Bsl Brisbane Law Interpretation

[APBT]

The SBT, AST and APBT are one and the same breed. Only Australia and NZ claim they are different as do people who limit their research to ANKC pseudo-histories. If your SBT is the longer legged SBT then it is at risk unless you can prove the parantage through DNA testing. You can't prove breed but it may come back as a Collie which can't hurt. Most PB-types killed throughout Australia are actually SBT crosses. The latest SC case may put a dampener on things for a while, then the whole sorry BSL fiasco will start again. Your dog will then be an AST cross which the law now states is a APBT cross.

i disagree, They may of ONCE been the same breed, but hundreds of years or breeding tells me they are two different breeds in my book.

[whippets]

It's a well known fact that when Xenu landed on earth he bought with him a very perculiar looking 4 legged creature. Xenu was the founder of Scientology and the 4 legged creature became known as the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

Apart from supporting BSL and not knowing the difference between bought and brought, a common problem, attacking peoples religious beliefs says more about the attacker than the believers. Ever read the bible? Make fun of that as well. Hate speech like the BSL supporters.

I love your posts. Keep them coming

Also it is people's....not peoples. Also a common problem. Not that I really care. I am not writing a thesis on a dog forum that is to be peer reviewed.

[justin19801]

Must be so comforting to know the world is wrong and hence one is right. History speaks for itself. SBT=APBT=AST. Dogfighters know it, lawyers know it, judges know it, politicians know it, students of the breed know it, except for those who limit their research to ANKC pap. Better to fight BSL rather than argue what "breed" one's dog falls under. Especially as without papers they are all PB-types anyway. Only BSL supporters or breed supremecists argue the point.

[RottnBullies]

Must be so comforting to know the world is wrong and hence one is right. History speaks for itself. SBT=APBT=AST. Dogfighters know it, lawyers know it, judges know it, politicians know it, students of the breed know it, except for those who limit their research to ANKC pap. Better to fight BSL rather than argue what "breed" one's dog falls under. Especially as without papers they are all PB-types anyway. Only BSL supporters or breed supremecists argue the point.

I am NOT a BSL supporter or breed supremecist... BUT I for one will not agree to your equation no matter how many times you blabble It

[Jed]

Hi,

We live in Brisbane and have concerns about the future for our dog after the recent events on the Gold Coast.

After reading the Brisbane City Council website in regards to dangerous dogs, it states:

"The following breeds of dogs, including those that substantially meet the description of these breeds, are banned in Brisbane:

American pit-bull terrier"

My concern is we purchased our puppy as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier without any papers. We have no proof, or even know ourselves how pure his bloodline is.

To look at he could be accused of being crossed with an APBT. We can't prove differently.

My question is, are people who own non-breeder 'pit bull type' (I use the term in a broad sense to describe dogs that the general public might mistake and classify as a 'pit bull') concerned that their dogs will be accused of being part APBT and be destroyed? What are people doing if they are concerned?

We have spent so much time training our dog to be a well behaved and have no fear of him ever being aggressive in anyway.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Many dogs of unknown parentage, including STB without papers have been seized by Brisbane City Council. However, I believe they are not seizing as many at the moment.

Your rights are - if they come for your dog, they must have the correct paperwork, and you can fight the claim that he is a restricted breed. Do not let them take the dog without seeing the paperwork. Information re the paperwork should be on the council's website.

You should register him with the council as a STB. It would also be a very good idea to contact the people who sold him to you, and get them to write a statutory declaration saying he is a STB. Plus, if possible, take photos of the parents, and have the breeders state in the stat dec that the dogs in the photos are the parents.

Also have your vet write a letter saying that he is an STB.

This will not guarantee his safety 100%, but may help if there is a problem.

There are very few solicitors who have any idea about this.

The only thing which currently provides 100% safety for STB in Qld is an ANKC registration certificate, so if you bought the dog from a registered breeder, do go and get the papers, or at least the parents' papers.

[justin19801]

Hi,

We live in Brisbane and have concerns about the future for our dog after the recent events on the Gold Coast.

After reading the Brisbane City Council website in regards to dangerous dogs, it states:

"The following breeds of dogs, including those that substantially meet the description of these breeds, are banned in Brisbane:

American pit-bull terrier"

My concern is we purchased our puppy as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier without any papers. We have no proof, or even know ourselves how pure his bloodline is.

To look at he could be accused of being crossed with an APBT. We can't prove differently.

My question is, are people who own non-breeder 'pit bull type' (I use the term in a broad sense to describe dogs that the general public might mistake and classify as a 'pit bull') concerned that their dogs will be accused of being part APBT and be destroyed? What are people doing if they are concerned?

