Pack Leader

[huski]

I don't personally get the pretending to eat the dog's food either. There are many easier ways to get your dog to see food as a resource you control, my dogs look to me for permission to eat and I've never pretended to eat their food

[sas]

LOL this thread is a crack up!

OP - Please stop reading this thread and just get in a qualified behaviourist....if you follow all the advice here your dogs will end up nut cases as will you! LOL

[Danois]

*snip*

These dogs need to see you as pack leader and you will need to exercise them daily as a tired dog is a happy dog. Being so large you may have to take them for extended bike rides one at a time.

*snip*

That would have to be some of the worst advice I have seen given to the owner of a giant breed puppy!

[lovemesideways]

Hey you two! I have spent a lot less on vet fees patching up after scraps since paying for my amichien bonding lady! And even my vet has been impressed with the changes in the dogs and asked me for her details. She actually works every day at the Animal Welfare League. She was the right person for us.....

If you had someone qualified in Amish Bounding from the University of Dubiosity your dogs might be doing your ironing and mowing the lawns by now, just saying...

All you need now is one of those super obnoxious ads on TV.

*Bright colours flashing* Super dog training sale on now!!(OMG WOW REALLY!?!!?)

Have you dog doing your laundry, brushing your hair and even making you a delicious home cooked meal all by using this one simple training tecnique!!!!!!!!

CALL NOW and receive a Free doggie shampoo, that not only cleans your dog, it makes them Smarter!!!!

I would buy it....

[Gilypoo]

LOL this thread is a crack up!

OP - Please stop reading this thread and just get in a qualified behaviourist....if you follow all the advice here your dogs will end up nut cases as will you! LOL

I think its too late for me but anything that will help th girls

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Exercise is a good suggestion for any dog but it has to be appropriate. Large breed youngsters should not be over exercised - you risk affecting their skeletal development. Also, I often see exercise suggested to "tire a dog out" and people saying "a tired dog is a good dog". That's fine if the dog tires at about the same rate as their human, but some are energizer bunnies and they go and go. In those situations, you have to teach the dog how to be calm.

[percyk]

yep definitely feed separately

we have a pack of dogs here

and we feed them all together except for one

yep there is the occasional growling and i feed them all one by one ...but theyre sitting in a row

and if there are any little scraps i just put it down on a plate and they dig in after i make sure they have all had a decent feed

would never introduce the other boy though cos theyd be a fight with any of them

he is the pack leader even though he is the youngest and he will start a scrap with them over any food there might be left hanging round..like a bit of dry cat food dropped or whatever so we are careful

it isnt to draw blood but sounds ferocious and theres no real animosity - we can walk all of them together and they cohabit nicely

with bitches it can be hard

and really it can be troublesome even if they are years apart

all can go smoothly and then with the decline of one, the younger one can try to usurp the throne so to speak

have seen that here with other packs we have had

best thing is try to monitor

and never assume

if you think there could be trouble then dont risk it with two such big dogs

if theres no blood drawn it is usually ok but if youre up for stitches for any of them then youll know there will be trouble likely in volatile situations such as feeding or with toys around etc...even buried bones can set off a fight

be careful

we arent all capable of being the cesars of the world who can feed 50 dogs at a time

most of us cope with what we have acquired as pretty ordinary skills and many dogs remain beyond the control of the average owner unfortunately

so we have to just use our senses and never let our guard down

[Mas1981]

yep definitely feed separately

we have a pack of dogs here

and we feed them all together except for one

yep there is the occasional growling and i feed them all one by one ...but theyre sitting in a row

and if there are any little scraps i just put it down on a plate and they dig in after i make sure they have all had a decent feed

would never introduce the other boy though cos theyd be a fight with any of them

he is the pack leader even though he is the youngest and he will start a scrap with them over any food there might be left hanging round..like a bit of dry cat food dropped or whatever so we are careful

it isnt to draw blood but sounds ferocious and theres no real animosity - we can walk all of them together and they cohabit nicely

with bitches it can be hard

and really it can be troublesome even if they are years apart

all can go smoothly and then with the decline of one, the younger one can try to usurp the throne so to speak

have seen that here with other packs we have had

best thing is try to monitor

and never assume

if you think there could be trouble then dont risk it with two such big dogs

if theres no blood drawn it is usually ok but if youre up for stitches for any of them then youll know there will be trouble likely in volatile situations such as feeding or with toys around etc...even buried bones can set off a fight

be careful

we arent all capable of being the cesars of the world who can feed 50 dogs at a time

most of us cope with what we have acquired as pretty ordinary skills and many dogs remain beyond the control of the average owner unfortunately

so we have to just use our senses and never let our guard down

I agree 100%, bones and toys used to start fights amongst my 2 as the one would bury their toy/bone and then the one would try steal the others off them. They would also fight if one went out and one stayed home, in the end if one needed the vet I would take both just to be on the same side and I never gave them bones or toys after the last huge fight.

