Are Our Breeds Changing As Our Needs Are Changing?

[RufusTheDoofus]

In our growing society, our cities are spreading as our country areas dwindle. Suburbia is growing up as much as it is growing out.

There has been a surge of x bred oodles tailored to size and shape - a round dog to fit a hole, no shaving around the edges. As these x breeds become the norm are our prure bred dogs in danger of becoming obselete?

Who needs a dog thats good at catching rats when you dont live in a farmhouse (or a DHS house)?

Who needs a dog that is good at herding when all of the animals live in battery conditions?

Who needs a dog to run down deer. lions, tigers, elephants (whatever hunting dogs run down)?

People will want dogs that are companions and that is all. We will all have the best alarm systems and thus need guard dogs.

I do realise that I am being facitious in some of what I say and that I exaggerating as well, but who knows what the future brings?

What do you think? Are we going to end up in a world of oodles and not much else 20 years...50 years...100 years from now?

[RallyValley]

I don't know if you realise but (even falsley) promoting cross breds is against forum rules.

By your flawed logic most people would not have dogs, only stuffed toys, since they don't 'need' one. I can't speak for every breed but as far as I am aware both Chesapeakes and Kelpies still do what they were orginally bred for. People still hunt for recreation and still raise sheep for a living. They have not yet found a more effective way to retrieve dead birds from an ice cold, fast flowing river then a bird dog.

Also I don't know where you come from but here in WA all our livestock is in large stations, battery farming of sheep and cattle does not happen in Australia.

Also why do people need cross breed dogs to be companions? Thier is a whole group of dogs (the Toy Group) bred orgianlly to be companions as well as many other dogs across all groups being suited to people with different activity levels and personal preferances.

Not everybody likes the same things, every Labrador x Poodle I have seen is cosmetically unappealing to me and potentially PRA and HD effected since the parents have never been tested.

[Gayle.]

My dogs are herding dogs. Why do I prefer them over a woolly oodle?

They were bred to work side by side with people, horses and other dogs.

They are intelligent and biddable.

They have easy care coats.

The breed in general enjoy good, robust health.

I have their pedigrees which go back to the start of record keeping for the breed.

I know what they'll look like when they grow up.

I knew when I bought them what the traits of the breed were and if they'd be a good fit for us.

There are very, very few show up in pounds and shelters.

We have lived in suburbia the whole time we've had the dogs. We work fulltime, we live a busy lifestyle but knowing what our dogs would grow up like meant we could tailor parts of our lives to suit them.

The same could not be said of a pup with unknown heritage bred from two or more non-complementary breeds who probably haven't been tested for any heritable diseases and whose body parts don't fit together correctly.

[Poodle Mum]

The current trend I see is for something with a "cute, trendy or different name"

Unfortunately these are oftn found in petshops in big shopping centres & impulse buys are a result.

You only have look at some recent TV programmes to see where these stock of "oodles" are sourced. There is no regard for the health or socialisation of the mum & pups in the conditions that they are kept in.

I realise that I am probably going to be shot down in flames......but I am passionate about my breed & I have taken great care to ensure all genetic testing has been done prior to the mating which has resulted in a much wanted litter of babies I have now (19 days old!)

I have nothing against cross breeds, but I do about those people in the middle that are creating "oodles" for liitle testing, and care where they are placed..... & then being sold at a ridiculous $$

[Wazzat Xolo]

I dont think its a cse of cross bred or pure bred I believe its a case of there may be NO DOGS or CATS as our society becomes more urbanised the limited

opportunities for contact and ownership of pets is becoming less and less. people are moving to apartments and units thus not all can have a dog/cat etc.

The amount of dog walkers and dog day care centres that are booming due to the fact people want the pets but dont always have the time for them. i think the way urbanisation is going is more of a question than breed. JMHO

With the budgets of most becoming more and more tight, the poor old dog is usually one of the first to suffer, as in vet visits every three years, lower quality food and eventually no money for the dog and surrender to shelters. I would like to know the stats now for dog surrenders to years ago when things were not so tight!

