What Is A Pure Bred?

[mumof3]

I THINK

The purebred is the animal.

The pedigree is the record of its ancestry / breeding.

An animal is sometimes refered to as a pedigree "x breed", which is something of a term coined to mean an animal for which a written pedigree exists.

ETA: Just noticed the Lithuanian Goat Catching Retriever - excellent piece of work. Well done. Where can I buy one?

Edited April 19, 2010 by mumof3

[Souff]

just for my own understanding, what is the difference between a purebred and a pedigree? Is the pedigree a dog with official papers where the parents are officialy tested etc?

A pedigree is a record of a dog's lineage - a record of its parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents and greatgreatgrandparents and other known direct ancestors.

Usually a dog's pedigree is recorded and printed and the paper on which it is printed is known as the pedigree paper.

A stamp is put on the pedigree paper that says "certified" when the document is issued from a registering body.

A dog cannot be defined as "a pedigree dog" because the word pedigree is a noun and should not be used as an adjective.

However it is perfectly correct to describe the dog as "a pedigreed dog" or "a dog with a known pedigree".

In the human race we call our pedigrees our family histories.

Fortunately we humans are rarely called upon to produce proof of our pedigree - if we did we would all need to be certified.

The meaning of "purebred" is totally unrelated to "pedigree". Two totally different things but can often be found together.

The description of "purebred" has adequately been given elsewhere in this thread so Souff will now return to cuppa and cookies and allow you to find those posts and make your comparisons to the above. Adieu.

Souff

Edited April 19, 2010 by Souff

[kirst_goldens]

A white GSD cannot be "on the main register" and therefore will not have papers issued for any progeny so therefore it cannot fill this criteria. Yes technically you will still have a GSD but it cannot be classified purebred.

a white shep can and is still purebred!! if it had pedigree papers and was in a reg litter then it is a registered pedigreed dog... i dont see how it is no longer a purebred just because it is white??

Thats like saying a sable border collie isnt purebred cause it isnt black and white??

edited to fix my wording re the above post

Edited April 19, 2010 by kirst_goldens

[Souff]

A white GSD cannot be "on the main register" and therefore will not have papers issued for any progeny so therefore it cannot fill this criteria. Yes technically you will still have a GSD but it cannot be classified purebred.

a white shep can and is still purebred!! if it had pedigree papers and was in a reg litter then it is a registered pedigreed dog... i dont see how it is no longer a purebred just because it is white??

Thats like saying a sable border collie isnt purebred cause it isnt black and white??

edited to fix my wording re the above post

Correct KG Go to the top of the class

If a dog has been bred only from dogs of the same breed, then it is a purebred dog. See Jed's post.

It can be blue, it can be pink, it can be green, and yes it can be white.

Whether the dog is registered anywhere in the world, or never registered anywhere in the world, has no bearing on whether or not it is a purebred dog.

The rules of one canine registry can be different to the rules of another canine registry but if a dog is purebred and can be proven to be purebred then no rules of any registry can change that fact.

Souff

[AmandaJ]

A white GSD cannot be "on the main register" and therefore will not have papers issued for any progeny so therefore it cannot fill this criteria. Yes technically you will still have a GSD but it cannot be classified purebred.

a white shep can and is still purebred!! if it had pedigree papers and was in a reg litter then it is a registered pedigreed dog... i dont see how it is no longer a purebred just because it is white??

Thats like saying a sable border collie isnt purebred cause it isnt black and white??

edited to fix my wording re the above post

Breed standards are clear on allowable colours. White is only allowed as a minority coat colour, and in certain sections, on a GSD; as with many other breeds. There are reasons why white coat must only be minority in proportion in many breeds (refer breed predisposition to vaccine mediated autoimmune conditions). In some breeds the white is a camouflage to snow - allowing for hunting ability. Dogs whose purpose is primarily snow bound and require hunting ability will blend into the environs - hence a white (or predominantly white) coat.

Any animal bred from registered parents, bred by a registered breeder, will be registered (in fact ANKC rules direct that any animal bred by a registered breeder MUST be listed on one of the registers)with the state registering body (ANKC member body). Whether that animal meets the breed standard or not does not matter. All ANKC "bred" animals SHOULD be on either the limited or main register. Some breeders will monitor "good pups" and may even transfer them to the main register for breeding purposes as they develop.

