Arousal In Training

[corvus]

How do you end training sessions? If your dog is pretty aroused from the sheer joy of training with you, do you do something to bring their arousal down, or do you leave them hanging?

[Lablover]

How do you end training sessions? If your dog is pretty aroused from the sheer joy of training with you, do you do something to bring their arousal down, or do you leave them hanging?

Corvus, not sure if I understand the reason for your question.

Heck, one of my labradors is known to ejaculate before training and trials. Not related to sexual "drive".

That said, I have a sensitive bitch at the moment, who dislikes multiple repetitive blind (hidden retrieve) drills, but is excellent in water and her marking ability is outstanding. With experience I can gauge her as she is loosing interest, so stop training at the first signs and end on a good note.

[corvus]

No reason. Just curious.

By "aroused" I mean worked up, excited, drivey, revved, that kind of thing. Do you leave them revved or do something to calm them down? Why?

[Erny]

I've taught my boy a verbal "on" switch and an "off" switch. That's part of "drive training". No - I don't leave the dog 'hanging'. That would not be good in different environments where the aroused dog is still looking for drive satisfaction that you haven't supplied. I control the game from the beginning to the end.

Do you leave your dogs "hanging" (as you put it) in "drive", Corvus?

You would do really well to learn about the basic steps to "drive" training and I'm sure you would enjoy it. Why not attend a workshop or two on it - visual accounts for so much of learning.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Erny

[Lablover]

No reason. Just curious.

By "aroused" I mean worked up, excited, drivey, revved, that kind of thing. Do you leave them revved or do something to calm them down? Why?

My dogs are intrinsically rewarded by retrieving.......rerevving normally takes little effort. I prefer short multiple training sessions...the dogs may not agree.

I do vocal cue "all gone", but they are still expected to heel back to my vehicle.

[laeral]

I also end our training sessions with an 'off' command (to steal Erny's term)

I make sure we finish each session while she is still super kean and eager for more, but we finish with 'thats enough'. This signals to her that we have finished training and she can switch off/let go and not expect nor keep looking for rewards that arent forthcoming. I do not leave her hanging.

My dog was taught early on in her training both On and Off commands.

[corvus]

Do you leave your dogs "hanging" (as you put it) in "drive", Corvus?

No, since you ask. I have a couple of release cues. I have a "go play" temporary release cue and a "that's all" pack up and go home cue, but I just realised last night that I hardly ever leave it at "that's all". I usually sit down with them and give them rubs and massages until we're all relaxed and smiling at each other. Or maybe just a little low key game of fetch or something.

You would do really well to learn about the basic steps to "drive" training and I'm sure you would enjoy it. Why not attend a workshop or two on it - visual accounts for so much of learning.

Sure, as soon as someone sponsors me.

[~*Shell*~]

Zero has a release word which pretty much means he can go off and do something else if he wants. When we go to obedience training though, I'm getting into a habit of letting him off leash for a run with me before I give him a "hang around" command while I pack his crate up. I've done it the last few weeks we've been and he is so excited about the run and then he likes just hanging out afterwards - it's a good end of the night for both of us. In the backyard he doesn't want to run as much so I usually end a training session with pats and an ear rub after I've used his release word.

[Black Bronson]

There are many advantages to ending training on a high for the dog more so than winding a driven dog down. When training ends high, the dog is more likely to begin the next session high straight out of the box, where on a wind down, it can take valuable time to get the dog back up to where it was last session.

[Erny]

There are many advantages to ending training on a high for the dog more so than winding a driven dog down. When training ends high, the dog is more likely to begin the next session high straight out of the box, where on a wind down, it can take valuable time to get the dog back up to where it was last session.

To me though, there is and/or can be a difference between "being on a high" and "in drive". This is not to argue, but perhaps to clarify. I got the impression from the OP that she is talking about her dog not switching out of "drive" (going by her post in another thread in 'health' where she says : "... finished up a wild game of tug with some TTouch ... went from very high arousal to collapsed on his side in under a minute.") I think it is very important that if we are training our dogs "in drive" that we also train them to be able to flick out of drive.

With my boy there is an obvious change of 'state' once I've given him his "off" cue, but he still finishes very happy. This wasn't always the case (ie in his early days of learning) but it was a very short time before he cottoned on. I think Kivi is further on in training than that, though??? I otherwise agree with you, BB .... I always seek to finish before my boy is ready to.

I wonder if the OP meant "in drive" when speaking of "arousal"? That's what I initially thought she meant, but Corvus uses different language at times so perhaps I have misunderstood what she really means by "aroused" - now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure. Corvus didn't question my response, so I presume she is agreeing that by "arousal" she meant "in drive".

Do you mind clarifying, Corvus?

Edited April 14, 2010 by Erny

[angelsun]

I always end on a high note and encourage my students to do the same. Most of the dogs in my class when it's done will then go have a 'play' session which also keeps their spirits very high. I have found over the years, this simply encourages a dog to work better during class as it learns that the reward at the end is very good.

[Staranais]

Depends, if I were building drive yes I'd end still in drive with her wanting more & thinking about it, but if we are just working and I've rewarded her at the end of a track (for example) then I use the "enough" cue when I put the toy away & she'll flip out of drive and trot off and do something else.

