Advice / Opinions Please Regarding Rough Play

[Nic oh lah]

Hi everyone, just wanting some opinons and advice regarding play between our existing GSD (she's almost 2) and our new puppy, 11wk old Border Collie. When Sophie is playing with him in the yard she's a bit rough - putting his head in her mouth, pinning him in her teeth by his neck, and pawing at him. I'm thinking it's just normal play along the lines of "i'm the boss, don't forget it" but just wanting to check that this behaviour is ok - it goes on for the first 10 minutes he's in the yard, then she settles down and it's all good.

He doesn't cry or whimper, and he keeps running after her and biting at her toungue and muzzle, and sniffing her butt, so I think he's happy enough, but when she lopes up to him he hides between my legs. So Chase seems happy enough, but just wanting other's opinions based on what i've said, as she's like 5 times his size at her 38kg so yeah - rather safe than sorry.

In the morning we put him in the yard at about 8am - i'm home at 12noon for lunch and bring him inside where he tends to just crash out and sleep in his crate - I leave him inside (not shut in the crate) until i get home at 5ish and then let him out for another Hour with Sophie - then he comes inside, has his dinner and spends the night inside. When he's a bit bigger and can hold his own a bit more physically i intend to let him sleep outside with Sophie or have them both sleep inside together.

[poodlefan]

Are you leaving them together for the mornings?

I'd be separating them if you are. Rough play from such a large dog could damage a growing pup.

[Nic oh lah]

Are you leaving them together for the mornings?

I'd be separating them if you are. Rough play from such a large dog could damage a growing pup.

OK cool - this is the kind of advice I want! Yes i'm leaving them for those few hours - Puppy has a full belly then with his breakfast so after he's toileted he tends to just go out there and climb under the shelf on the BBQ and sleep, and Sophie lays on the trampoline bed beside him and sleeps, and they seem to do that most the morning as puppy is normally still out there sleeping when i get home noon-ish, but if DOLers advise to be seperating them I'll keep him inside unless i'm home to supervise. If the size difference wasn't so massive i wouldn't be as concerned but if it got too rough he couldn't hold his own.

[Addicted to Dogs]

NicGSDlover

It would see that if your pup keeps following the older dog and wanting to engage that while maybe rough the pup is not finding it too much. Keep an eye out for anything that makes you uneasy or signs that the pup wants out or is being injured. At the first sign step in and get professional help. If you really feel unsure now get professional help - even if all it does is put your mind at ease.

Dog play can be loud and it can be rough - and it will change when your pup hits about the 5 - 6 month mark and becomes an adolescent and loses its puppy licence. To learn more about dog play, behaviour and language check out some of the great resources online (and beware some of the incorrect and dangerous ones). For instance I'd recommend starting out with info on dog play and behaviour at http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/dog-play, and communication at http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/dog-communication. Attached are three articles (sort of) that I wrote for another forum but you might find it useful now or in the near future - one on telling the difference between play and fighting, one on the puppy licence and one on the play bow.

Play_Bows.doc Play_or_Warming_Up_for_a_Fight.doc The_Puppy_License_and_its_Loss.doc

If you want more references for learning about dog behaviour and body language I'm happy to oblige.

Let us know how you go - and keep up the photos please.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Addicted to Dogs

[corvus]

I tend to think puppies are fine unless they cry. They cry so readily.

In support of PF and just keeping an eye on them, my mother has a small dog that was injured when a large puppy jumped on him. His back was hurt, and he ended up with severe early arthritis in that area that the vet thinks may be the result of an old injury. He was about 2 when it happened. I have a large dog and a small dog that is younger, but as it happens the big one is naturally gentle and the little one is the one that makes the big one squeal.

[GoldenGirl85]

Does she know to be gentle? I know when we first introduced my JRT (different I know lol) to my mums Cav puppy we wernt sure how she would react to this tiny baby as she wasnt socialised very much, but when play got a bit rough we would remind her to "be gentle" and she would back off a little but still play

[poodlefan]

I tend to think puppies are fine unless they cry. They cry so readily. ;)

In support of PF and just keeping an eye on them, my mother has a small dog that was injured when a large puppy jumped on him. His back was hurt, and he ended up with severe early arthritis in that area that the vet thinks may be the result of an old injury. He was about 2 when it happened. I have a large dog and a small dog that is younger, but as it happens the big one is naturally gentle and the little one is the one that makes the big one squeal.

