Simply Grand Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) I was at the dog park quite late tonight and it ended up being just Saxon and me, and another lady and her 5 month old GSD. They came over and the dogs had a bit of a play. The GSD was very playful and quite rough but Saxon seemed happy to have a play, he was actively joining in and his tail was up and wagging. Then the GSD bit Saxon, it was in play but was hard enough to make Saxon yelp in pain or fear or both - it wasn't his usual little "hey don't step on me" yip. He also dropped down on his tummy. I thought that would be enough to make the other dog pause at least, so that his owner, or I if necessary, could grab him. Instead he went for Saxon again and pinned him down with his mouth on Saxon's back. Saxon was yelping and trying to get up and away but when he realized he couldn't he went on the attack. It really shocked me actually, he was barking (not yapping, full on barking) in the other dog's face ready to fight. The GSD backed away and Saxon ran to me. I thought that would be it but the other dog ran over before his owner could grab him and started snapping at Saxon again. I try not to pick Saxon up when other dogs are around, if he's scared I just pat him and talk in a calm but happy voice telling him he's fine, but this time I grabbed him and lifted him up. The other dog kept biting at him, and got him a couple of times, including grabbing his tail when I had Saxon up above my head to try and keep him out of reach. He also scratched my chest when he put his paws on me, and JUST missed my lip - I felt his teeth graze me. The owner was running around trying to grab him while this was happening but having a lot of trouble getting him under control. Eventually she got him and they left. I checked Saxon over and he was fine, we had a bit more of a walk around and a play and he was his normal self. It was my own fault that this happened, I'd felt uncomfortable with the roughness of the playing from the beginning and i just didn't feel like this other owner was quite in control of her dog. Saxon often plays with bigger dogs and I likethat because I wan him to be relaxed and not fearful around all dogs, and I don't want to be a small dog owner who freaks out whenever a big dog goes near hers, but next time I will definitely trust my instincts! Thanks for letting me get that out! Any opinions are welcome, but please, I'm not looking for a lecture on how bad dog parks are Edited April 22, 2010 by Saxonpup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mas1981 Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Wow what a scary experience, and good that you let him play right after the attack so that he is not scared at that park. We have had a nasty incident with a GSD that was offlead at the local park ( the owner walks him around the whole neighbourhood offlead) lucky the dog had a muzzle on or my dog would have been more hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 yes that sounds a scary experience...I have a medium sized dog, but i still worry when he plays with the bigger GSD's and mastifs etc. What i do when he plays is basically follow him around, soon as the other dog looks like its excitement is too high (high excitement leads to aggression) i pull the other dog off, if the other dog keeps coming back i do body blocks..as in I get between the other dog and mine. by this time normally the dog loses interest or the owner calls them off...else we leave the park. Sounds like you're situation was scary enough, but if the dog wasnt in attack mode as it approached i think I would have been more inclined to grab its collar and drag it bak to the owner, than to pick mine up. Just some ideas for if you ever find yourself in another situation like that...hope you dont though Hope you and you're little friend dont lose any confidence next time you go to play. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 Thanks for the replies guys, I'll respond properly tomorrow on the computer, I'm on the iPhone now. Just a note, please don't anyone think I'm saying that the breed of either dog had anything to do with this. I mentioned GSD purely for the size comparison but realised I should have also said that Saxon is a toy poodle x Maltese of around 5kgs. You may have realised he was small from me lfting him over my head (I'm not that strong!) but just wanted to be clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adnil444 Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I was at the dog park quite late tonight and it ended up being just Saxon and me, and another lady and her 5 month old GSD. They came over and the dogs had a bit of a play. The GSD was very playful and quite rough but Saxon seemed happy to have a play, he was actively joining in and his tail was up and wagging. Then the GSD bit Saxon, it was in play but was hard enough to make Saxon yelp in pain or fear or both - it wasn't his usual little "hey don't step on me" yip. He also dropped down on his tummy. I thought that would be enough to make the other dog pause at least, so that his owner, or I if necessary, could grab him. Instead he went for Saxon again and pinned him down with his mouth on Saxon's back. Saxon was yelping and trying to get up and away but when he realized he couldn't he went on the attack. It