A Question On Colours

[Dee_al]

i posted a while ago about my oh lookin for a blue staffy pup. we found a litter 2 days ago and he really lijes these puppies. the only issue is that atm the puppies are blue but the motheris a blue brindlecolour so the breeder says the puppies may develop brindle later on. the father is a solid blue, so couldthe blue genes just cancel out the brindle? he isnt a big fan of brindle....

[becandcharch]

I'm not an expert but I do see a lot of blues with brindle that comes through as they get older.

I guess if mum is blue brindle then its pretty likely

Our boy was solid blue but now has tiger stripes on his bum.

[Kavik]

I've only seen blue brindles.

[Dogsfevr]

Would the brindling decrease the risk of skin issues associated with the blues??

[sas]

Would the brindling decrease the risk of skin issues associated with the blues??

What is it exactly abou Blue Staffies that have skin issues over other colours?

[Kavik]

Colour dilution alopecia.

Can happen in other breeds as well (like Kelpies, Dobies)

[Sandra777]

Simple genetic lesson OK?

Unless it's red a Stafford will not be a solid colour. Staffords are red because they don't have the gene to express black pigment. (White is not a colour it is an absence of colour)

Staffordshire Bull Terriers do NOT come in solid black.

Every single "black" Staffordshire Bull Terrier is genetically brindle. The very occasional one will not show any brindling - the huge majority will have some, even if only a tiny amount.

Blue is a dilution of black pigment so every single "blue" SBT is actually brindle. Brindle is a pattern - Blue is a dilution of the black pigment in the Brindle. They are different genes and exist at the same time in the same dog. More than one series of genes goes in to making up the colour of the dog.

A very brindle striped SBT which also inherits the dilution blue gene from both parents will be blue brindle, blue with a varying amount of fawn strips. A really stripy one will appear to be fawn with a few blue stripes, but the base colour is black/diluted to blue with a various amount of striping which is controlled by other genes.

A very sparsely brindle striped SBT which also inherits the dilution blue gene from both parents will be an "almost" solid blue - it will still have some brindle (fawn) hairs on it, but much less than a very stripy brindle.

A "black" SBT which also inherits the dilution blue gene from both parents will be a "solid" blue. In reality, it is still genetically brindle and so still has the ability to produce a various amount of striping in it's progeny.

"Black" Staffords very rarely produce a majority of "black" progeny - so there is no science to believe a "solid blue" will produce a majority of "solid blue" progeny.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Sandra777

[gila]

I like your explanations of Stafford colour genetics. You make it very easy to understand.

[WreckitWhippet]

blue on blue mating = nothing but breeding for colour

my advice, walk away

[~Anne~]

It seems to me there is a weird fascintation with "blue" coloured dogs.

[Mollie10]

Do Kerry Blue terriers have similar skin issues?

Just curious.

Mollie

[Sayly]

Mollie10 I believe Kerry's have a different gene that gives them the "blue" colour. They aren't dilutes like the staffords but it's a greying gene instead. I may be wrong though. Kerry's are born black and have black noses.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Lyndsay

[Dogsfevr]

Do Kerry Blue terriers have similar skin issues?

Just curious.

Mollie

They can be prone to cysts.

Infact there are a number of blue breeds that skin isnt an issue but it is known in staffies to be a major issue

[Mollie10]

Mollie10 I believe Kerry's have a different gene that gives them the "blue" colour. They aren't dilutes like the staffords but it's a greying gene instead. I may be wrong though. Kerry's are born black and have black noses.

Thanks Lyndsay. Wheaties are born very dark too, but lighten up due to a brindle gene I believe

Still never seen a Kerry 'in the fur'

[poodlefan]

Mollie10 I believe Kerry's have a different gene that gives them the "blue" colour. They aren't dilutes like the staffords but it's a greying gene instead. I may be wrong though. Kerry's are born black and have black noses.

No, you are right. It is not a dilution gene. It is discussed on this excellent explanation of whippet colour genetics. The greying gene is also responsible for blue poodles.

[ellz]

Mollie10 I believe Kerry's have a different gene that gives them the "blue" colour. They aren't dilutes like the staffords but it's a greying gene instead. I may be wrong though. Kerry's are born black and have black noses.

This is correct.

Editing to add a link.

http://abnormality.purpleflowers.net/genetics/noses.htm

Edited April 14, 2010 by ellz

[ellz]

Simple genetic lesson OK?

Unless it's red a Stafford will not be a solid colour. Staffords are red because they don't have the gene to express black pigment. (White is not a colour it is an absence of colour)

Staffordshire Bull Terriers do NOT come in solid black.

Every single "black" Staffordshire Bull Terrier is genetically brindle. The very occasional one will not show any brindling - the huge majority will have some, even if only a tiny amount.

Blue is a dilution of black pigment so every single "blue" SBT is actually brindle. Brindle is a pattern - Blue is a dilution of the black pigment in the Brindle. They are different genes and exist at the same time in the same dog. More than one series of genes goes in to making up the colour of the dog.

A very brindle striped SBT which also inherits the dilution blue gene from both parents will be blue brindle, blue with a varying amount of fawn strips. A really stripy one will appear to be fawn with a few blue stripes, but the base colour is black/diluted to blue with a various amount of striping which is controlled by other genes.

A very sparsely brindle striped SBT which also inherits the dilution blue gene from both parents will be an "almost" solid blue - it will still have some brindle (fawn) hairs on it, but much less than a very stripy brindle.

A "black" SBT which also inherits the dilution blue gene from both parents will be a "solid" blue. In reality, it is still genetically brindle and so still has the ability to produce a various amount of striping in it's progeny.

"Black" Staffords very rarely produce a majority of "black" progeny - so there is no science to believe a "solid blue" will produce a majority of "solid blue" progeny.

This should be pinned somewhere for future reference. No doubt the same questions will be asked again.....this isn't the first time they have been asked and won't be the last.

[stormie]

Blues can suffer Colour Dilution Alopecia, though it's relatively uncommon. And just for the record, I would say allergies are just as common in other coloured Staffy's.

In saying that though, from what I've learnt on DOL regarding Blue Staffy's, I'd probably stay away from them due to so many of them being bred for the $$.

[SoL]

Pin it up on teh litters noticeboard - save me a lot of time on the phone!

[Mollie10]

Thanks for the information - always good to expand one's knowledge