My friend homed a Golden Retriever pup with a family with an adult Border Collie. The new owners were advised to keep the pup separate from the BC until it had finished growing. This wasn't to prevent the pup from being squashed but from over working its growing body.

The advice was ignored. The pup spent much of the day chasing and playing with the BC. The owners thought it was so cute.

At 5 months of age, the pup started limping. Off to the vet they went. Diagnosis: stress induced OCD. Breeder was blamed for selling a defective pup.

She gave them their money back, collected the pup and had the OCD surgically treated. Vet said went she opened the area up, the affected joint was basically powder from being over used.

The advice I give may be on the cautious side but you only get one chance to raise a pup without breaking it.

[Kavik]

I tend to think puppies are fine unless they cry. They cry so readily. :D

In support of PF and just keeping an eye on them, my mother has a small dog that was injured when a large puppy jumped on him. His back was hurt, and he ended up with severe early arthritis in that area that the vet thinks may be the result of an old injury. He was about 2 when it happened. I have a large dog and a small dog that is younger, but as it happens the big one is naturally gentle and the little one is the one that makes the big one squeal.

My friend homed a Golden Retriever pup with a family with an adult Border Collie. The new owners were advised to keep the pup separate from the BC until it had finished growing. This wasn't to prevent the pup from being squashed but from over working its growing body.

The advice was ignored. The pup spent much of the day chasing and playing with the BC. The owners thought it was so cute.

At 5 months of age, the pup started limping. Off to the vet they went. Diagnosis: stress induced OCD. Breeder was blamed for selling a defective pup.

She gave them their money back, collected the pup and had the OCD surgically treated. Vet said went she opened the area up, the affected joint was basically powder from being over used.

The advice I give may be on the cautious side but you only get one chance to raise a pup without breaking it.

Interestingly the only issue I've had with pups playing with adult dogs have been when the pup was a large breed dog and the dog wasn't!

Diesel broke his leg by doing zoomies with Zoe and having a collision with her and landing badly. Never seem to have problems with the Kelpies running around though, only the klutz GSD ;)

[Nic oh lah]

I think i'm going to err on the side of caution and keep him inside unless i'm supervising until he's a bit bigger - he'll be 12 weeks tomorrow and he's growing fast and looks like he's going to be a big boy! He's eating 2 cups of eukanuba in the morning and the same at night and growing like a weed - the first week we'd had him he put on 1.2kg and when we took him back to the breeder for his 10wk vacc (her mum's a vet) he was already towering over his sisters - it's amazing how fast he's growing, and he's got lovely big boofer paws, so i've got my hopes up to think he's going to be a BIG BOY, haha.

I've not ever had a puppy which is why I have all these questions - we got Sophie at 18months and though she had a puppy brain still she was big enough to be in the yard all day and all night and be inside with us when we were home, and was toilet trained! So this all peeing, all crapping, all chewing little ball of fluff indicates to me that I don't want a puppy - lol, I want the dog he's going to be!

So for at least a few more weeks i'll keep him inside unless under supervision.

[fifi]

My young one's are only with adults for supervised time - me right there. so they learn manners and the adults learn 'gentle'.

Pups are so easily injured by rough play.

At all other times they are separated, even if only by a chainlink fence.

fifi

[newfsie]

I have giant breeds and we are very careful to control all play with the pup..........We have taught our adult dogs "gently" and they know what we mean. if we say "gently" to one grown dog, the other will often push the rough dog off. It is quite amusing now, because the dogs have sort of controlled their play with our newf pup now. Mind you she is grown huge and now we have been teaching her "gentle" to protect the adult dogs :)I would not wait till a puppy yelps, especially whilst there is such a size difference. it could be too late otherwise. So basically we initially we always supervised all our play.

[Elsha_UK_AU]

My 2 are together when we go to work, but then I have Cavalier King Charles Spaniels....my older boy 16 months weighs 6.4kgs and my 15 week old Pup weighed 3.2kg at his last vet visit 3 weeks ago and would now defo be over 4kgs. I am not too concerned about them playing together...Tagnan (older boy) prefers to sleep or hide from the little terror who hangs off of his neck, tail, back legs, ears by his teeth.

Susan

[Robbi]

I spent a month worried about how rough was too rough when we brought Abbie home(Bull Arabx) she is a very strong boofa and my other dogs are a very elderly Kelpie and a Whippet.

Old Jess immediatly put Abbie in her place with a loud growl as if to say"I dont play" and it was Yogi Whippet that I had to tell to be gentle as he was being very rough but now they have settled into playing nicely although I do call time out on occasion as it can get a bit too rowdy.