really shocked me actually, he was barking (not yapping, full on barking) in the other dog's face ready to fight. The GSD backed away and Saxon ran to me. I thought that would be it but the other dog ran over before his owner could grab him and started snapping at Saxon again. I try not to pick Saxon up when other dogs are around, if he's scared I just pat him and talk in a calm but happy voice telling him he's fine, but this time I grabbed him and lifted him up. The other dog kept biting at him, and got him a couple of times, including grabbing his tail when I had Saxon up above my head to try and keep him out of reach. He also scratched my chest when he put his paws on me, and JUST missed my lip - I felt his teeth graze me. The owner was running around trying to grab him while this was happening but having a lot of trouble getting him under control. Eventually she got him and they left. I checked Saxon over and he was fine, we had a bit more of a walk around and a play and he was his normal self. It was my own fault that this happened, I'd felt uncomfortable with the roughness of the playing from the beginning and i just didn't feel like this other owner was quite in control of her dog. Saxon often plays with bigger dogs and I likethat because I wan him to be relaxed and not fearful around all dogs, and I don't want to be a small dog owner who freaks out whenever a big dog goes near hers, but next time I will definitely trust my instincts! Thanks for letting me get that out! Any opinions are welcome, but please, I'm not looking for a lecture on how bad dog parks are :D j Poor Saxon, I hope he is ok and not traumatised by this experience, and you too, it would have been very scary - though you seem like such a good owner and know what to do, that I think he will be fine. Gut instincts are good in lots of situations and I usually go with mine too. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Glad to hear you are both ok, sounds like a dominance thing to me, if the other dog had wanted to he would have hurt your pup. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I go to off leash parks all the time. I have a tiny, tiny back yard so my dog needs to run. Mine are also small (~10kgs) so I don't let them play with larger dogs or dogs that have very different playing styles (eg dogs who like wrestling, my boy loves to run and be chased). Most of the time I only let him play with dogs that I know or dogs that are smaller enough for me to physically stop them if things turn nasty. I honestly believe that while some large dogs may play well with small ones, it isn't worth the risk unless I know them very well. I wouldn't imagine that a GSD and a toy poodle have similar playing styles anyway. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but I wouldn't risk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Thanks for the replies guys, I'll respond properly tomorrow on the computer, I'm on the iPhone now. Just a note, please don't anyone think I'm saying that the breed of either dog had anything to do with this. I mentioned GSD purely for the size comparison but realised I should have also said that Saxon is a toy poodle x Maltese of around 5kgs. You may have realised he was small from me lfting him over my head (I'm not that strong!) but just wanted to be clear. SP, many poodle (and GSD) people will tell you that the two breeds don't mix well. I think the very great differences in their body languages don't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILK Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I guess this is a good learning curve for you. Your dog may now react to rude dog behaviour and unfortunately as soon as there is a reaction a fight can break out. If I was you I would keep a very close eye on your dogs body language. I hope this experience doesn't have a negative impact for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Sounds very similar to something that happened to me. I made several mistakes in quick succession that resulted in me holding my little corgi up above my head and pushing a very excited, large bully breed off me repeatedly. I think it is often a mistake to lift small dogs up, but sometimes it's better than leaving them down. I usually try to fend the other dogs off. Erik makes it easy because when he needs a break he crawls between my legs. He is a tough little bastard, though, and doesn't often need a break! I do love having the Ruff Wear harnesses with a handle on the back. They are very handy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottychick Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Glad your poor wee doggy was okay and I really hope this doesn't alter his behaviour! BTW - your post wasn't long LOL Have you seen any of my rants? I'm like Ms Verbose :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the replies guys, I'll respond properly tomorrow on the computer, I'm on the iPhone now. Just a note, please don't anyone think I'm saying that the breed of either dog had anything to do with this. I mentioned GSD purely for the size comparison but realised I should have also said that Saxon is a toy poodle x Maltese of around 5kgs. You may have realised he was small from me lfting him over my head (I'm not that strong!) but just wanted to be clear. SP, many poodle (and GSD) people