Black Staffy Pups

[azza]

Is it just me or is it near impossible to find a black or black and white english staffy pup between tweed qld and hervey bay qld?

I have been looking for a fully papered Black /black white englist staffy pup for 8 months now!

They all seem to black brindle.

I currently have a 6 month old black brindle bitch Kayla and am looking for a male play mate for her.

Once upon a time the blues used to be rare dogs now every puppy peddler seems to be jumping on the band wagon! they seem to be more common than any other colour these days!!

If any one does know of some one who does breed black staffys in south east qld please let me know

Regards to all

Azza

[Sandra777]

There's no such thing as a black Staffordshire Bull Terrier. They are ALL black brindle. The odd one will show no brindle, but most will have a little bit of brindle on them somewhere

I had a litter here born in November (and definitely live between Tweed & Hervey Bay LOL) that were very black brindle, and advertised on here as such.

If you just want a friend for your bitch why the desire for ''full papers''? Most ethical breeders sell their pet puppies on limit register.

[dancinbcs]

There's no such thing as a black Staffordshire Bull Terrier. They are ALL black brindle. The odd one will show no brindle, but most will have a little bit of brindle on them somewhere

I had a litter here born in November (and definitely live between Tweed & Hervey Bay LOL) that were very black brindle, and advertised on here as such.

If you just want a friend for your bitch why the desire for ''full papers''? Most ethical breeders sell their pet puppies on limit register.

I have definitely seen black SBT in the ring occasionally and the standard lists it as a colour. From the breed standard under colour:

"Red, fawn, white, black or blue, or any one of these colours with white. Any shade of brindle or any shade of brindle with white. Black and tan or liver colour highly undesirable."

The OP may mean registered pure bred by the term "full papers" not necessarily main register.

[Sandra777]

I have definitely seen black SBT in the ring occasionally

No, you have seen a black brindle with few or no stripes. I have a bitch here who is ''black'' - she does NOT have any stripes on her. But she isn't actually black, she is black brindle

and the standard lists it as a colour.

You are talking about a standard which allows blue but demands a black nose. Lets just say the standard lists phenotypes which may or may not be genetically possible

The OP may mean registered pure bred by the term "full papers" not necessarily main register.

Could do

[dancinbcs]

I have definitely seen black SBT in the ring occasionally

No, you have seen a black brindle with few or no stripes. I have a bitch here who is ''black'' - she does NOT have any stripes on her. But she isn't actually black, she is black brindle

and the standard lists it as a colour.

You are talking about a standard which allows blue but demands a black nose. Lets just say the standard lists phenotypes which may or may not be genetically possible

The OP may mean registered pure bred by the term "full papers" not necessarily main register.

Could do

So many of the standards have the colours genetically wrong that it doesn't surprise me. I have always wondered who the genius was who put blue in your standard but demanded a black nose. It's an impossible combination in any breed.

[becks]

How can you have a brindle without stripes?

[ellz]

How can you have a brindle without stripes?

The same way you can have a dog which genetically carries tan points but doesn't actually show them (obviously anyway).

For example.....there are many buff and red/white American Cocker Spaniels which are genetically tan pointed.

Or a silver buff American Cocker which is genetically black but lacks the power to express the black colouration to its coat. It still has the genetic qualities of a black, just in a very pale wrapper.

And MANY Staffords LOOK black to the naked eye, but either brindle out as they get older, or if you tip them upside down, you'll find stripes on their undersides or inside their legs. The stripes will be there....somewhere.

[ellz]

And for the OP. You may have to widen your search. I live in Tasmania and have recently sent puppies to Townsville and Cairns....both very dark black/brindles albeit they were on Limited Registration.

[Rebanne]

Greyhounds can be genetically brindle without showing an obvious stripe

[Sandra777]

The degree of striping is determined by genes other than the single gene which determines the dog is brindle. You can get dogs so lightly striped they appear virtually red, but with one or two stripes, or dogs so heavily striped they appear black with only one or two red bits showing through - and everything in between

[oakway]

If you only want a playmate for your bitch why does it have to be on the main register ?.

Why couldn't you contact Staffy rescue and get a nice dark one all ready de sexed that may fill the bill perfectly.

