Ok- I Need Help To Be Diplomatic

[persephone]

Someone I know has a couple of SWF females,and has just purchased a male ..... yes, to breed with .Not to make money ..just because they are lovely little dogs. :D They are ,too- great well behaved, happy little xbred dogs.

This person is a nice person... and is connected to the family- so I have been told I am not to say anything ! Are there any facts & figures on SWF surrenders/dumpings /rescues.. without the emotive stuff? perhaps that will be allowed .....

Thankyou.

[RufusTheDoofus]

Why not show them some shelter websites with swf listed.

Alternatively youcould say something like, you are really good dog owners, of course you will have the puppies desexed before they leave so that other people don't use them for puppy farms.

At least then you can perhaps break the cycle before it starts.

[persephone]

Thanks Rufus- That's not a bad plan

[Guest Willow]

OMG...they're often the worst kind of people to deal with, because they are so nice, and can't see how it can hurt to pass on those lovely genes ....it would be easier if they were hateful money grabbing **************

My little SWF man came from a Sydney pound......he was entire, used for breeding probably, and was due to be put down.....ended up being flown to rescue in WA which is how I came to have him, because there is no demand in NSW for SWF's apparently because the "market" is flooded with them....perhaps PM Loopy Lola (SAFE Perth) and she might have some stats you can arm yourself with about SWF's in the east.......

Perhaps tell them a few horror stories about how there are unscrupulous puppy farmers trawling NSW for litters of cute SWF puppies, posing as loving families when really they want to get their hands on them to lock them in cages & force them to breed....if they are nice people this might hit them where it hurts....the heartstrings rather than the purse strings in this case

[RufusTheDoofus]

Oh and what about the puppy mill raid in qld? There must be some ammo there

[persephone]

yes- absolutely lovely kind people- but yes, need some gentle educating.

[Loving my Oldies]

yes- absolutely lovely kind people- but yes, need some gentle educating.

Sad isn't it. If these were the only sort of BYB, it might not be such a massive problem. It's like people who take "souvenirs" from ancient sites, or plants from protected park areas: oh one little piece/plant/whatever won't make much difference. The difference is made when a million people say that.

Make sure these people know that Maltese and the various crosses are HIGH MAINTENANCE dogs in terms of grooming.

Oh and make sure that really really know who they are selling the pups to. When I had two Maltese many years ago, I was approached by complete strangers asking me to sell them. I didn't realise at first that they weren't wanting my dogs because they were so gorgeous ..... they wanted them as money making machines. :D

Edited April 17, 2010 by Mother Moocher

[tdierikx]

I'd be outlining the reasonably high incidence of small dogs needing caesarians... and how much that may cost and still ending up with no puppies at the end of the expenses... note that a caesarian will most likely need to be performed in emergency hours and the costs of that can run into some thousands...

T.

[Red Fox]

Perse, I'd explain to them the costs associated with breeding. The risks of giving birth, about health testing, the costs associated with an after hours c-section, costs of microchipping and desexing the puppies and what if they can't find homes for them.

There was a thread here last year with all kinds of horror stories in it. I printed it off and gave it to someone I knew who was contemplating keeping one of the female puppies from her 'accidental' cross bred litter (she is a pet owner, not a registered breeder) to breed with her sisters dog.

She was too nice a person to just say 'you're an idiot to do that!' to and gentle persuasion wasn't cutting it either. I just gave her the print out one day and said 'This is why I've chosen never to breed my dog, it would be too much for me to deal with all of this'. She has given away the last puppy and elected to get her female dog desexed. I think she also gave it to the kids to read too which is great.

I think you should certainly say something though, it doesn't have to be nasty. There is a BIG difference between berating someone who doesn't know any better and trying to help them do the right thing

[Andisa]

Good luck getting through - as a groomer I see a few people who breed their fluffies - never about the money - just because they love them. It is usually once they get a vet bill or the mum wants to be part of the family and not stay with her pups that they will think otherwise.

I show them my vet bills - no one believes me until they see them - "how can it cost that much". Some times that is all that is needed other times they either have a good run of luck - but something does go wrong and that is usually what it takes. It has to hit home that is costs them more than they get back. Some times their precious girl just doesn't want to be a mummy so they either raise the pups the hard way - hard because most don't think to learn first what happens if it goes wrong or they let them die.

