to learn - I want to go to obedience and possibly do agility. Having watched my parents-in-law bash their heads against a wall for the last two years doing obedience with their beagle I would prefer something that would not only respond well but most importantly enjoy it.

More clingy than aloof - having grown up with dogs that just want to be near you I think I would be unhappy with an aloof dog.

Exercise - happy to do an hour to two hours but if something happens and they can only get 30 min they wont be horribly unhappy. We have a small yard but a special doggy sandpit and there will be plenty of doggy toys

Friendly with other dogs - we go up bush a lot and there are several dogs up there, all friendly or kept separate and they have a grand time playing together and sniffing all the smells. It would be a shame to have a dog that couldn't enjoy this. We would of course be putting effort into socialization.

Watchdog - not necessarily a guard dog at all but I definitely want a watch dog.

The cats like the idea of a dog that starts smaller than them but I'm not so fussed about that.

OH keeps mentioning shetland sheepdogs, miniature poodles (strangely for a gsd type man he adores poodles) and miniature schnauzer. He objects to corgis being added to the list but didn't mind papillons or aussie terriers. I'm not sure what else might suit the above requirements or even if the aforementioned dogs do, I really haven't looked into them enough yet. I probably haven't given little dogs enough thought because of having met too many awful little dogs - fault of the owners I know but it's hard to get the preconceptions out of your head.

[Red Fox]

SecretKei - It might be possible to seperate the kids using a playpen but I find the idea of putting the kids in a playpen so I can play with the dog intolerable and no baby cages (as he put it) was one of the only things my OH had a strong opinion about with raising the babies.

Sorry VA but there are days when I wish it was legal to crate my 10 year old

Good luck finding a more suitable dog for your family. Dont rush it, do LOTS of research, perhaps look into an older retired showdog who has had some training and is known to be good with kids next time rather than a rescue. (Check out the DOL listings for mature dogs: http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/dogs.asp)

*sp

Edited April 26, 2010 by SecretKei

[Verdant Amphibian]

SK - If you think crate training Ava would help with toilet training I might give it a go

I like the idea of an older dog, I just want one young enough though that the girls can remember the dog before gets old. The OH quite likes the idea of a puppy.