We have spent so much time training our dog to be a well behaved and have no fear of him ever being aggressive in anyway.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Many dogs of unknown parentage, including STB without papers have been seized by Brisbane City Council. However, I believe they are not seizing as many at the moment.

Your rights are - if they come for your dog, they must have the correct paperwork, and you can fight the claim that he is a restricted breed. Do not let them take the dog without seeing the paperwork. Information re the paperwork should be on the council's website.

You should register him with the council as a STB. It would also be a very good idea to contact the people who sold him to you, and get them to write a statutory declaration saying he is a STB. Plus, if possible, take photos of the parents, and have the breeders state in the stat dec that the dogs in the photos are the parents.

Also have your vet write a letter saying that he is an STB.

This will not guarantee his safety 100%, but may help if there is a problem.

There are very few solicitors who have any idea about this.

The only thing which currently provides 100% safety for STB in Qld is an ANKC registration certificate, so if you bought the dog from a registered breeder, do go and get the papers, or at least the parents' papers.

Do they need any paperwork in Qld Jed? It's my understanding they can enter your house on the belief you own an APBT? Your right about lawyers though. Even the civil rights lawyers were ignorant of Chapter 17 entry and seizure laws. The law has changed but not had time to read it all yet.

Edited April 17, 2010 by justin19801

[TessiesTracey]

The SBT, AST and APBT are one and the same breed. Only Australia and NZ claim they are different as do people who limit their research to ANKC pseudo-histories.

And I suppose that is why the UK only recognise the SBT then?????????

Where ARE you from? Unbelievable statements......

p.s. my research is not limited to 'ANKC pap either'.

Edited April 17, 2010 by TessiesTracey

[SoL]

Please don't bother to add fuel to his fire! I note Jackij has since buggered off. This thread has been um unbelievable to say the least!

[Jed]

Hi,

We live in Brisbane and have concerns about the future for our dog after the recent events on the Gold Coast.

After reading the Brisbane City Council website in regards to dangerous dogs, it states:

"The following breeds of dogs, including those that substantially meet the description of these breeds, are banned in Brisbane:

American pit-bull terrier"

My concern is we purchased our puppy as a Staffordshire Bull Terrier without any papers. We have no proof, or even know ourselves how pure his bloodline is.

To look at he could be accused of being crossed with an APBT. We can't prove differently.

My question is, are people who own non-breeder 'pit bull type' (I use the term in a broad sense to describe dogs that the general public might mistake and classify as a 'pit bull') concerned that their dogs will be accused of being part APBT and be destroyed? What are people doing if they are concerned?

We have spent so much time training our dog to be a well behaved and have no fear of him ever being aggressive in anyway.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Many dogs of unknown parentage, including STB without papers have been seized by Brisbane City Council. However, I believe they are not seizing as many at the moment.

Your rights are - if they come for your dog, they must have the correct paperwork, and you can fight the claim that he is a restricted breed. Do not let them take the dog without seeing the paperwork. Information re the paperwork should be on the council's website.

You should register him with the council as a STB. It would also be a very good idea to contact the people who sold him to you, and get them to write a statutory declaration saying he is a STB. Plus, if possible, take photos of the parents, and have the breeders state in the stat dec that the dogs in the photos are the parents.

Also have your vet write a letter saying that he is an STB.

This will not guarantee his safety 100%, but may help if there is a problem.

There are very few solicitors who have any idea about this.

The only thing which currently provides 100% safety for STB in Qld is an ANKC registration certificate, so if you bought the dog from a registered breeder, do go and get the papers, or at least the parents' papers.

Do they need any paperwork in Qld Jed? It's my understanding they can enter your house on the belief you own an APBT? Your right about lawyers though. Even the civil rights lawyers were ignorant of Chapter 17 entry and seizure laws. The law has changed but not had time to read it all yet.

They have passed laws allowing Councils to enter if they believe there is a dangerous dog (ie, APBT) on the premises. Whether those laws would stand up in the supreme court if challenged is another matter, but no one has challenged them as yet.

BCC has enterered and seized dogs, sometimes leaving a notice, sometimes not. On more than one occasion, they are supposed to have broken into the house to seize the dog. I believe this is true

However, ACOs do have to present a seizure notice to the owner before taking the dog. There have been instances where the dog has been nabbed without the paperwork being supplied, so everyone should be aware that ACOs must have the appropriate paperwork, properly signed, prior to taking the dog.

Once they have the dog, it is up to the owner to prove it is not an APBT. If that happens, I can advise. It's not easy though. Basically, the only opinion the council will accept is that of the ACO. They will not accept the opinion of a vet, for instance.