[WreckitWhippet]

There's plenty of very black brindles on the limit register available.

[Alyosha]

I have always wondered who the genius was who put blue in your standard but demanded a black nose. It's an impossible combination in any breed.

Blue Afghans have black noses. But that's because it's not a dilute form of blue.

[dancinbcs]

I have always wondered who the genius was who put blue in your standard but demanded a black nose. It's an impossible combination in any breed.

Blue Afghans have black noses. But that's because it's not a dilute form of blue.

What is a blue Afghan genetically? If it is not a dilute, how is it blue

Or is blue the term used to describe the stripy pattern that looks a bit like blue merle? If it is then they are not any more blue than any breed described as blue merle. Blue merle actually refers to a black pigmented dog with a coat pattern that included blue patches. The term should really be black merle to distinguish it from the dogs that really do have blue pigment with a merle coat pattern and are usually now refered to as slate merle.

[ellz]

Remember that there are effectively two types of "blue" gene. The dilute blue and the greying blue which is what Kerry Blues are. They start out black and turn grey with age.

If I recall rightly from past conversations with Wendye Slatyer when I worked for her, the Afghan "blue" gene is the greying gene. A blue Afghan will invariably begin life looking like a black and "fade" as it grows.

[Ozstar]

Here is a pic of Jack, he may look black but has about 12 brindle hairs that you can only see in the sun light.

On his papers he is classed as a brindle and white (has a few white hairs on his chest).

This is his daughter who has about the same amount of brindling, she is also a brindle and white.

Just because pups may be listed as brindle does not mean that they aren't mainly black.

Leanne

[Lowenhart]

Remember that there are effectively two types of "blue" gene. The dilute blue and the greying blue which is what Kerry Blues are. They start out black and turn grey with age.

If I recall rightly from past conversations with Wendye Slatyer when I worked for her, the Afghan "blue" gene is the greying gene. A blue Afghan will invariably begin life looking like a black and "fade" as it grows.

Actually blue Afghans are born blue. I've had a few and they are definitely NOT black at birth. BUT they are not genetically dd so have black noses, they do however tend to have paler eyes.

The dna colour study in Afghans:

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/Afghans.html

[dancinbcs]

dog geek also sent me this pm a couple of days ago. Sorry I am only just gettting around to posting it.

Hi dancinbcs

I can't reply in Breeders' - but can tell you that Blue in Afghans is a different gene locus to Blue in other breeds of dogs.

I can't wait for the Afghans' genetic assay to be done, that info intrigued me when I found it after googling blue afghan hounds, curiousity over what other differences they have is killing me!!

If you would like to post this for me in Breeders I would be ever so grateful....

[ellz]

Remember that there are effectively two types of "blue" gene. The dilute blue and the greying blue which is what Kerry Blues are. They start out black and turn grey with age.

If I recall rightly from past conversations with Wendye Slatyer when I worked for her, the Afghan "blue" gene is the greying gene. A blue Afghan will invariably begin life looking like a black and "fade" as it grows.

Actually blue Afghans are born blue. I've had a few and they are definitely NOT black at birth. BUT they are not genetically dd so have black noses, they do however tend to have paler eyes.

The dna colour study in Afghans:

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/Afghans.html

Interesting. Not surprising that I'm behind the times, last time I spoke to Wendye about Afghans was back in about 1991!!

The couple that I did see when I worked there though, and the ones which made me ask her were definitely dark at birth.....not the black-black that I'm accustomed to seeing in American Cockers, but certainly a very dark colour.

[Lowenhart]

Interesting. Not surprising that I'm behind the times, last time I spoke to Wendye about Afghans was back in about 1991!!

The couple that I did see when I worked there though, and the ones which made me ask her were definitely dark at birth.....not the black-black that I'm accustomed to seeing in American Cockers, but certainly a very dark colour.

Blue Afghan pup, about a week old:

You can see the telltale Blue/Brown cast to the coat. She was a dark blue but even when she came out of the sack she was obviously not black.

All that white blazing also disappeared - still has a white toe or 2 but none of the facial blazing stayed. We had 3 Blues in this litter (from an Oyster Brindle dog to a Black bitch), all born with white facial markings that disappeared.

Unfortunately I don't have any clear photos of them as young puppies.