Feeling Down About My Dog

[percyk]

ive seen changes in a pup that my friend bought...just a bitzer...greyhound...maybe kelpie cross

independent and very dominant in the beginning...growled and fought her the whole time

she got some behaviourist advice and followed a routine...but the thing that seemed to change it the most was the NILF

i saw a change in the dog myself when he was about 8months...when he started to lie down for his food and not touch it until a signal was given

the daily walks on lead seemed to help too...lots of food rewards

almost at each step ...he was growing up to be a strong tall dog...very greyhound looking and would pull if he wasnt checked all of the time

incredibly the dog which seemed so aloof now cries for her if she stays overnight somewhere...goes round looking for her...sleeps on her bed...and is so much more affectionate

still not much of a tail wagger but does enjoy cuddles a lot more

the dog is now 2 and a bit

i thought their relationship was doomed frankly...that shed made a mistake in getting the pup but it goes to show that training and routines and consistency and time can do wonders

still not a perfect dog..he is still wilful and steals at every opportunity despite his perfect manners at dinner ...he is an opportunist in every sense!

but he is a lovely dog to look at and she has just adjusted her expectations...hes no lassie or littlest hobo but hes pretty good for a dog that couldve ended up dumped in someones elses hands

hang in there...keep giving it your best

[Aidan]

We did faze out food and he still sat, but now he's not. I tried clicker training and I am bad at it!!

So when you faded the food, do you mean you faded it as lure or faded it as a reinforcer? e.g of fading it as a lure is to pretend it is in your hand for a while, but it's actually in your pocket or on a table. e.g of fading it as a reinforcer is that you stop giving it for every response.

If you're not confident with your clicker skills, use a verbal bridge instead. Not usually a problem.

[Lucy's mama]

Both Aiden - first as a lure, then as a reinforcer, just using it as a reinforcer occasionally.

[Aidan]

Both Aiden - first as a lure, then as a reinforcer, just using it as a reinforcer occasionally.

When you go to a schedule of reinforcement and the performance suddenly drops off the first thing to look at is increasing the ratio of reinforcement. This should occur regardless of the pup's age (meaning, adolescence can have an influence but the reliable solution is still to increase the ratio of reinforcement). What you're seeing is known as "ratio strain" and it is a predictable, replicable phenomenon.

[Bisart Dobes]

He is just a kid - compare him to your own kids - how often do they push the boundary's ?

Good lord I have a 7 1/2 year old bitch who still pushes the boundarys pretty much every day - she may be one of the highest titled dogs in the country but still thats her and she isn't going to change - though she is getting a little mellow with some years behind her we still call her our three year old on raspberry

Patience Is A Virtue (at least thats what I keep telling myself).

[corvus]

I think you just have to remind yourself that this is the worst it gets. And be prepared to laugh and not take things too seriously. My little guy is on his slow and weary way out of adolescence and frankly I think it's a good day if he can focus on me for more than a few minutes. The world is extremely interesting to him at the moment. So I just go with the flow and don't expect more than about 30 seconds of attention at a time. I dismiss him before he can get distracted. I honestly think he has an over-sensitive reward system, because he is a bit manic about getting rewards. But that's all right, because it makes him pretty alert to any opportunity to do what he's told to do. We haven't phased out treats and don't intend to. It makes for some super reliable behaviour, and we have really strong things like down to fall back on if he's inventing something terrible to do that can't be allowed to be found to be rewarding. And basically he thinks it's always worth a go to do what he's told.

I try not to get into battles with him, because he tends to be more motivated to win them than I am. Besides which, he is an obnoxious twat. It has always seemed more sensible to just teach him the benefits of choosing to behave in ways that I enjoy. This has worked well for us, as he always wants to do what he's asked to do because it has historically been rewarded. He gets all the cuddles he wants provided he does what is asked of him first. In all honesty, I love NILIF for a dog like him. Without that structure in his life he would be forever trying things that are most likely going to be unfun for me. It's quite a bit less stressful once they learn the drill. Erik downs automatically whenever he really wants something. Much better than jumping all over me barking or whatever else he has dreamt up.