Also there will be a lot more unhappy people as we all know pets are therapy in so many ways.

I am not applying this to all just an overall view ( I know DOLers would feed Fido long before themselves!) if only the whole world was full of DOLers!! )

[Greytmate]

In our growing society, our cities are spreading as our country areas dwindle. Suburbia is growing up as much as it is growing out.

There has been a surge of x bred oodles tailored to size and shape - a round dog to fit a hole, no shaving around the edges. As these x breeds become the norm are our prure bred dogs in danger of becoming obselete?

...

What do you think? Are we going to end up in a world of oodles and not much else 20 years...50 years...100 years from now?

Cross bred dogs are not tailored to anything. They come in a wide variety of size and shape and you cannot predict what that size or shape will be.

Your problem is that you believe the marketing. Oodles or whatever are not a round dog to fit a hole, they are a random dog that is less likely to fit than a purebred that has been chosen to fit.

Purebred dogs are fairly predictable in terms of coat type, size, shape, energy level, food requirements, guarding instinct, retrieving instinct, any dog instinct you can mention. Modern suburban families really need to consider all of these traits before they buy a dog, to avoid a terrible mistake. People buying oodles and other crossbreds risk taking on a dog that might be really unsuited to their needs.

This is a purebred forum, so I suggest that you do a lot more reading here before suggesting that our dogs are less suited as companions than a randomly bred dog.

[sandgrubber]

Yes, breeds are changing, as is the mix of breeds. I have Labbies. I think the breed is popular because Labbies are usually low aggression and good with people . . . easy dogs to live with. In the days when retrieving was more important and dogs were valued for retrieving, selection was for dogs with strong drive and good endurance. With more pups going as pets, the pressure to select for drive is off, and more laid-back temperament is often perferred. It's easy to find Labs who won't retrieve . . . and you occasionally find one who doesn't even like to swim. Sure, some of this comes from training . . . but you will also find it runs in certain lines . . . even when the breeder who has the stud dog does retrieving and values working dogs. Early in the century, I doubt that a dog who hated water would have much of a career as a stud . . . however good his conformation. . . . especially if he threw pups who disliked water.

I'd be interested to hear the equivalent story from a SBT breeder. Staffies and Labs are more or less tied for numbers of pedigree registrations in Australia. Seems to me that the Australian staffie is much more of a larrikin and much less tough than the SBTs found in Europe and the US. I'd guess there has been breeding down of the fighting nature and bringing out the waggy comic aspects that make the SBT such an endearing breed.

Edited April 17, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Nekhbet]

I dont see them tailored at all. Clueless people buy equally clueless, randomly bred dogs.

There are plenty of people who herd, hunt, vermin control, protection dogs, guide dogs, detection dogs etc. I would never buy an alarm when I have my dogs. Constricting laws are making dogs obselete before trends are. We're being forced out of real sports by the SpEsHaL people who have no clue about anything but have clout in government. We cant course, we cant protection train or do schutzhund, we cant hunt deer unless dogs are a certain breed, we cant do thism we cant do that ...

[RufusTheDoofus]

I never promoted oodles (I own a GSD - if you had read my intro thread before jumping down my throat you would have seen that) AND I don't personally believe the marketing, but the general public does. This thread was meant to encourage discuss not incite attacks. Deary me.

What I was really wondering whether people think that oodles are a danger to our purebreds. I am also talking about the future, not today, not tomorrow, but years ahead. Trends and so forth.

I didn't realise I was so unclear in my original post. My apologies.

I brought this up as I was at petstock today and noticed a magazine with a footballer on it. It was promoting his oodle as the perfect pet.

[RallyValley]

Do you really think people from a pure bred dog forum, many of whom love/show/breed/compete thier dogs want to discuss the pros and cons of oodles?

Maybe if you had left out that part and talked only about increasing suburbia and peoples needs and wants you would have been fine. Your orginal post wasn't very clear and made it seem like you were saying poodle cross breeds are the solution to the potential problem.

