Rspca Shelters In Uk To Turn Away Unwanted Pets And Strays

[Chocolatelover]

This is where you and I obviously differ Steve - I would count this as standing up for someone.

"How truly sad - lets hope the poor woman was able to find a new home too. Why didnt they just help her so she can still be with her animals? If anyone ever sees anything like this please contact pacers before the RSPCA."

[Steve]

This is where you and I obviously differ Steve - I would count this as standing up for someone.

"How truly sad - lets hope the poor woman was able to find a new home too. Why didnt they just help her so she can still be with her animals? If anyone ever sees anything like this please contact pacers before the RSPCA."

Are you saying that you don't think its sad that someone could be in this position ? Homeless and trying to keep hold of their animals? Are you saying it makes sense to take someone to court to punish them when you have already punished them more than many of us who love our animals could imagine when she got into this spot because she was destitute and poverty stricken - to fine her $5000 when she has nothing ?

Well I think its sad and if I had been told about her plight I would have looked after her animals and helped her find someplace to live and supported her so her animals didn't suffer and if you call that standing up for her I guess I have to say I'm proud of the fact that these days in my daily life because of MDBA Pacers I get to see the results of what happens when you help someone to look after their animals rather than ruin their lives to go after a court appearance when they hit hard times.

[Chocolatelover]

I have now lost all faith in our legal system since they get so many judgements wrong

[Souff]

Scouff - you clearly implied that the staff somehow take pleasure from putting animals to sleep. That is what I objected to and think is extremely unfair and disrespectful to the people that have to do this every day. I think that was a very low comment.

Chocolatelover,

That is how you interpreted it. I was actually thinking that they would be BORED because there wouldn't be any animals coming in.

More than bored actually, probably fearing that they would get retrenched.

Souff

[Chocolatelover]

This is where you and I obviously differ Steve - I would count this as standing up for someone.

"How truly sad - lets hope the poor woman was able to find a new home too. Why didnt they just help her so she can still be with her animals? If anyone ever sees anything like this please contact pacers before the RSPCA."

Are you saying that you don't think its sad that someone could be in this position ? Homeless and trying to keep hold of their animals? Are you saying it makes sense to take someone to court to punish them when you have already punished them more than many of us who love our animals could imagine when she got into this spot because she was destitute and poverty stricken - to fine her $5000 when she has nothing ?

Well I think its sad and if I had been told about her plight I would have looked after her animals and helped her find someplace to live and supported her so her animals didn't suffer and if you call that standing up for her I guess I have to say I'm proud of the fact that these days in my daily life because of MDBA Pacers I get to see the results of what happens when you help someone to look after their animals rather than ruin their lives to go after a court appearance when they hit hard times.

The job of the court is to make a judgement based on the evidence presented and to punish accordingly. Do you think the RSPCA should be allowed to say "she broke the law but she's had a hard time of late so lets overlook that she deprived her animals of the basic necessities of life"?

What of a person who beats and tortures his dog BUT was abused as a child and now has serious issues? Should we not take him to court either? I am pretty sure that judges study for a long, long time to earn the right to decide the fate of people who break the law. Don't think I can say the same for everyone who works for the RSPCA.

The court takes circumstances into account and hence some people get suspended sentences, community services and/or fines. She was lucky she didn't go to jail - I think they were lenient.

Sorry, have gone off topic.

MY ONLY POINT IS THAT NOT EVERYTHING CAN BE BLAMED SOLELY ON THE RSPCA.

[Souff]

Sorry, it was sarcasm Just thought I'd jump in and blame the RSPCA to save everyone else from doing it.

Oh dear .... the sky is not going to fall in CL, it really isnt.

[Souff]

Do you think the RSPCA should be allowed to say "she broke the law but she's had a hard time of late so lets overlook that she deprived her animals of the basic necessities of life"?

Well, that is often what happens in courts when children get neglected while parents are breaking the law, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Am not saying it is right, but that is how it often is.

Souff

[Chocolatelover]

Sorry, it was sarcasm Just thought I'd jump in and blame the RSPCA to save everyone else from doing it.

Oh dear .... the sky is not going to fall in CL, it really isnt.

And the RSPCA is not going to destroy the world, it really isn't.

And I fail to see what staff morale has to do with boredom????????

Morale is an intangible term used for the capacity of people to maintain belief in an institution or a goal, or even in oneself and others. You questioned what would happen to staff morale if there were no animals to PTS.