At the same time - as genetics is not a perfect science - an animal whose colouring is not to standard but whose structure and movement is very desirable may be of use in some breeding plans. Hence the reason many breeders take a chance on homes and do not sterilize before homing....in the hope that the new home will do the right thing.

So much is the pitty that faith and truth grow ever further apart.

[Bindii]

Jed i just love your chosen breed!!!

How clever!! WOW I have such a clear idea in my head of what they look like

[IngeK]

A pedigree is a record of a dog's lineage - a record of its parents, grandparents, greatgrandparents and greatgreatgrandparents and other known direct ancestors.

Usually a dog's pedigree is recorded and printed and the paper on which it is printed is known as the pedigree paper.

A stamp is put on the pedigree paper that says "certified" when the document is issued from a registering body.

A dog cannot be defined as "a pedigree dog" because the word pedigree is a noun and should not be used as an adjective.

However it is perfectly correct to describe the dog as "a pedigreed dog" or "a dog with a known pedigree".

Souff

Thanks Souff, well explained.

Funny though to call it purebred if you sometimes dont know the parents or other family so the purebred might be a cross breed.

[Steve]

Its about predictability.

If I want to know what management issues I have to take into account to live happily with a dog - how much grooming, whether it's likely to wander, how high my fences need to be,what I can expect its prey drive to be like, whether it will love cuddles or be aloof, how much training I need to put in etc then the only way to do that is to select a dog where these characteristics have been known about its ancestors for generations because with a poodle cross lab every one is a pot luck and I cant predict before I take it home what its going to need to live with it.

Kate Scoffeld breeds first cross lab x poodles and she tells us on her website that when she surveyed her buyers that they had identified 68 different coat combinations.

How could I be sure when I choose a pup that its going to suit my lifestyle ? Dogs have 100,000 plus genes and unless certain traits have been selected for over at least 5 generations every pup is pot luck.

Beagle cross pug -puggle - has been toted as the answer to beagles wanting to wander but studies have shown this isn't the case and the desire to wander isn't anything to do with the shape of the nose.

Beagles and pugs have completely different personalities and management issues and if I want to be sure of what its going to take to have me and the dog live happily ever after there's just no way of knowing until I'm in the middle of it.

Julie

[Souff]

Funny though to call it purebred if you sometimes dont know the parents or other family so the purebred might be a cross breed.

No, no, you still haven't quite got it .....

Read again Jed's description of "purebred".

Another way of saying it:

If the parents and earlier consecutive generations are not known to be of the same breed, then it CANNOT be called "a purebred dog".

If the parents and usually around 4 consecutive previous generations are known to be of the same breed then it CAN be called "a purebred dog".

If you are starting off a new breed and you don't know the background of the dogs then your dogs cannot be called purebred until you can prove to the world that they have the known background breeding from the same breed, under whatever rules of whatever country or organisation you are aligned with.

Souff

edited for clarity

Edited April 19, 2010 by Souff

[Souff]

Beagle cross pug -puggle - has been toted as the answer to beagles wanting to wander but studies have shown this isn't the case and the desire to wander isn't anything to do with the shape of the nose.

Julie

Oh.

Did somebody think they would have a different sense of direction?

Or were not food oriented because they were a designer dog?

[Jed]

A white GSD cannot be "on the main register" and therefore will not have papers issued for any progeny so therefore it cannot fill this criteria. Yes technically you will still have a GSD but it cannot be classified purebred.

Yes, a white GSD is purebred. It's parents were both purebred.

"Purebred" and "registered" are not the same.

A "registered" dog must be a purebred, but a purebred is not necessarily registered with a registering body, such as the ANKC.

I breed boxers. Sometimes there are white pups in the litter. Same parents as the fawns and brindles and they are purebred. However, the white pups cannot be registered, so they are unregistered purebreds. But they are still purebred boxers, they have the same genetic makeup as their fawn and brindle brothers and sisters.

IngeK

Funny though to call it purebred if you sometimes dont know the parents or other family so the purebred might be a cross breed.

If you don't know what the parents are, the dog may will be a crossbred, not a purebred. Whether you know what they are or not doesn't matter, what is important is what IS - whether the parents are purebred or not.

Steve, I have nightmares about some of those crosses. If you cross a pug and a beagle, and you get something with the pug's conformation and the beagles drives, I wonder how long it will be before some serious health problems emerge? No long. The beagle was made to cruise over distances and he is conformationally sound to do that. When you cross him with another breed made for entirely different purposes, you are breeding nightmares.

