Crisovar Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Its been said in past threads that GSDs cannot run, are falling down blah blah etc - I accept you don't find the look of the GSD's back end pleasing Tollersowned, but did you find this to be the case over the weekend? That the GSD as a breed is unsound? I have previously said in this thread that I don't like how they look, I prefer "moderate" looking dogs nothing that is overly exaggerated. Don't deny that. It can be found in GSDs, just obviously not at a National. Too be honest I stayed only half an hour both days because I couldn't stand it anymore. What is the point of the dog being able to run if they can't even stand without hocks touching or being able to walk normally? Wouldn't say the GSD breed as a whole are unsound, certainly some specific lines aren't helping the breed at all and IMO some of those lines are what I saw on the weekend. I didn't go to the show with an preconceived ideas about the breed, I have no experience in the breed, but I certainly left with the knowledge that I would never own a specialty bred GSD. Half an hour and you make a call like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I was there on Sunday and saw the end of the Open bitch and all of open dog. There was some dogs of dubious quality and tempermant around. But the winners I saw were very nice dogs, I also do not like the greatly exagerated back, but I feel there were more dogs with better toplines than when I attended a GSD Speciality 2 years ago. Fellow DOLer Kujo got 8th in Open dog, not bad fora 2.5 year old lad Tollersowned come over to the white side. Despite LMWS thoughts of horror I took Zarah along and she was well recieved and made some friends by being her usaal kiss me kiss self. One person did say to BBJ that she looks nothing like a shepherd. :rainbowbridge: Perhaps he needed to put his specs on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bronson Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 (edited) but it's only you're opinion that those dogs being beaten are of better quality - I thought I made it very clear that just because someone dislikes something or thinks something else is better, doesn't mean that is the case! A GSD show according to the German SV regulations is a conformation display of working dogs. In order to qualify into a show, the dog has to gain a working title to confirm it's compliance with the breed standard's working quality. Untitled dogs regardless of conformation excellence cannot be shown or bred. Obviously a GSD that possess limited working ability cannot be regarded as good example of the breed, and the reproduction of inferior traits will naturally reduce the future quality of the breed. An example in Open Dog is the 25th place of Enzor vom Tamaraspitze SchH2 who has passed the required workability testing with the appropriate titles to qualify for showing and breeding. This dog should never be beaten by untitled dogs that may have no confirmed working ability whatsoever or possibly unsound in temperament. Although working titles are not a show or breeding requirement in Australia, it is the rules of the breed for maintaining breed quality which IMO should be taken into account first and foremost. Too many poor quality GSD's are bred on the basis of show results from parents incapable of gaining working titles which ultimately should never have been used for reproduction. Edited May 5, 2010 by Black Bronson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I'm well aware of the German SV regulations Black Bronson however you've just stated that working titles are NOT a show or breeding requirement in Australia... Last I checked we're all living in Australia, yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Black Bronson - Check your Globe, we are not in Germany, in no show is it a pre-requisite for a dog to have a working title to be shown. Just because a dog has a working title does not make it a better dog. and as Aziah stated everyone has differing opinions and personal preferences A dog may have a working title but does not anatomically meet the breed standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuilos Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 One person did say to BBJ that she looks nothing like a shepherd. :rainbowbridge:Perhaps he needed to put his specs on. I'm sure her Mummy and Daddy would be shocked to hear that she doesn't look like a shepherd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Half an hour and you make a call like that. Make a call like what? You can see alot of dogs in half an hour (well an hour if you want to include both days ) Especially when you see things you really don't like and move straight on. Tollersowned come over to the white side. :D :p Mmm tempting, very tempting. I've always liked the whites. Is there any shows coming up (in Victoria) that there will be alot of them at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bronson Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I'm well aware of the German SV regulations Black Bronson however you've just stated that working titles are NOT a show or breeding requirement in Australia...Last I checked we're all living in Australia, yeah? My point is, the integrity of the breed in Australia is not in good hands after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bronson Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Black Bronson - Check your Globe, we are not in Germany, in no show is it a pre-requisite for a dog to have a working title to be shown. Just because a dog has a working title does not make it a better dog. and as Aziah stated everyone has differing opinions and personal preferences A dog may have a working title but does not anatomically meet the breed standard. A champion dog should meet the full criteria and more importantly given that the breed is a working dog, great conformation in a dog lacking the genetics to work is no champion GSD and should never be rated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 My point is, the integrity of the breed in Australia is not in good hands after all :D A champion dog should meet the full criteria and more importantly given that the breed is a working dog, great conformation in a dog lacking the genetics to work is no champion GSD and should never be rated as such. ...and again, in YOUR opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shepherd~ Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 (edited) Half an hour and you make a call like