I can only respond to what is written, not what you were actually thinking when you wrote it.

[Souff]

What of a person who beats and tortures his dog BUT was abused as a child and now has serious issues? Should we not take him to court either? I am pretty sure that judges study for a long, long time to earn the right to decide the fate of people who break the law. Don't think I can say the same for everyone who works for the RSPCA.

Judges have earned the right to sit on the bench. Why would anyone working at the RSPCA need to be equally qualified?

It is not their role to be judge and jury, but it is their role to prevent cruelty to animals and the very best way I can think of is to get out there and EDUCATE people to be better animal carers, not terrify the bejesus out of little old ladies when they take a de-barked dog to a dog show. The other critical role I see is to do more about the cause of the unwanted dogs and pups - put some of the money into mobile desexing clinics.

If organisations can do it in third world countries and outback Australia, it can be done anywhere, and it is a most commendable investment of finite resources, particularly the donations that people give in good faith, thinking that they are HELPING the animals.

Souff

[Souff]

Oh dear .... the sky is not going to fall in CL, it really isnt.

And the RSPCA is not going to destroy the world, it really isn't.

Are you sure?

[Souff]

And I fail to see what staff morale has to do with boredom????????

Boredom and fear make people very down in the mouth. Downright miserable actually. Busy people are happy people - well most of em.

[Chocolatelover]

Oh dear .... the sky is not going to fall in CL, it really isnt.

And the RSPCA is not going to destroy the world, it really isn't.

Are you sure?

OK I concede defeat. I'm well and truly outnumbered and not making many friends (RSPCA might give me a job though). Maybe I should have joined an extremist animal activist forum - I think I was accused of wanting to end pet ownership in another thread My OH is so embarrassed by me he threatened to disconnect our internet and said if I told one more person why buying certified organic free range eggs was so important he was leaving me I am honestly going to try harder to keep my mouth shut

I honestly know the RSPCA do some crazy things. Just recently up here in North Qld they tried to take a horse off a lady who had fostered her and nursed her back to health, saying she owed them money or something. The media got hold of it and they backed off I think. But I think they do do the occasional good thing amidst it all and some shelters in particular are trying to make a difference. In all honesty, I think more qualifications should be required for the people that work there rather than just being an "animal lover". Then again, maybe they do - I just don't get that impression.

Think I should get some sleep now :D

[Souff]

Oh dear .... the sky is not going to fall in CL, it really isnt.

And the RSPCA is not going to destroy the world, it really isn't.

Are you sure?

OK I concede defeat. I'm well and truly outnumbered and not making many friends (RSPCA might give me a job though). Maybe I should have joined an extremist animal activist forum - I think I was accused of wanting to end pet ownership in another thread My OH is so embarrassed by me he threatened to disconnect our internet and said if I told one more person why buying certified organic free range eggs was so important he was leaving me I am honestly going to try harder to keep my mouth shut :D

I honestly know the RSPCA do some crazy things. Just recently up here in North Qld they tried to take a horse off a lady who had fostered her and nursed her back to health, saying she owed them money or something. The media got hold of it and they backed off I think. But I think they do do the occasional good thing amidst it all and some shelters in particular are trying to make a difference. In all honesty, I think more qualifications should be required for the people that work there rather than just being an "animal lover". Then again, maybe they do - I just don't get that impression.

Think I should get some sleep now

Oh no, defeat is such a negative word! It knocks morale totally.....

Enjoy those organic free range eggs, they ARE good for you.

And remember the Desiderata .... despite all the turmoil, the world is still a beautiful place. As long we have our dogs

Sleep needed here too ....

[Steve]

This is where you and I obviously differ Steve - I would count this as standing up for someone.

"How truly sad - lets hope the poor woman was able to find a new home too. Why didnt they just help her so she can still be with her animals? If anyone ever sees anything like this please contact pacers before the RSPCA."

Are you saying that you don't think its sad that someone could be in this position ? Homeless and trying to keep hold of their animals? Are you saying it makes sense to take someone to court to punish them when you have already punished them more than many of us who love our animals could imagine when she got into this spot because she was destitute and poverty stricken - to fine her $5000 when she has nothing ?