Cavalier x beagles give me nightmares too - for exactly the same reason.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Jed

[IngeK]

Its ok now Souff, I get it Thanks again

[IngeK]

Its ok now Souff, I get it Thanks again

We then have a purebreed with all papers and a cross breed GSD (while last one is born in the dogpound and dad is unknown)

edit .. extra text added

[Souff]

Its ok now Souff, I get it Thanks again

We then have a purebreed with all papers and a cross breed GSD (while last one is born in the dogpound and dad is unknown)

edit .. extra text added

Cool.

[Souff]

Steve, I have nightmares about some of those crosses. If you cross a pug and a beagle, and you get something with the pug's conformation and the beagles drives, I wonder how long it will be before some serious health problems emerge? No long. The beagle was made to cruise over distances and he is conformationally sound to do that. When you cross him with another breed made for entirely different purposes, you are breeding nightmares.

Cavalier x beagles give me nightmares too - for exactly the same reason.

Yep it can be the stuff of nightmares.....

Pug x Beagle = snufflin, snoring little Beagle type dogs with a screw tail and who probably cant free whelp :D

A waste of good genes.

Cavvy x Beagle = hells bells, lock up the dog food real tight!

I have a vision of a rotund type of brown hairy dog, something like a rather large overweight LH Dachsie

(with apologies to all the well bred LH Dachshunds out there).

Why ...why ... why do people even begin to think of mixing up these beautiful breeds. It cannot be a good outcome for the dogs.

Souff

[yarracully]

Jed thank you for your history of your breed but I have a question for you from your history lesson.

Where can I get my hands on a lithuanian goat. At only thirty centimetres tall and produce ten litres of milk each day yet live on barren ground I could do with a couple of thousand head. Obviously more money in these than in running bloody sheep. Not too worried about their swimming abilities- we don't have any water so they should fit in here quite easliy

[Souff]

Jed thank you for your history of your breed but I have a question for you from your history lesson.

Where can I get my hands on a lithuanian goat. At only thirty centimetres tall and produce ten litres of milk each day yet live on barren ground I could do with a couple of thousand head. Obviously more money in these than in running bloody sheep. Not too worried about their swimming abilities- we don't have any water so they should fit in here quite easliy

Perhaps ask over at Deshonko Kennels .... she is sure to know a breeder of LGs :D

[Wazzat Xolo]

an example of other canine controls in very rare breeds like the Xoloitzcuintle has allowed the follwing to preserve the breed,

A hairless Xolo that has never been registered can be inspected and given an initial registration through FCM by visiting the FCM facility in Monterey, Guadalajara or Mexico City. Xoloitzcuintle are given this special opportunity to receive a registration upon inspection in Mexico because of their rarity and their importance to the people of their country of origin. This practice of visual inspection and registration is also a very real necessity because there are many undocumented Xolo bloodlines. It is common practice for Xolo breeders in Mexico to seek out new breeding stock in the isolated villages of the Mexican countryside. The larger cities of Mexico are vary modern but many small villages remain extremely isolated. There are many Xolo bloodlines that remain undocumented because of this, perhaps some of the best. . A Xolo registered in Mexico with FCM can be shown in any FCI country of the world.

I am fortunate enough to have two wild Xolos in my bitches pedigree 3 generations behind.

[Fanuilos]

I think you answered your own question.

"Purebred dog refers to a dog of a modern dog breed that closely resembles other dogs of the same breed, with ancestry documented in a stud book and registered with one of the major dog registries.

A white GSD cannot be "on the main register" and therefore will not have papers issued for any progeny so therefore it cannot fill this criteria. Yes technically you will still have a GSD but it cannot be classified purebred.

Ummm, as the owner of two ANKC main registered White Swiss Shepherds, which is the FCI name for White Shepherds, hence White GSDs, I will disagree which this statement.

It's only the White Shepherds of Australian origin which currently can't be registered, like Chewbacca's poor depressed Kimba.

[mumof3]

Jed thank you for your history of your breed but I have a question for you from your history lesson.

Where can I get my hands on a lithuanian goat. At only thirty centimetres tall and produce ten litres of milk each day yet live on barren ground I could do with a couple of thousand head. Obviously more money in these than in running bloody sheep. Not too worried about their swimming abilities- we don't have any water so they should fit in here quite easliy

I quite understand where you are coming from here, but have you considered the OHS implications of running a couple of thousand of these rather nasty animals?