that. Make a call like what? You can see alot of dogs in half an hour (well an hour if you want to include both days :D) Especially when you see things you really don't like and move straight on. Tollersowned come over to the white side. :D :D :D Mmm tempting, very tempting. I've always liked the whites. Is there any shows coming up (in Victoria) that there will be alot of them at? I have a Whitey and she is the most fantastic dog. I thought there was a show in October, but I cant find it on the website now. That is the White Swiss Shepherd Dog site. The National show is in NSW this year. THere is a White Shepherd meet in Victoria every month and the next one is the Millon Paws Walk. There will be two Whities at Kepala on Sunday, mine and Bilbos. I also live next door to a Whitie, so you can visit me and my neighbour and Bilbo on a weekend and cop 3 bitches, I have the long coat and the other 2 are shorties :D Edited May 5, 2010 by Chewbacca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 My point is, the integrity of the breed in Australia is not in good hands after all :D A champion dog should meet the full criteria and more importantly given that the breed is a working dog, great conformation in a dog lacking the genetics to work is no champion GSD and should never be rated as such. ...and again, in YOUR opinion Isn't that what the opinion of any GSD Club/Org/Breeder would/should aspire to though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Pixie* Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 (edited) What they aspire to isn't really the point - on THAT DAY they were judged on conformation only. Whether they had working titles or not wasn't taken into consideration any more than it is in any OTHER conformation show. Black_Bronson was complaining that a working titled dog was placed further down the field. Well, they weren't judging on working ability, it's a conformation show! As mentioned, we aren't in Germany...... Edited May 5, 2010 by *Pixie* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arawnhaus Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 (edited) Black Bronson - Check your Globe, we are not in Germany, in no show is it a pre-requisite for a dog to have a working title to be shown. Just because a dog has a working title does not make it a better dog. :p and as Aziah stated everyone has differing opinions and personal preferences :pA dog may have a working title but does not anatomically meet the breed standard. A champion dog should meet the full criteria and more importantly given that the breed is a working dog, great conformation in a dog lacking the genetics to work is no champion GSD and should never be rated as such. Edited May 5, 2010 by arawnhaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bronson Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 My point is, the integrity of the breed in Australia is not in good hands after all :p A champion dog should meet the full criteria and more importantly given that the breed is a working dog, great conformation in a dog lacking the genetics to work is no champion GSD and should never be rated as such. ...and again, in YOUR opinion No, it's not my opinion, it's the opinion of the German SV which I agree. The SV which evolved from the breed's creators have a whole lot more experience in the requirements of breeding to the standards than we do in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bronson Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 What they aspire to isn't really the point - on THAT DAY they were judged on conformation only. Whether they had working titles or not wasn't taken into consideration any more than it is in any OTHER conformation show. Black_Bronson was complaining that a working titled dog was placed further down the field. Well, they weren't judging on working ability, it's a conformation show!As mentioned, we aren't in Germany...... Not operating under German rule is nothing to be proud of, as the detriment of doing so produces poor quality dogs. The Australian system provides no quality control of maintaining the working genetics of a working dog and therefore provides the foundation not to improve the breed but to make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 Black Bronson is this your opinion or just an excuse of why your dog/s don't conform to the current breed standard anatomically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 (edited) Black Bronson is this your opinion or just an excuse of why your dog/s don't conform to the current breed standard anatomically IMO it's both Pockets - but you see, there's that thing called personal opinion again! Dogs are judged as they are on the day, not how they looked or what they did last week or what they might look like or do tomorrow! Edited May 6, 2010 by Aziah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonasche Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 (edited) What they aspire to isn't really the point - on THAT DAY they were judged on conformation only. Whether they had working titles or not wasn't taken into consideration any more than it is in any OTHER conformation show. Black_Bronson was complaining that a working titled dog was placed further down the field. Well, they weren't judging on working ability, it's a conformation show!As mentioned, we aren't in Germany...... Not operating under German rule is nothing to be proud of, as the detriment of doing so produces poor quality dogs. The Australian system provides no quality control of maintaining the working genetics of a working dog and therefore provides the foundation not to improve the breed but to make it worse. It's not a matter of being proud or not, it's a matter of staying within the guidelines of the ANKC and the restrictions placed by the Government. We are not able to incorporate the working/protection compoment in our shows, so that, unfortunately, ends up being a mute point in Aus. It is something that is not within our power. If this was to change in the future, then I would joyfully welcome the incorporation of working components at Specialty Shows but until that day happens it really is a pointless discussion. Edited May 6, 2010 by Zed_n_Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockets Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 I agree Aziah, one dog may win one weekend, but not perform the next, it's the reason why we have judges right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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