Need Breeders Advice

[Keltoi]

Hi All,

This is still about the 11 month old Staffy. We have now finally found out from the vet that first and mostly treated this dog that the dog has Spastic Enrtopion (caused by foreign body in eyes this is not genetic ).

All this started with a skin allergy due to inadiquet diet and conjunctivitis in both eyes. stated by vet to us.

It has now been three days and I am still waiting for the vets detailed report I have contacted her repeatedly to ask why she has not sent the report yet with out any success in reaching her, she was reluctant and did not want to do this.

We had offered back then to pay for half the eye surgery only (this was agreed verbally) as the owner said it was genetic entropion and still considering to do so even though this has nothing to do with genetics I have contacted DNA Office and got written reports from them on both of these issuse and also in these reports states non genetic.

Owners still expect us to pay, but not half the bill they want it all paid for, including food, toys and nic/nacs

NONE of It is GENETIC so we are not obligated but we were willing to help untill they got dishonest and greedy.

With the vet is she obligated to write a honest report as she was the person that treated the animal and verbally told us its diagnoses.I have spoken to other vets and they say that they would not have any problems with this and dont know why she has.

What do you guys think and what would you advice on this issue ????

Again Thank You All In Advance

[sas]

All this started with a skin allergy due to inadiquet diet and conjunctivitis in both eyes. stated by vet to us.

Your Vet needs a swift kick up the rear because that comment is completely unfounded, they can not state that as they can not prove that.

Atopic allergies have a genetic component.

Has any allergy testing actually been conducted or is the Vet just an a super guesser?

has Spastic Enrtopion (caused by foreign body in eyes this is not genetic ).

But does your breed have a pre-disposition to this condition because upon reading about it it seems as this condition isn't just random, the dog you bred has to have some sort of sensitivity to have had this condition to start with? https://www.vetconnect.com.au/5min/data/05560556.htm

I'd be asking for a 2nd opinion and then comparing the reports.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you mention DNA - if there are no genetic tests for this condition then you can't make any comments here.

Edited April 13, 2010 by sas

[Red Fox]

Sorry to hear that this is still dragging out for you.

Personally I think you should pay for the FULL amount of eye surgery and be done with it. However the fact that you've offered to pay half isn't all that bad, it's fairer than tunring your back and saying 'too bad' anyway (which I suppose does happen with some breeders...).

As far as the toys/food/other stuff is concerned, well the owners can't expect you to pay for that at all! Just state out-right (and in writing) that you will pay for eye surgery and associated costs ONLY. There is no basis to the owners asking you to pay for toys - they are not meds or essential heath care. Why would they even ask for you to pay for these things is beyond me?

I think you'll find that the vet is reluctant to write up the report as she doesn't want to create conflict or lose clients over this. I can't imagine the dogs owners would be too happy about it if it puts you in the clear

Is it not against privacy regulations to give out a clients medical information without their permission? Perhaps the owners do not want to allow you access to their details and that's why the vet won't write the report for you?

[Spot.]

Eh, I wouldn't pay anything.

Once a puppy goes home he/she becomes the responsibility of the new owner. Had the dog gotten sick within a few weeks, then yes. But not now.

[Gretel]

Eh, I wouldn't pay anything.

Once a puppy goes home he/she becomes the responsibility of the new owner. Had the dog gotten sick within a few weeks, then yes. But not now.

Spotty I wonder if you'd feel that way if you'd bought a pup that developed a problem that may be inherited?

Edited April 13, 2010 by Gretel

[WreckitWhippet]

What does your contract state ?

[Spot.]

Eh, I wouldn't pay anything.

Once a puppy goes home he/she becomes the responsibility of the new owner. Had the dog gotten sick within a few weeks, then yes. But not now.

Spotty I wonder if you'd feel that way if you'd bought a pup that developed a problem that may be inherited?

I bought a puppy from a registered breeder that showed health problems from the day he came home. He died at 12 weeks of age after almost $2000 worth of treatment.

He was our puppy and he was our responsibility.

Money was the last thing on our minds. We had lost our little guy ;) The breeder offered her condolences, but we never expected her to open her wallet too.

ETA: People need to take responsibility for their own dogs. You buy a dog knowing that it could have problems, inherited or not. It is your responsibility to pay for it. Who knows what has happened to the puppy in the 9 months that it has been home.

Edited April 13, 2010 by spotty

[Staranais]

Eh, I wouldn't pay anything.

Once a puppy goes home he/she becomes the responsibility of the new owner. Had the dog gotten sick within a few weeks, then yes. But not now.

Spotty I wonder if you'd feel that way if you'd bought a pup that developed a problem that may be inherited?

I bought a puppy from a registered breeder that showed health problems from the day he came home. He died at 12 weeks of age after almost $2000 worth of treatment.

