Urinary Issues 11 Mo Desexed Bitch

[J...]

Has anyone had any experience with similar problems?

Back in Feb Zee showed signs of a UTI - got a catch sample and took her into the vet. Stick test showed very slightly elevated white blood cells and a slight temperature, nothing else showed up i.e good dilution, no signs of crystals, pH was acidic. She was put on a broad spectrum antibiotic for a week. Two days after she finished the course she was still having issues so I asked for a urine culture and she was again given a further course of the same A/B. Nothing in the culture but apparently not unusual given she'd already been on A/Bs.

Tuesday nearly 2 weeks ago she had an accident in the car - something she never did even as a puppy and the same way the last UTI showed up. Took another sample in for a culture, stick test showed nothing and waited until last Wednesday (so a week with no treatment) to get the same answer - nothing in the culture. In the meantime it's only been the last week that she's managed to make it through the entire night again. I put her on cranberry tablets straight away. Vet has taken a wait and see approach.

Tonight she piddled in the kitchen after she got a fright at the broom falling over. Nothing untoward colour wise. We did some training and while sitting on the floor with shorts on she sat on my bare leg and left a tiny brown looking smudge. I grabbed a tissue and given her a gentle wipe and the tissue is brown. Both dogs had a bath today so it's not dirt.

I will be ringing the vet first thing in the morning and asking for some answers, but in the meantime does anyone have any suggestions as to what it might be? Is the wait and see a usual approach given a dog is showing out of the ordinary behaviour toileting wise. :D

This has been stressing me out for nearly two weeks now - I hope it's nothing serious

[Staff'n'Toller]

We had a couple of older dogs that turned out to have a few stones. Seems strange in her case given her age but you can always ask for an ultrasound just to be sure. :D

Since she had already been on AB's perhaps request another culture and sensitivity on a new sample and get the lab to spin it down and examine the sediment.

What's her diet?

[J...]

She's on full raw SnT - thanks for your answer.

Wouldn't they have spun the sample down in the first place?

[poodlefan]

Is she desexed? If so, at what age was it done.

Hormonal incontinence might be a possiblity.

[J...]

Yes she was desexed at 5.5 months - I would've let her have a season but I don't have the facilities for an in season bitch and there are entire dogs left to wander everywhere around here.

I don't see how it could be though given it cleared up and has now started again. There is no sign of dribbling or minor accidents on her bedding at all, ever. When she has an accident it's a puddle not a dribble.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Urinalysis, Culture and Sensitivity and Sediment Exam can all be separate requests when you send urine off for testing.

[Erny]

Has she been drinking more of late?

Is her urine diluted?

Has there been any sign that might suggest she is sore/uncomfortable? (eg. skeletal/spine injury; stiffness)

[J...]

Urinalysis, Culture and Sensitivity and Sediment Exam can all be separate requests when you send urine off for testing.

I know they did the urinalysis and the culture as these were the reasons the tests took so long. Not sure about the sediment exam - I hope it was done.

Has she been drinking more of late?

Is her urine diluted?

Has there been any sign that might suggest she is sore/uncomfortable? (eg. skeletal/spine injury; stiffness)

Not drinking any more than usual, urine is it's usual colour and she doesn't appear sore or stiff but she's also very full on and possibly wouldn't show it. Both dogs are due for a check up which I was planning to get done this week anyway, I take them both to Dr Kim at Belmont who has the benefit of being a vet as well.

[Erny]

Not drinking any more than usual, urine is it's usual colour ...

Good. I was reading up on Pyometra (because of the 'brown smudge' you mentioned) which can occur in some cases even after desexing, although apparently this is rather rare. Drinking more and having diluted urine are a couple of the symptoms. So I am glad of your answer.

... and she doesn't appear sore or stiff but she's also very full on and possibly wouldn't show it. Both dogs are due for a check up which I was planning to get done this week anyway, I take them both to Dr Kim at Belmont who has the benefit of being a vet as well.

Possibly not a cause, but worth ruling out.

[Rappie]

I've seen an 11 week old puppy suffer a complete urinary obstruction from a bladder stone, so I would always consider imaging (abdominal radiographs or ultrasound) in a dog with recurrent urinary tract infections. I usually do my own urinalysis and sediment, and send a sterile sample off for culture in anything that is 'suspicious' (low concentration, repeat episodes of cystitis etc).

