How Young Can Large Breed Dogs Be Bred?

[Zombie Bait]

Hello DOLer's,

I own a large breed (Sierra, RR) who is desexed. I was just looking at her littermates online (as you do ) and her litter sister recently had a litter. She would of been approx 21 months old when mated and pups whelped when approx 23 months old. Sire was 11 months old at mating.

Is this too young or am I overeacting?

I thought with large breeds you waited a little longer for maturity?

TIA

[tdierikx]

When I had Rotties, the CC in my state had guidelines of 20 months for the bitch and at least 15 months for the dog (from memory - could be wrong about the dog age) - my girl was over 2 years old when she was bred - my preference...

T.

[t-time]

GIANT breeds have age restrictions (18 months?) but for everyone else, bitches can whelp once they are 12 months and males can start breeding at 9 months. In some breeds certain health tests are required before breeding so those tests often can't be performed at an early age.

I can find the direct rule if you want

[Red Fox]

I looked at a litter where the sire was only 10 or 11 months old. I remember thinking at the time that this was a bit odd as he wouldn't have been fully developed yet, nor did he have any titles on him (though he was doing well in the ring and I think he might have his Australian Champion title now...).

The dam was much older (around 6 I think) and had already a couple of litters so they would have known what to expect with her. The boys lines were very good though and the breeder was quite experienced so I wonder if there were other reasons behind it. Perhaps they wanted to breed with the bitch before she got any older? I still found it odd though. They were Ridgies too.

[dancinbcs]

It used to be considered normal to use a dog at stud for the first time around 10 months if possible. It matures them up and usually leads to a more reliable easy to use stud. Dogs not used till later can be more difficult to get matings with. In breeds where hip scoring is done it is usual to wait until the dog is old enough to be hip scored before using him. From a purely physical point of view many breeds are capable of siring a litter from about 6 months.

With bitches the bigger the breed the longer you usually wait to breed. Toys around 12 months, medium breeds around 18 months and giant breeds closer to two years. Physically they are fertile from their first seaon. At the other end of their lives the reverse applies. Giant breeds are elderly at eight but the smaller breeds can often be safely bred at 8,9 and even 10 years. Bitches are at their most fertile though between 12 months and three years so leaving them till later ages for a first litter can lead to fertility problems. How early they start their seasons and how frequent they are is also a determining factor. Every season leads to a drop in fertility, so a bitch that comes in at 6 months and cycles every 4-5 months, would need to be bred a lot earlier than one that has her first season at 15 months and has an eight months cycle.

[ellz]

Current thinking of some of the top repro vets in the USA is breed young and breed often.

[Zombie Bait]

Thanks guys for your replies.

It's funny cos I still feel that Sierra is a puppy so to me it's weird that she is an aunty! I think I was more weirded out by the age of the sire, but when I looked at his pedigree the sire of him was 11 months old too at time of mating so I guess it isn't so strange.

It's hard I guess to find a compromise when breeding large breeds cos they mature later but also decrease in fertlity earlier.

Thanks again for your replies, I appreciate it

[bulldogz4eva]

Hello DOLer's,

I own a large breed (Sierra, RR) who is desexed. I was just looking at her littermates online (as you do ) and her litter sister recently had a litter. She would of been approx 21 months old when mated and pups whelped when approx 23 months old. Sire was 11 months old at mating.

Is this too young or am I overeacting?

I thought with large breeds you waited a little longer for maturity?

TIA

Generally speaking it is 2 years but 21 months is fine.What I dont agre with is using a stud at 11 months of age.I know at times there may be reasons for it but to me it is to young.How can accurately gauge how the dog will turn out a this age?You will have a good idea but its not set in stone.

It used to be considered normal to use a dog at stud for the first time around 10 months if possible. It matures them up and usually leads to a more reliable easy to use stud. Dogs not used till later can be more difficult to get matings with. In breeds where hip scoring is done it is usual to wait until the dog is old enough to be hip scored before using him. From a purely physical point of view many breeds are capable of siring a litter from about 6 months.

I dont know about maturing them.It does make them easier to handle when mating and gets them used to it but that said I have never had too much trouble with using an older dog that hasnt been used.It just takes more time and effort.My other question was going to be abot hip scoring and you are right best to wait until a hip score is done.In saying that how many breeders of large breeds hip score their dogs,put up your hands.I see a growing trend of peope not doing it.I know of quite a few registered breeders of large breeds who dont and give various excuses why.

Many breeds as you have said can physically sire a litter at 6 months and I have witnessed this purposely being done by a registered breeder just to fill puppy orders.A registered breeder of bull breeds whose dogs appear in the pages here.Shame shame shame.

[alpha bet]

In Victoria you are not meant to mate a bitch until 18 months old. And I thought that mating for a stud dog was over 12 months.

Especially with breeds that have to go thru hip/elbow xray....

[Jed]

Chronological age is less important than physical and mental maturity. 2nd or 3rd season is right for bitch's first litter.

We are so busy now getting dogs titled and health tested that they are too old when they have their first litter, and consequently have difficulties whelping. Not all, but enough.

Age of the dog is totally dependent on his maturity.

And whether tests need to be undertaken prior to mating. Again, a stud dog who learns his job as a youngster usually turns into a good stud dog, all other things being equal.

There is also evidence that the best pups overall are produced from younger bitches.