He was our puppy and he was our responsibility.

Money was the last thing on our minds. We had lost our little guy ;) The breeder offered her condolences, but we never expected her to open her wallet too.

ETA: People need to take responsibility for their own dogs. You buy a dog knowing that it could have problems, inherited or not. It is your responsibility to pay for it. Who knows what has happened to the puppy in the 9 months that it has been home.

Well, I guess that means breeders will save a lot of money on health testing, I mean, why should they bother to do hips and elbows at all, or screen for any genetic disease, if everything becomes the owner's problem the second the dog is off the property?

To me, if it's a purely genetic issue causing the problem, then it should be the breeder's responsibility (up to returning the purchase price of the pup, anyway). If it's down to poor management, then that's simply the owner's problem. If it is a combination, then both owner and breeder should help make it right.

[Spot.]

You can health test until the moon turns purple, but it does not guarantee that every dog in the litter will be healthy.

You have to draw the line somewhere. If you sell someone a puppy whom was sick before he left for his new home, then fine the breeder can pay if you want to ask. But MONTHS or YEARS after the dog leaves? No way Jose. Genetic issue or not, the dog is yours and you can pay!

Edited April 14, 2010 by spotty

[Staranais]

Then no offence, but I really hope you never breed. There are many genetic issues that only become apparent as the dog grows older.

[sas]

Breeders are responsible for what they breed, if they have bred a dog that is ill or has any problems that are not the direct result of the owner then they are responsible.....obviously not accounting for older age related issues.

Sure it may be a one off but they still bred the dog.

The thing here is the vet in concern can no way state what the breeder wants in the report. Sorry matey but I think personlay you need to financially backup this puppy owner.

ETA: People need to take responsibility for their own dogs. You buy a dog knowing that it could have problems, inherited or not. It is your responsibility to pay for it. Who knows what has happened to the puppy in the 9 months that it has been home.

If the Breeder could have prevented it then they are responsible. If they bred the dog and haven't seen the problem before but the owners aren't at fault then the breeder is responsible - maybe not to the full extent as full financial coverage but they are still responsible and have to be held accountable for what they bred if the Owner comes knocking.

A breeders committment is a very big one and this post is no way Breeder bashing but I can't see any Breeder worth their salt trying to wriggle out of something like this.

Edited April 14, 2010 by sas

[Spot.]

Then no offence, but I really hope you never breed. There are many genetic issues that only become apparent as the dog grows older.

I just don't see how you can call up a breeder 5 or 10 years after getting a dog and asking for money because the dog has a genetic issue. Pay for it yourself.

You have your views and I have mine...but I won't ever share your views.

Breeders are responsible for what they breed, if they have bred a dog that is ill or has any problems that are not the direct result of the owner then they are responsible.....obviously not accounting for older age related issues.

Sure it may be a one off but they still bred the dog.

The thing here is the vet in concern can no way state what the breeder wants in the report. Sorry matey but I think personlay you need to financially backup this puppy owner.

ETA: People need to take responsibility for their own dogs. You buy a dog knowing that it could have problems, inherited or not. It is your responsibility to pay for it. Who knows what has happened to the puppy in the 9 months that it has been home.

If the Breeder could have prevented it then they are responsible. If they bred the dog and haven't seen the problem before but the owners aren't at fault then the breeder is responsible - maybe not to the full extent as full financial coverage but they are still responsible and have to be held accountable for what they bred if the Owner comes knocking.

A breeders committment is a very big one and this post is no way Breeder bashing but I can't see any Breeder worth their salt trying to wriggle out of something like this.

There is just no guarantee with dog breeding, is there? Even with all the health testing in the world, you cannot tell whether or not a puppy will have a health problem as it grows up. There is only so much that a breeder can do. In MY opinion they are not responsible for costs.

If they knowingly breed unhealthy dogs, well that is a different story.

Edited April 14, 2010 by spotty

[sas]

There is just no guarantee with dog breeding, is there? Even with all the health testing in the world, you cannot tell whether or not a puppy will have a health problem as it grows up. There is only so much that a breeder can do. In MY opinion they are not responsible for costs.

If they knowingly breed unhealthy dogs, well that is a different story.

Please go back and read my post.

[aussielover]

Well in this case, seeing as it can't really be proven either way whether it was genetic, environment or a combination of the two (even the vet didn't really seem able to say for sure), I think it would be reasonable, and a nice gesture for the breeder to pay for half of the cost of surgery to correct the entropian and any meds relating directly to the surgery.

These people seem quite greedy wanting food and toys to be paid for as well. I'd like to know what their justification for that is?

Personally, if my dog developed a genetic condition that couldn't be tested for, I wouldn't expect the breeder to pay at all. I would let them know about the problem so they could decide to remove the parents from the breeding program or whatever was neccesary.