Well I think its sad and if I had been told about her plight I would have looked after her animals and helped her find someplace to live and supported her so her animals didn't suffer and if you call that standing up for her I guess I have to say I'm proud of the fact that these days in my daily life because of MDBA Pacers I get to see the results of what happens when you help someone to look after their animals rather than ruin their lives to go after a court appearance when they hit hard times.

The job of the court is to make a judgement based on the evidence presented and to punish accordingly. Do you think the RSPCA should be allowed to say "she broke the law but she's had a hard time of late so lets overlook that she deprived her animals of the basic necessities of life"?

What of a person who beats and tortures his dog BUT was abused as a child and now has serious issues? Should we not take him to court either? I am pretty sure that judges study for a long, long time to earn the right to decide the fate of people who break the law. Don't think I can say the same for everyone who works for the RSPCA.

The court takes circumstances into account and hence some people get suspended sentences, community services and/or fines. She was lucky she didn't go to jail - I think they were lenient.

Sorry, have gone off topic.

MY ONLY POINT IS THAT NOT EVERYTHING CAN BE BLAMED SOLELY ON THE RSPCA.

Yes she was lucky she didn't go to gaol,yes something needed to be done,yes she was guilty of neglecting her animals,yes the RSPCA needed to take action and yes the courts make decisions based on whether laws were broken and hand down punishments.That doesn't alter the fact that I think its sad and if that is perceived as me standing up for the person who is in this position rather than me saying I would prefer to take action and help people in this position before the RSPCA has to step in so please if you hear of anyone in this spot to call MDBA Pacers so we can stop animals suffering before it becomes a punishment situation then clearly I am not communicating what Im trying to say.

We hear of a woman who is calling around her neighbours and friends begging for any old food they may have because she has had a shattering experience [an accident] and she cant afford to feed her animals.When we met her the dogs were clearly malnourished and the place was a mess.No doubt about it if the RSPCA had of been standing where we were the dogs would have been seized and she would have been charged. We did what was needed to ensure the dogs would be looked after and offered counselling services to her to help her to see her alternatives.

We fed her dogs for 12 weeks, we cleaned her house and yards - once we had the place clean again she was O.K. about other welfare agencies coming in to give her a hand with cleaning and daily chores while she put her life back together. We worked with her to help her to see what she could take control of and how to change things. We helped her to put a business plan together and start her own home based business and 6 months later her life is better than ever and her dogs are happy and healthy and still living with her. She now repays us with help in fundraising and spreading teh word about who we are.

Is this standing up for the owner - it probably is but our goal was to ensure that we found the best outcome for the sake of the animals. In this case we felt helping the owner was the best way of doing that. Sometimes we have to say the best thing is to find a new home for them but when we do that we give the owner the ability to be involved in the re homing process and put systems in place to be sure its not just a bandaid solution for the sake of the current animals but also any in future.

Im not talking about people who deliberately hurt and torture their animals Im talking about people who are in trouble and thats what I felt was the case with a homeless woman who was in over her head trying to hang on to her animals rather than have them surrendered and lost to her forever. I still think its sad.

[Chocolatelover]

You still miss the point. Instead of ranting about the RSPCA, why weren't people ranting about the callousness of society and our lack of compassion for our neighbours? Why weren't they flaming her friends and family for abandoning her in her time of need? Because they were too busy with the RSPCA. (Who are about animals not humans).

The two scenarios are miles apart. One asked for help and tried to feed her animals anyway she could. One looked them in a cage to burn in their own urine and didn't even give them water. How can these two situations be compared?

I say it again (and again) my argument is only with the fact that people are unable to see past their hatred for the RSPCA to have any kind of rational discussion. I am not putting them on a pedastal, not supporting everything they do but they simply cannot be blamed for every wrong the world.

[fifi]

What is very sad, there are many little country town branches of the rspca who are total legends, they work tirelessly in rescue and often struggle to get support from the parent body.

Chocolatelover, you say "my argument is only with the fact that people are unable to see past their hatred for the RSPCA to have any kind of rational discussion."

but earlier in this discusion I said the above quote. There are rspca workers who work at the coalface of rescue and are there for the animals, What worries many of us however, is the agenda at management level.

And as for animal rights, dont think that because I oppose many rspca actions that I don't support animal rights - I've been involved in the anti-vivisection movement, anti-battery farm, I'm a vegetarian and avid proponent of conservation. I just want to pursue my passion for my dogs without unfounded persecution.

fifi

[~Anne~]

You still miss the point. Instead of ranting about the RSPCA, why weren't people ranting about the callousness of society and our lack of compassion for our neighbours? Why weren't they flaming her friends and family for abandoning her in her time of need? Because they were too busy with the RSPCA. (Who are about animals not humans).