[ESCS]

I think we may have the same trainer and had our training sessions about the same time. I have also found her to be a wonderful trainer and she has been very supportive since our session. I can understand your frustrations as at times, it does seem like it's one step forward and then a few back. NILIF was also a challenge for all of us ( dog and humans) as our Tibbie started to ignore us too in protest but gradually, the daily training and new techniques seem to be taking effect. There were parts of the program that didn't work for our situation and the trainer was helpful in modifying it for us. I think someone else suggested it but perhaps it might help to contact the trainer about modifying some parts of yours? I hope things improve for you and your dog soon.

[dandybrush]

do you feed him a bowl of dog food for dinner every night?

just an idea...dont. instead of feeding him dinner take the amount of biscuits he would normally get and use them as "training treats" everytime he looks at you or responds just a click (if you have a clicker) and he gets a biscuit. do not give him any other treats..that is all he gets. it might take a few days of ignoring you, but he will eat when he is hungry, he will not starve himself, and will soon learn to eat he has to obey.

[Mervin]

It's amusing to read about everyone expirences doing bottle with the teenage dog, every dog we have had (all girls) has been like this, personally I enjoy the mind games. People underate a dogs intelligents to often I think. My wife trains her and feeds her, but sometimes she will just ignore her commands.She very rarely comes to my wife for a pat but will fall asleep with her head on my lap. Dogs can be quite mean too there owners, but I don't think that most dog's actually want to be leader of the pack, they're just challenging you to step up to the plate and to give them a bit of direction, I think they get a bit confused when they have the power.

[kinsella]

There is nothing so frustrating as an adolescent dog acting their age. Or funny, for that matter. I'm sure they do it to remind us that they are dogs with a mind of their own and not robots that respond to our every wish. It is a phase that comes on the heels of the sweet puppy syndrome and doesn't always look good in comparison. I find it an absolute hoot having a dog that becomes obstinate when, until now, has been totally compliant. I try to not give it too much importance, this too will pass.

[mumof3]

Hugs

Sounds like you are doing a terrific job. You're getting advice and support when you need it.

You are doing what your trainer says.

Your dog is lucky to have you. You're probably a great Mum too, if you care about your kids like you care about this dog (which of course you would - more so).

Amongst all this - look after yourself. Something nice everyday. Here are some ideas:

Get up early and watch the sun rise.

Buy a cheap coffee machine and expensive beans and have a really good cup of coffee every day.

Go somewhere you really like just to enjoy yourself every week.

Lay in bed on the weekend and cuddle the kids.

Have dinner at a restaurant with a good girlfriend (and no kids).

Sing, dance, whatever.

Get off the internet - sitting around makes you feel down. Turn the computer off and go and do something that makes you feel happy.

Goodluck.

[tez]

Hang in there! It may take awhile but you will get there in the end. Jane was one tough cookie as she has been pushing the boundries since day one but she is finally getting there...and our bond with her is stonger I think because of this. Some dogs just have bigger, more out-there personalities.

I HIGHLY recommend the book 'Pigs can Fly'...sorry can remembder the author. It specifically looks at how to train and understand dogs who are not necessarily 'biddable' and is great at teaching you how to clicker train. It really turned things around for me and Jane as we both started having fun with each other and it was great to watch her really think and nut things out when shaping behaviours. Please please have a read!

[Lucy's mama]

Thank you Mum of 3, what a lovely post.

I began seeing some improvement yesterday. Thank dog! He is still ignorant but he followed several commands without food so at least I know for sure he DOES know them. He did a lot better on lead too. The previous day I gave up because when he realised the leash tasted bad (i sprayed it with aerogaurd) he decided to jump and snap at my hands instead. Yesterday he did well in the yard, so we went for a walk but stopped before we got to the reactive dogs homes. He did really well, just wouldn't sit while on lead. It's a great improvement though.

I had to crate him when FIL came because he is as ignorant as the dog. Or more so.