I try to end on a high note (we normally run back to the car off leash with me praising her the whole time), but I don't want to finish with her actually in drive. Particularly as we're trotting through paddocks filled with stock, LOL.

On the other hand, when we're tracking, I generally play with her until she's had the edge taken off her drive & she's a little tired, which I don't always do when doing obedience or recalls (I tend to just give her a few bites and leave her wanting more there). So I guess they're two different situations.

Sorry, may have just confused the issue more.

[Prydenjoy]

I'd love to go to a drive training seminar, I haven't read up much on drive training but assume I train Berri in (food) drive because he works so hard for it. I end the session on a good note, often followed by a game of tug and then let Mango or the kitty in for him to play with, or I'll play several games of "seek" with him. I don't him to think that when he does really well everything ends and he is just left "hanging", so I give him another activity so that he can keep having fun without me. Mango is different, I often train her using the tug toy, so it is part of our training session, rather than something to just finish it off (Berri often wont work well for a toy, he is more food driven). I normally finish her sessions off with a cuddle, because she really loves a good snuggle. Both dogs are very different, so therefore my training sessions accomodate that.

[poodlefan]

Drive unsatisfied is drive frustrated. Not how you should leave a dog.

Mr Joffrey (old style horse trainer) used to talk about the importance of STOPPING training when things were going well. "End of Lesson" for a new behaviour mastered or an improvement in technique is a reward itself. The pressure to perform is stopped.

I like to finish with a game or just turning dogs loose for a blat and a play.

[huski]

Depends, if I were building drive yes I'd end still in drive with her wanting more & thinking about it, but if we are just working and I've rewarded her at the end of a track (for example) then I use the "enough" cue when I put the toy away & she'll flip out of drive and trot off and do something else.

I agree, I also left my dog hanging when we were building drive. I don't think frustration is always a bad thing.

[Agility Dogs]

Our training sessions are very short and the dogs always know when to be 'on' (they come off their mat or our of their crate) and then they know when the session is over because they go back to their mat or their crate. For me this is very important because often (NOT always) I will be training the two dogs in the same place and I really don't need dog B going nuts because Dog A is playing and they want to join in.

I don't like to leave them hanging at the end of a session, but will frustrate them during the session so build up their desire. At the end of the session though they need to know to rest.

[corvus]

There are many advantages to ending training on a high for the dog more so than winding a driven dog down. When training ends high, the dog is more likely to begin the next session high straight out of the box, where on a wind down, it can take valuable time to get the dog back up to where it was last session.

Really? I can't say I've found that. There are a bunch of ways my dogs can tell when we are about to do some training and they are generally already busting to get going by the time I'm ready. The exception would be those little ad hoc training sessions we do when we're doing another activity and toss some training in. All the same, Erik gets a click and it's game on for him. Kivi is a different kind of dog. I could write a whole post about that. It's taken me a bit to figure out what's best for him.

To me though, there is and/or can be a difference between "being on a high" and "in drive". This is not to argue, but perhaps to clarify. I got the impression from the OP that she is talking about her dog not switching out of "drive" (going by her post in another thread in 'health' where she says : "... finished up a wild game of tug with some TTouch ... went from very high arousal to collapsed on his side in under a minute.") I think it is very important that if we are training our dogs "in drive" that we also train them to be able to flick out of drive.

With my boy there is an obvious change of 'state' once I've given him his "off" cue, but he still finishes very happy. This wasn't always the case (ie in his early days of learning) but it was a very short time before he cottoned on. I think Kivi is further on in training than that, though??? I otherwise agree with you, BB .... I always seek to finish before my boy is ready to.

I wonder if the OP meant "in drive" when speaking of "arousal"? That's what I initially thought she meant, but Corvus uses different language at times so perhaps I have misunderstood what she really means by "aroused" - now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure. Corvus didn't question my response, so I presume she is agreeing that by "arousal" she meant "in drive".

Do you mind clarifying, Corvus?

I didn't mean "in drive". I meant aroused in the sense that arousal is a level of physiological and behavioural responsiveness in an animal, which tends to vary between sleep and full alertness, and aroused refers to some loose idea of higher than usual arousal. Assuming 'usual' is base level wakefulness like when you're walking from your house to the letterbox to pick up the junk mail, for example. That's as clear as I can make it, I think?

You only need to touch Kivi's chest for a couple of seconds or give him a quick ear rub and he drops back to base level of arousal or lower after a training session. He's not a real worry in that sense. I don't really need to do anything for him to bring him down, but I find I usually give him a rub anyway. No purpose, just like the bonding.

Erik is a different story all together. He has a lot of qualities that make him a very fun dog to work with, but he can't be an uber alert, hyper optimistic, intensely persistent, confident, insanely reward-sensitive dog without also being a touch on the easily aroused and not so easily settled side. :p Thankfully he's improving consistently. I do like doing something a bit calming after training, though. I hadn't realised I was doing it, but once I thought about it I realised that I usually do something, whether it's some quiet cuddles and massages or walking around or some free play or whatever. Just wondering if other people did it as well and if they had reasons for it.

Thanks Staranais, that's what I was curious about.

[Pete.the.dog]

When I'm going through the normal moves with some treats, the drops, heels and stays etc, Pete get's very excited/aroused. I hold my hands out, palms up, and say 'it's all gone' and then go off and do something else, it doesn't really stop him arousal but he calms down pretty quick anyway