The two scenarios are miles apart. One asked for help and tried to feed her animals anyway she could. One looked them in a cage to burn in their own urine and didn't even give them water. How can these two situations be compared?

I say it again (and again) my argument is only with the fact that people are unable to see past their hatred for the RSPCA to have any kind of rational discussion. I am not putting them on a pedastal, not supporting everything they do but they simply cannot be blamed for every wrong the world.

Yes, I totally agree with this statement.

I am a fence sitter with the issue of the RSPCA. I acknowledge there are issues, but I am also not afraid to acknowledge the good they do.

[tarope]

R$PCA UK murdered 12 GSD's with a bolt gun, enraged the whole country. A person from GSD rescue UK said the R$PCA didn't even try to find homes or even contact them. So not taking in strays doesn't surprise anyone.

Here the R$PCA do the same thing and worse, remember Clifford the Pitbull so whats new. :D The R$PCA don't care what people think as long as the money flows in their sweet.

R$PCA for all creatures great and small, what a bloody joke.

[Steve]

You still miss the point. Instead of ranting about the RSPCA, why weren't people ranting about the callousness of society and our lack of compassion for our neighbours? Why weren't they flaming her friends and family for abandoning her in her time of need? Because they were too busy with the RSPCA. (Who are about animals not humans).

The two scenarios are miles apart. One asked for help and tried to feed her animals anyway she could. One looked them in a cage to burn in their own urine and didn't even give them water. How can these two situations be compared?

I say it again (and again) my argument is only with the fact that people are unable to see past their hatred for the RSPCA to have any kind of rational discussion. I am not putting them on a pedastal, not supporting everything they do but they simply cannot be blamed for every wrong the world.

I wasn't ranting about the RSPCA in that thread I said it was sad and that if anyone found anyone in this situation to call us.I was referring to a callous society and a lack of compassion and I offered an alternative. I have no hatred for the RSPCA. In fact I have a very good relationship with people who are pretty high up in the RSPCA in 4 states and work with some who are employed by them. I would hope that the MDBA Pacers would continue to work with them and support each other in what each of us does. Of course they cant be blamed for every wrong in the world but sometimes how one of their employees react to a wrong is in my opinion debatable. My issues are with state laws and the system.

[Steve]

You still miss the point. Instead of ranting about the RSPCA, why weren't people ranting about the callousness of society and our lack of compassion for our neighbours? Why weren't they flaming her friends and family for abandoning her in her time of need? Because they were too busy with the RSPCA. (Who are about animals not humans).

The two scenarios are miles apart. One asked for help and tried to feed her animals anyway she could. One looked them in a cage to burn in their own urine and didn't even give them water. How can these two situations be compared?

I say it again (and again) my argument is only with the fact that people are unable to see past their hatred for the RSPCA to have any kind of rational discussion. I am not putting them on a pedastal, not supporting everything they do but they simply cannot be blamed for every wrong the world.

Yes, I totally agree with this statement.

I am a fence sitter with the issue of the RSPCA. I acknowledge there are issues, but I am also not afraid to acknowledge the good they do.

I think we're all doing pretty well here having a rational discussion and Im certainly not afraid to acknowledge the good they do but surely that doesn't mean that we have no right to speak of the things we think they muck up.

The minute anything is said -because some have made up their mind that open discussion which doesn't support something they have done equals a hatred for them - we get bogged into "you have nothing to say I'm interested in because you hate them"

Chocolatelover can tell us about a case which may have meant they had done something they shouldn't re a rescue horse and thats O.K. because we don't think she hates the RSPCA but if I bring a news story here and don't even make a comment on it I hate the RSPCA even though over and over I say I don't and I support them in what they do - just not all some of them do. And I know there is no point in going after them because its the system that needs the reform. No matter which group was elected to be a quasi police force with no adequate safety to ensure people are treated justly over any area of society, no matter whether they do a great job or not I would not make donations to them and I would watch them for evidence of corruption or injustice to try to push for law reform because its a flawed system.

Some of us are more exposed to more cases because of the area we work or play in - just because someone knows of more instances that doesn't necessarily mean what they have to say is untrue or not rational.