will tell you that the two breeds don't mix well. I think the very great differences in their body languages don't help. Can you explain the differences of body language in more detail of both the breeds as to why they are different to standard caniine body language? Edited April 21, 2010 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) I'd stay away from any prey driven breed given that you have a squeaky, small fluffy dog. Personally, I steer clear of GSD's, Rotties, all bull breeds and ACD's. It's nothing personal but playing easily goes from fun to disastrous within seconds. I get that people pick their little fluffies up too much but if you ever feel he is in danger you need to throw all that out that window and do as you did last night, pick your dog up and turn around. Edited April 21, 2010 by Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the replies guys, I'll respond properly tomorrow on the computer, I'm on the iPhone now. Just a note, please don't anyone think I'm saying that the breed of either dog had anything to do with this. I mentioned GSD purely for the size comparison but realised I should have also said that Saxon is a toy poodle x Maltese of around 5kgs. You may have realised he was small from me lfting him over my head (I'm not that strong!) but just wanted to be clear. SP, many poodle (and GSD) people will tell you that the two breeds don't mix well. I think the very great differences in their body languages don't help. Can you explain the differences of body language in more detail of both the breeds as to why they are different to standard caniine body language? GSD.. pricked ears, low set and carried tail unless highly aroused, capable of displaying distinct piloerection. This is close to standard. Poodle, Drop ears, very upright head/neck carriage, erect tail (sign of dominance in many breeds) and a coat that cannot display piloerection. Significant variations from standard. A poodle cannot pull its ears back in submission/appeasement in a manner a prick eared dog would easily read. I have had a number of GSD folk tell me that their dogs don't react well to Spitz's either. GSD/Sibe interactions were quoted as frequently problematic. Tails carried upright or over the back seem to be read by some GSDs as threat displays. On aggression incidents involving actual contact with my poodles 3/3 dogs involved have been GSDs. At least one may have been a prey response but I can assure you that one most definitely wasn't. If you want another example of how we've modified dogs so that they have issues with body language, talk to Boxer people. Boxer facial expression resembles a constant hard stare and many dogs seem to respond aggressively. I recall seeing a documentary that looked at how selective breeding had modified dogs ability to display 'normal' body language. The researchers noted 25 different head/facial expressions in wolves that have been reduced to two in the CKCS. Edited April 21, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Mine found spitzes hard to deal with at first, and I've also noticed that while they are fine wtih most herding breeds, border collies can set them off. I've theorised that it's the "eye" with a border collie, and the prick ears and fluffy coat on the spitzes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 If you want another example of how we've modified dogs so that they have issues with body language, talk to Boxer people. Their facial expression seems to be a constant hard stare and many dogs seem to respond aggressively. British Bulldogs too! The breeder of my girl said to be careful of her with other dogs as different breeds often react to the Bulldog jaw and noises. When I first brought Mildred home my Rotti was terrified of her for about two weeks as her jaw protruded which showed her teeth and she had loud growly breathing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) Mine found spitzes hard to deal with at first, and I've also noticed that while they are fine wtih most herding breeds, border collies can set them off. I've theorised that it's the "eye" with a border collie, and the prick ears and fluffy coat on the spitzes. I've had more than a few BC folk tell me their dogs don't like Boxers. The eyes seem to be the issue. Normal spitz tail carriage would be a sign of high levels of arousal in many other breeds. You can't read piloerection on Spitzs either. ETA: All of this is one reason why I'd always suggest folk do their dog training and socialisation around as many different breeds as possible. Edited April 21, 2010 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 My JRT seems to have issues with mini poodles, but she was poorly socialised as a pup (due to a lack of dogs to socialise her with and a place in which to do it not due to my own laziness) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clastic Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 That sounds like a very scary experience, I'm really glad that the both of you are OK. :nahnah: *BIG HUGS* from Mars and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 As an owner of Samoyeds I know only too well how badly some dogs react to the curled tail, pricked ears and large fluffed coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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