The best option is to make them doubt that the dog is an APBT, before they take it, so they don't actually seize it, which is why I suggested registering as a staffy, and getting every bit of documentation they can.

Due to cases brought before the courts by the EDBA, councils are now more careful about what they seize and they will sometimes back off at that point if the owner has some supporting documentation which suggests the dog is not an APBT or x. Because they are frightened the owner of the dog will go to court and prove (as in the Da Fre case) via records, that the dog is not an APBT.

If the owners have some documentation, the council may back off, aware that the owner will go to court to get the dog back, and will be prepared to have dna tests done, stat decs etc. to prove the dog is not an APBT, which will involve a lot of expense to the council, particularly if the owners win - there are cases which have been won, so councils are more careful now.

Once, they just dragged off any dog which was about the right size and short haired in the firm knowledge that they would win.

I believe the law has changed, but I haven't had time to check either, but the above will serve the op if the need arises. Will have a look at it when I get time.

AST, SBT & APBT parted ways a long time ago, particularly ANKC registered AST and SBT in Australia. I think there are enough generations between AST, APBt and SBT to prove they are separate breeds - unless you use the opinions of Brashear and Harvey, but there are other opinions which don't agree with them.

F4 is accepted as pure with every breed of anything, cattle, goats, horses, and I don't suppose, legally, there would be any problem proving the same thing with AST, APBT and AST - providing someone wanted to put in the research and work to do it. The argument recently used in court that AST and APBT are the same breed was, imho, very short sighted, not well thought out, and did nothing to further the case for the dog in question, but a lot to endanger the lives of AST in this state, and probably in other states as well.

Someone else will now have to go to court and prove otherwise, or Dogsqld will have to run around a lot to disprove it. I didn't think much of the course Dogsqld took on the introduction of BSL in Qld, and had quite a lot of say about it at the time to Dogsqld. Membership supported that point of view. And, to be fair, Dogsqld changed their opinion when they saw the results of their actions.

To the op So, if they come for your dog, ask to see the seizure notice, do not be put off, make sure they show you. Take the time to read it. Then argue that your dog is not an APBT, show them every bit of paperwork you have claiming the dog is not APBT, with photos if you have them. Tell them the dog will show as a SBT if a dna test is done, and that you are contacting your solicitor immediately to fight the seizure and notice. No matter what they say, don't say anything else. Just keep saying the dog is an SBT and you will take it to court.

And hope for the best

Edited April 17, 2010 by Jed

[ZBC]

The reading I've done suggests that dogs from the (fighting) "type" around Staffordshire UK were taken by emigrants from the UK to the USA,and that since that time, the SBT was developed, in the Uk, whilst the APBT was developed in the USA.

It is reasonable to proclaim a common ancestry but then we read that all dogs descended from the grey wolf and I find nothing wolflike about a friend's Blue Heeler!

[justin19801]

The SBT, AST and APBT are one and the same breed. Only Australia and NZ claim they are different as do people who limit their research to ANKC pseudo-histories.

And I suppose that is why the UK only recognise the SBT then?????????

Where ARE you from? Unbelievable statements......

p.s. my research is not limited to 'ANKC pap either'.

Opinion, fine. Facts lacking. Probably believe EBT (miniature, white and coloured) are different breeds . The Boston Terrier has common ancestry and is a different breed, but SBT, AST and APBT are not for the reasons already stated. You almost make whippets sound authoratative!!!! :D

[WreckitWhippet]

What's an EBT ? you could at least get the names correct if you are going to talk about them

[Guest jackij]

EBT is English Bull Terrier

[Guest jackij]

The APBT breeders in America

[Guest jackij]

YEP

Maybe you should do some research

[Guest jackij]

YEP

Maybe you should do some research

[Guest jackij]

:D

I have no friends their just as bad as SBT,APBT, ASBT etc. And as for religions I'm an Atheist.

Anything else you"d like to know ?

Who gave you the right to judge & criticize someone you don't even know

in your "considered opinion" of course, Jackij a friend of yours? :D

[whippets]

This just keeps getting better and better.

[WreckitWhippet]

It's simply " Bull Terrier"

[J.H.M]

:D

I have no friends their just as bad as SBT,APBT, ASBT etc. And as for religions I'm an Atheist.

Anything else you"d like to know ?

Who gave you the right to judge & criticize someone you don't even know

in your "considered opinion" of course, Jackij a friend of yours?

Sorry but the moment you came on here spouting off garbage about SBT's origins you gave everyone the right to take the piss as I am sure you are doing to us

Edited April 19, 2010 by JRM75