One of my clients - a really lovely young couple - spoil their dogs a lot. While it frustrated me heaps I offered to help if they needed it, they did ok 1st time - but second time she had them in the middle of their $5000 brand new mattress - cost a pretty penny to have that cleaned and they threw out the bedding. Lost 2 pups straight off because mum didn't break the sacks and only had 3 left to sell. Then the shock of all was she took them to the primary school for show and tell at 5 weeks old and sold them at 6 weeks - they had enough. It's been over 18mths since the last litter and I think they have learnt it's not worth it now.

Other clients it seems takes them a couple of litters and at least one decent vet bill to discourage them from breeding their fluffies.

I refused to groom for one family when the dog they planned to use was a nasty piece of shit - told them if they desex him I will groom him but will not touch that dog again until his ball are off.

Another client wanted to breed her fluffy - they are lovely people - but the bitch is a nasty little shit at 3.5kg she is the worst behaved dog I have seen. It only took a couple of conversations with them about why breeding with her was a very bad idea - and they never have. 6 yrs later no puppies. The winning argument with her was "what did anyone do to you to end up with a dog like her - why would you do it and what would you do if everyone brought back a litter of nasty little bastards - what will you do with them" she thought about it and told me I was right - she didn't think about it like that and both her and her husband agreed it was not worth it. That bitch is so nasty she is sedated before I can put one hand on her - even then she will still have a go at me, the owner sedates her and stays to help as I can not do her on my own. This is one f****d up dog.

A trip to the pounds and open up papers to show her how many fluffies are already out there - ask her if she will keep them all if she can not find homes for them. Make a list of expenses and call a vet and ask how much to have to have a emergency c section if something goes wrong - how much for vaccs and microchipping them. Cost of a milk replacer incase mum has no milk. Tell them they will have to be with her when she whelps because first time mums need to learn how to be mums - it comes naturally to some but not all. List the objects to have on hand for whelping and estimated cost. Assk her what books DVD's has she read on breeding dogs and what she will do. Discuss diet.

Good luck but at the end of the day they will not listen because "nothing will go wrong".

OT- when I was having my 1st baby I said to my sister - I am only having a baby - what can possibly go wrong" - I went 12 weeks premature and boy did I learn just what can go wrong - 2nd baby was 8 weeks prem....

Problems can happen to anyone - just because most people can have babies without any issues - bitches with puppies - cats - kittens ect - it is all pure luck..Just because someone may have problems doesn't mean "you" will - but it sure makes you stop and think when it does happen to "you"...

[WreckitWhippet]

Give them info on pyo, it's scarey stuff and probably the thing that tops the list of every reputable breeders concerns

[Wazzat Xolo]

Someone I know has a couple of SWF females,and has just purchased a male ..... yes, to breed with .Not to make money ..just because they are lovely little dogs. :D They are ,too- great well behaved, happy little xbred dogs.

This person is a nice person... and is connected to the family- so I have been told I am not to say anything ! Are there any facts & figures on SWF surrenders/dumpings /rescues.. without the emotive stuff? perhaps that will be allowed .....

Thankyou.

The costs of Vet Bills if something goes wrong ( the cost even if it doesnt is good too) what can happen with dogs that are not health tested, the costs and heartbreak to owners of their beloeved pet when faced with thousands in vet bills or Euthansia. The costs that are not thought of generally give people a wake up call, Tell me a breeder who has made money from dogs and I will eat my hat. ( I mean a real breeder not a cross bred breeder of SWFs) Good luck and I am sure they will take on board what you say to them.

DOL link

[poodlefan]

Don't be "difficult" be "helpful".

Link her with information about all the risks of breeding and how much effort is required to properly raise pups.

If you cant stop her, you might at least educate her for the sake of the dogs.

Edited April 18, 2010 by poodlefan

[persephone]

:D thanks folks _ i needed to have stuff written down ! My brain is turning to mush

I shall see what eventuates as the new pup gets old enough .

[Christina]

Another thing that may put them off is to say that both the dogs should be health tested before breeding.

Ask how they would feel if their 2 cute babies developed something nasty later & would they want to give people the upset of having their puppies the same. They are nice people aren't they ?

Find whatever the cross breeds are thought to be then find every remotely related health test in the 2/3 breeds.

Tell them to take them to the vet before breeding & have patellas checked, heart test, cm, anything, pra, von willebrands, Legge Perthes, vaginal swabs. Just pile on the list they won't know if its all needed.

Costs may scare them off.