[tez]

Hi Jess...sorry to hear that you are still having problems.

This might sound abit icky but does her urine smell any different??? Urine infections often smell abit off or fishy. Urine can also have a funny or sweet odour if there is a metabolic problem. Ok...something even ickier...did you smell the tissue????

Urinary incontinence in desexed dogs often happens when they are asleep as the bladder spincter relaxes from the pressure of the urine in the bladder. Its normally quite a flood at the time.

Seeing as she wee'd when she got a fright, do you think it may be a submissive behaviour? We had a dog who whould wee when someone came to the door. She was hyper-excited but also quite submissive and would wee while lying on her back wagging her tail at the visitor. I don't think she was even aware she was doing it!

Good luck with her Jess...I hope you get some answers soon.

[J...]

Thanks tez, but it's definitely not submissiveness. Her urine smells no different to what it did when she was a pup.

[J...]

Dropped yet another urine sample in this morning along with the tissue - stick test results clear again for white cells, protein, red cells, and whatever else the stick tests for. Didn't see any value in reculturing again and thus pretty much at a dead end diagnotically. Vet is going to have a chat to another vet at the clinic for other testing options otherwise looking at a referral to a specialist.

Another sleepless night coming up.

Thinking about this some more - the thing that seems to set off her accidents is arousal - nearly always excitement (training/car trips etc) but why has she been ok for the last 2 months and suddenly having trouble again? Maybe the Feb issue was a true infection but this one is something totally different?

When she has an accident she knows she's doing it - i.e she squats like she normally does, it's not like she's jumping around like an excitable puppy piddling everywhere without realising

Edited April 19, 2010 by Jess.

[Chocolatelover]

Dropped yet another urine sample in this morning along with the tissue - stick test results clear again for white cells, protein, red cells, and whatever else the stick tests for. Didn't see any value in reculturing again and thus pretty much at a dead end diagnotically. Vet is going to have a chat to another vet at the clinic for other testing options otherwise looking at a referral to a specialist.

Another sleepless night coming up.

Thinking about this some more - the thing that seems to set off her accidents is arousal - nearly always excitement (training/car trips etc) but why has she been ok for the last 2 months and suddenly having trouble again? Maybe the Feb issue was a true infection but this one is something totally different?

When she has an accident she knows she's doing it - i.e she squats like she normally does, it's not like she's jumping around like an excitable puppy piddling everywhere without realising

Hi Jess,

Humans can get something called interstitial cystitis where the bladder is inflammed but urine tests are usually negative for infection. The inflammation causes bladder hypercontractability - the bladder gets a bit excited and contracts when it shouldn't. It results in urge incontinence which means when you have to go you just have to and you can't always help it if it's not in the right place They diagnose it with a camera in the bladder where the inflammation will be seen (in humans). I am not sure how they diagnose or treat the inflammation in dogs though but I am pretty sure they can suffer something similar. In humans they inject steroids or botox into the bladder to give them some relief.

Desexed female dogs are susceptible to developing incontinence because of the lack of oestrogen (as are menopausal women). Oestrogen "plumps" up the urethra and helps with muscle tone to stop urine leaking. But I am prettty sure this usually happens when the dog is asleep or relaxed????? (Going from memory here).

Specialist is definitely your best bet. Would be good to rule out all possibilities of nasties - I think tumours can cause overflow incontinence too.

I hope you can get to the bottom of it - at least to know that everything is OK with her

Edited April 19, 2010 by Chocolatelover

[J...]

Thanks CL - interesting info. More to ask the vet! I'm starting to wonder if it possible it is some sort of allergy or food intolerance that is somehow irritating her bladder?

Vets redid every possibly test today to double check results and still found everything within normal limits.

We have an U/S booked in for next Tuesday which is the earliest we can get locally. Also have Zee booked in for a check up at their usual "sports" vet on Wednesday.

Do ultrasounds require a belly shaving? Because we're going to have to do some work on that between now and then - she hated the dremmel and that was just to use it on Darcy.

[Erny]

Do ultrasounds require a belly shaving? Because we're going to have to do some work on that between now and then - she hated the dremmel and that was just to use it on Darcy.

My previous girl, also a Ridgeback (so a short, fine, single coat) was shaved when she had to have ultrasounds, so I'd suggest yes.