I never promoted oodles (I own a GSD - if you had read my intro thread before jumping down my throat you would have seen that) AND I don't personally believe the marketing, but the general public does. This thread was meant to encourage discuss not incite attacks. Deary me.

What I was really wondering whether people think that oodles are a danger to our purebreds. I am also talking about the future, not today, not tomorrow, but years ahead. Trends and so forth.

I didn't realise I was so unclear in my original post. My apologies.

I brought this up as I was at petstock today and noticed a magazine with a footballer on it. It was promoting his oodle as the perfect pet.

Edited April 17, 2010 by valleyCBR

[Mas1981]

I love my purebred lab, would I take a x breed dog next time, probably not, I would be unsure whether the lovely lab nature would have carried through, would he love water, will he be keen to retrieve?? I wouldnt be able to answer any of these questions if i took a x bred dog, sure I may still get a purebred who may not like water or may not retrieve etc, but they are much MORE likely to have the traits than a x breed.

[RufusTheDoofus]

I would hope that people would be able to discuss things intelligently, yes. However, if you choose not to discuss this topic, fine by me. At least try to understand that I am not discussing pros and cons but asking if oodles are a threat to pure breds and if this threat is getting worse.

Do you really think people from a pure bred dog forum, many of whom love/show/breed/compete thier dogs want to discuss the pros and cons of oodles?

Maybe if you had left out that part and talked only about increasing suburbia and peoples needs and wants you would have been fine. Your orginal post wasn't very clear and made it seem like you were saying poodle cross breeds are the solution to the potential problem.

I never promoted oodles (I own a GSD - if you had read my intro thread before jumping down my throat you would have seen that) AND I don't personally believe the marketing, but the general public does. This thread was meant to encourage discuss not incite attacks. Deary me.

What I was really wondering whether people think that oodles are a danger to our purebreds. I am also talking about the future, not today, not tomorrow, but years ahead. Trends and so forth.

I didn't realise I was so unclear in my original post. My apologies.

I brought this up as I was at petstock today and noticed a magazine with a footballer on it. It was promoting his oodle as the perfect pet.

[Nekhbet]

I didnt see any promotion of oodles

I simply saw the OP asking a logical question. Maybe some people need to stop jumping down peoples throats so quickly.

[Erny]

I dont see them tailored at all. Clueless people buy equally clueless, randomly bred dogs.

There are plenty of people who herd, hunt, vermin control, protection dogs, guide dogs, detection dogs etc. I would never buy an alarm when I have my dogs. Constricting laws are making dogs obselete before trends are. We're being forced out of real sports by the SpEsHaL people who have no clue about anything but have clout in government. We cant course, we cant protection train or do schutzhund, we cant hunt deer unless dogs are a certain breed, we cant do thism we cant do that ...

What Nekhbet said.

Society is not setting the trends. People within authorities with an agenda are setting the trend. And leaving us no leeway. "Their way or the highway" attitude and it is suffocating. Their idea of democracy is "you can have a say in anything so long as what you say is what we want you to say and we won't hear any different". Hhhmmffpphh.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Erny

[RufusTheDoofus]

So if our authorities are setting the trend what can be done to change the authorities? Much as people fight BSL it still seems to be approaching like a freight train. How long before we are told we cannot have dogs that are bred to hunt (fox terriers, deerhounds, etc) or dogs that are bred to guard (dobermanns, malinois, etc)? Is it decades or years? Are we so intent on degrading x breds and fighting BSL that we are missing the subtle removal of breeds from society through removing things such as Schh?

I know this is stretching my oriignal post but it is someething that often plays around in my mind. Perhaps I need a hobby.

[Nekhbet]

education is the key but getting there before the laws are changed. I notice there is always a lot of bru ha ha after the deed is done ... shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. Government policy is hard to reverse particularly when the original morons lobby so hard to have it passed anyway.

