Some Judges "why"

[WreckitWhippet]

If a judge really wants to stand back and look at a dog on the stack, they will wait for the handler to stack it.

My advice is, if you get one that's going over your dog before you've stacked it, make sure you do not stuff it up on the move

[Dellcara]

Has never happened to me. Maybe because I own a table breed?

I have a table breed and I see this happen regularly.

Usually with the exhibit who's first in the class .... after that you're ok .... if you can't set your dog up by the time

the previous exhibit has done their triangle etc then that's your fault.

[Sayly]

Happened frequently when I was exhibiting a rare breed, often when the dog hadn't even been moved, so the judge hadn't 'seen' her yet. 99% of the time she was the only one of her breed exhibited at the show. I found it a good indication that the judge did not care for or know the breed well. I would just continue to place the dog while they were going over her, the dog didn't mind. The breeds I've shown with more of the breed entered or usually exhibited generally seem to be given more time, I think perhaps because the judge needs to actually compare them to other exhibits, or their knowledge/ideal of the breed??

I regularly show a rare breed (non-tabled), some tabled dogs of well known breeds (but not many exhibited at the moment) and a non-tabled, flashy breed that gets 5 - 10ish dogs per show entered.

I have found with the rare breed we almost always are given no time to stack up. It's in, start stacking and the judge is there already. This isn't a flashy or popular breed and doesn't get put up much except under specialists.

The table breed and the flashy breed are given much more time to stack up generally, especially the tabled breed.

It does annoy me, with the rarer breed I feel it gives a view of being uninterested in the breed. Whether that's the case or not I don't know.

[Alyosha]

...They wait for other, more confident exhibitors though

I have found this too. I wonder if some much more experienced exhibitors have a more assertive air in the ring?

I find it worse when I go into a class in group, usually with a youngster, and the judge awards it before the participants get to stack up or even know what's going on! Everyone turns around and asks each other who won! I appreciate they have often made up their minds while going through the breeds but it is a bit abrupt and strange.

[whippets]

If the judge starts going over the dog while I'm stacking then I continue to stack while he/she goes over the dog.

I've never been told to stop stacking.

[Miss B]

I show a table breed, and a relatively rare one with usually no more than one dog per class. It only takes me a few seconds to stack my dog on the table, yet this happens to me all the time. The dog is barely on the table and already the judge is checking the bite. Although I suppose the judge does get a good look at the dogs stacked during the Challenge lineup...

[mersonmalinois]

When I judge, I give the exhibitors enough time to stack, but not a LONG time.

The "going over" of the dog is for the exam, checking teeth, coat, muscle tone, testicles, etc. I'm not "judging" a dog at that time, I'm doing the exam. The judging comes when I see the movement, temperament, and all the pieces from everything done in the ring come together. If a dog moves a foot on the exam or sits down, big deal. I'm not worried about it.

[shellbyville]

...They wait for other, more confident exhibitors though

I have found this too. I wonder if some much more experienced exhibitors have a more assertive air in the ring?

I find it worse when I go into a class in group, usually with a youngster, and the judge awards it before the participants get to stack up or even know what's going on! Everyone turns around and asks each other who won! I appreciate they have often made up their minds while going through the breeds but it is a bit abrupt and strange.

I have found this as well. I do think if you look like you know what you are doing out in the ring (whether you actually feel like you do) you may be taken a little more seriously. I agree that we all should be able to stack our dogs in a short amount of time, so judges are not wasting time, or feel like they cannot give us the time we need, because we take too long. I have been showing for a while and usually sit and study handlers that I think do a good job and then try to go out and replica that, trying to look and act confident and not bungling around. I think it helps with my confidence as well as my dogs.

Also on the point of judges awarding class in group before you have time to stack, I have found that at times I or the last in my group barely has time to make it into the ring before it is awarded. This also doesn't help with our confidence and at times I have felt really stupid! Surely just waiting a moment for everyone to get in the ring and stack or at least have an attempt at stacking isn't too much to ask of judges, whether they have already made up their minds or not? Saying that some judges are just great, they give you time to stack, make you & your dog feel of worth (whether you win or not) and generally make the day very pleasant, whether you go home with a fringe ribbon or you don't. So a big cheer for all the judges out there that are pleasant, ethical, courteous and just plain nice!

[SkySoaringMagpie]

...They wait for other, more confident exhibitors though

I have found this too. I wonder if some much more experienced exhibitors have a more assertive air in the ring?

That is definitely part of it, but I also think some people are well known and that factors in to how they are treated. That is not the same as making allegations of face judging, it's just that some (not all) judges are intimidated to a greater or lesser extent by their peers or very successful handlers.

[ellz]

Has never happened to me. Maybe because I own a table breed?

I have a table breed as well and the same thing happens. It really annoys me when judges SWOOP down on a puppy on the table when you are trying to set it up and settle it.

[RallyValley]

I have found people are good, but it might be because they are standing there trying to work out what Lincoln is for a little bit.