There are states that allow things like schutzhund, prongs, hunting etc to happen. Using GOOD examples from there and also educating the public to understand the truth behind these animals is key. Too many people think bitework is dangerous, prongs are evil, hunting dogs kill things etc.

[WoofnHoof]

Purebreds haven't been promoted as pets to the extent that DDs have, that is why they are gaining popularity.

I agree with sandgrubber that breeds are changing to suit more of an urban lifestyle, some people are seeing that there is a need for lowering certain drives and are breeding towards that. Very few of the breeds look exactly the same as they did 100-200 years ago so it's logical to suggest that if the breeds are still around in 100-200 years then they wont necessarily look or act the same as they do now.

[ILK]

DD's are generally bred only for "CUTSY" appeal they are not just cute as pups, but you are pretty much guaranteed that they will be cute as adults also, whereas our breeds of choice have been bred for a particular reason.

Unfortunately it is people that only have an interest in cute that don't investigate things properly or purchase on impulse who buy the DD's.

To answer your question "NO" I don't think that we are in danger of losing our breeds to DD's because us educated people will continue to educate the uneducated and so the cycle will continue. Many would only ever purchase a purebred for their desired personality traits and physical appeal which is what will keep these breeds alive no matter what happens to society.

[Red Fox]

I dont see them tailored at all. Clueless people buy equally clueless, randomly bred dogs.

There are plenty of people who herd, hunt, vermin control, protection dogs, guide dogs, detection dogs etc. I would never buy an alarm when I have my dogs. Constricting laws are making dogs obselete before trends are. We're being forced out of real sports by the SpEsHaL people who have no clue about anything but have clout in government. We cant course, we cant protection train or do schutzhund, we cant hunt deer unless dogs are a certain breed, we cant do thism we cant do that ...

Agreed. Personally I think that Vic law's are ridiculous. The day that those laws spread to the rest of the country will be the day I pack up and move O/S!

My fear is that with BSL and the like that more and more breeds (particularly bull breeds and large/giant breeds) will be added and we will no longer see them here

I never promoted oodles (I own a GSD - if you had read my intro thread before jumping down my throat you would have seen that) AND I don't personally believe the marketing, but the general public does. This thread was meant to encourage discuss not incite attacks. Deary me.

What I was really wondering whether people think that oodles are a danger to our purebreds. I am also talking about the future, not today, not tomorrow, but years ahead. Trends and so forth.

I didn't realise I was so unclear in my original post. My apologies.

I brought this up as I was at petstock today and noticed a magazine with a footballer on it. It was promoting his oodle as the perfect pet.

Refer to the bolded part of Nek's post. Those who love and support purebreeds will always have them, so in that regard then no I dont think they will ever become non-existant. Clueless idiots on the other hand will buy whatever they think is 'in' at the time -be that a 'tea-cup' chi or an 'oodle or a 'Lassie' dog. Perhaps in 20 years time it will be something else entirely?

[Jed]

As well as job specific roles, such as herding, hunting etc. purebred dogs have characteristics which are specific to their breed. They may not be required for their original role, but their specific characteristics adapt to modern society, so people purchase them for pets, even though they may not have a requirement for the original job.

Temperament, coat type, size, characteristics are predictable in a purebred dog, and many people like that predictability. Personally, I would prefer to know exactly how my pup will grow, and what it will be like as an adult, because I know the characteristics are those I will be happy with. If I buy a cross bred, it may not have characteristics I desire, and "may not meet expectations", which is the major reason for people taking their dogs to the pound.

And if I am going to live with a dog for 10 - 15 years, I want to know that it is a dog I will get on with, which will train predictably, act predictably, and behave predictably, as well as grow the coat I expect.

Cross bred dogs have been heavily promoted via the media for the past 15 or so years, and given that, and programs such as PDE which vilify purebred dogs, the public now purchases cross breds.

Another factor increasing the sales of cross breds is the scarcity of purebred dogs. There are insufficient purebred dogs to meet the market, so some do buy crossbreds.