[AmandaJ]

We had one show a few years ago where the Judge had awarded Best in Group before the last dogs had even entered the ring.

[Havasneeze]

Iv'e noticed it starting to happen more and more, you enter the ring, You're the only one in your class and before you have set or stacked your dog (which ever you prefer) and you are part way through the stacking, the Judge has come up and is handling (usually mouthing) your dog, all of a sudden you're in their way or visa versa. Is it fair to the dog?, Is it fair to you? Surely they can wait an extra (15) seconds or so?. Or is it an indication that they don't have any tolerance for your breed.

I get peeverd off and realy feel like saying something, like, "At least give us a chance to set up" Would that be unethical?

Has it happened to you?, if so how do you feel about the situation?.

I find this all the time. As soon as I have put my dog on the table, the judge starts going over them, while I am still setting the dog up. They wait for other, more confident exhibitors though

I noted this myself when I first started exhibiting and decided that I would try and look like I had a good dog and it was worth their time waiting for me. I have found that this has helped with the time given whilst stacking my dogs

[Guest CaptainCourageous]

We exhibit to the whole world watching, not just the judge.

We can't have opinions on the individual cases here unless we know why the judges are in unholy rushes.

CC

[LizT]

This has happened to me on a number of occassions, particulary if I'm the first one up on the table. Some Judges haven't looked at my dog side on yet but come straight up to her in the front as I'm stacking her. She even jumped up and licked one judge in the face once as she came in and spoke real cutsie to her and being a Cavalier she decided it was necessary to be cutsie back!

I think it happens when the Judges have lots of dogs to get through and want to keep things moving along.

[BittyMooPeeb]

This has happened to me on a number of occassions, particulary if I'm the first one up on the table. Some Judges haven't looked at my dog side on yet but come straight up to her in the front as I'm stacking her. She even jumped up and licked one judge in the face once as she came in and spoke real cutsie to her and being a Cavalier she decided it was necessary to be cutsie back!

I think it happens when the Judges have lots of dogs to get through and want to keep things moving along.

Oooh yes this happened to me with Magic. The judge bent over him (stacked on the table) and made cutesy kissy noises, and he gently stood up on his back legs to give her a kiss, and she told him off

[Tambaqui]

Most judges I've had were pretty good and waited until I stacked my dog.

However I had a judge who waited at the end of the table with her hand on the table almost in the way of me stacking my dog!

I was a little annoyed as my dog got unsettled and wouldn't stand still because the judge was quite close to him.

Too bad I couldn't say "Move back please!"

[ellz]

I had a dog ruined for the show ring because of a pushy judge.

She was young and unsettled and suddenly, this very tall man wearing a hat appeared from out of the corner of her eye and she freaked. Then to make matters worse, he reefed the hat off and threw it down on the table behind her. From that time on, she had a table phobia AND a male judge phobia.

The argument could of course be that she should have better temperament initially....but at 5 months of age, they're still learning where to put their feet, let alone where their brains should be in the ring.

And then of course, if you search back in this forum, you can read about my battles with a young dog who had the wits scared out of him by an Indian judge at Brisbane Royal when he insisted upon judging the table dogs on the ground and loomed over, and scared the willy off my young dog to the point where he would wet himself when a (dark) male judge or anything resembling one tried to go near him.

Thankfully, he came right and is not only a Royal BOB winner but is titled....but it took a LOT of work to get his confidence back.

I really think that some of the problem is that many judges no longer exhibit and they have forgotten what it is like.

[Turkey Trip]

As an exhibitor I would prefer a judge to give me a moment to stand my exhibit up (a table breed) so that I can give them the correct outline for the breed.

When judging, I preferred to allow exhibitors time to stand their dogs up (ground or table) as this is the best time to form an impression of the dog's correct (or not) outline for its breed, its head planes, its length and set-on of neck which also indicates lay of shoulder, point of withers, forechest depth and shape, and topline, croup, tailset. Overall balance and angulation can be seen (non coated breed) or estimated (coated), the latter requiring confirmation by hands-on examination. (Hands on examination confirms what the eye has already seen and adds details such as foot shape, head proportions, eye colour, bite, earset, rib spring and depth/length of ribbing:loin, elbow set, temperament etc.)

If a judge pounces immediately upon my exhibit prior to being given a chance to set it up and show its conformation and true outline, I just assume they are not interested in my breed and thus respect them rather less.

Judges can and will chose to use whatever methods of examination they prefer, but if they pounce straight on my dog without bothering to even take a look at it stacked, - I assume they are not really interested in my breed and its doubtful they will see me ever again.

[whippets]

Most judges I've had were pretty good and waited until I stacked my dog.

However I had a judge who waited at the end of the table with her hand on the table almost in the way of me stacking my dog!

I was a little annoyed as my dog got unsettled and wouldn't stand still because the judge was quite close to him.

Too bad I couldn't say "Move back please!"

I had that with a judge holding onto the table alot. I think without the table she would have fallen over. The poor old dear. She reminded me of "grandma yetta" from the t.v. show "the nanny"