[corvus]

I think a program that brings structure, boundaries and leadership to dogs in a non confrontational way is a good thing.

I think that can't possibly be stressed enough.

[tarope]

Hi Gilypoo,

Two bitches equals problems, but with a little common sence everything works out.

Feed them separately, watch them eat and remove their bowls. One will be the boss, but you are the boss of both always.

I have a GSD dog a GSD bitch and a Rottie bitch, my GSD bitch is the boss but I'm the boss of them all. If my GSD bitch stands over my Rottie bitch which happends only now and then, I step in and push her away if she goes back I do it again saying no so she gets the message.

I always feed them separately,especially bones and they have their own toys. If people come over my Rottie is inside and my GSD bitch is outside or vice versa because if they are both inside together and people pat my Rottie my GSD bitch will run over and bite my Rottie I try not to favour one over the other and usually pat and hug them together.

If you have a GSD dog and bitch combo (desexed of course) you don't have these problems, I could hug my boy all day and both bitches couldn't care less. Both dog and bitch will sit together and eat their bones and have never had a fight, maybe because my boy is a big sook.

I'm no expert but for many years we've always had three bitches together (before my GSD's) and one was always the boss and we only had problems if we let her be the boss instead of us. I don't think a behaviorist is needed as it's just common sence and that's free.

[Greytmate]

Hi Gilypoo,

Two bitches equals problems, but with a little common sence everything works out.

Feed them separately, watch them eat and remove their bowls. One will be the boss, but you are the boss of both always.

I have a GSD dog a GSD bitch and a Rottie bitch, my GSD bitch is the boss but I'm the boss of them all. If my GSD bitch stands over my Rottie bitch which happends only now and then, I step in and push her away if she goes back I do it again saying no so she gets the message.

I always feed them separately,especially bones and they have their own toys. If people come over my Rottie is inside and my GSD bitch is outside or vice versa because if they are both inside together and people pat my Rottie my GSD bitch will run over and bite my Rottie I try not to favour one over the other and usually pat and hug them together.

If you have a GSD dog and bitch combo (desexed of course) you don't have these problems, I could hug my boy all day and both bitches couldn't care less. Both dog and bitch will sit together and eat their bones and have never had a fight, maybe because my boy is a big sook.

I'm no expert but for many years we've always had three bitches together (before my GSD's) and one was always the boss and we only had problems if we let her be the boss instead of us. I don't think a behaviorist is needed as it's just common sence and that's free.

If you can't have your two bitches together without one biting the other, you have a real problem there. It sounds like you are not in control at all.

It is wrong to say that somebody won't have problems if they have a GSD dog and bitch combo. Sometimes fights can occur over things like food.

You are suggesting that the OP doesn't get professional help, yet you haven't offered anything helpful. Dog behaviour maybe common sense to dogs, but not to most people.

[Staranais]

There are many ways to train a dog but I find AB (and I don't pretend to be widely read on it) talks the language of dominance too much for my taste. "Me Alpha, you dog" programs are a bit simplistic for how I view the human/dog relationship.

Yes, I agree. Most of these type of trainers have only one way to fix dog behaviour issues (it's all about dominance/pack structure). Talk about one trick ponies.

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail...

[Monah]

I sound OT, and I am a worry wort, but better safe than sorry. DOgs this size can do a lot of damage to each other, or god forbid, cause a fatality ;)

Whoooa Nelly! Goodness....way to over react!

It was a tiff over food, big deal....all you serve to do by placing unnccessary stress on the owner is make them more anxious around their dogs which could cause the problem to esculate further.

I'm not saying a tiff isn't serious...but a fatality :D

My advice is to feed them seperately for the moment until you can have a Behaviourist come and have a visit with you. My personal belief if that dogs should be able to eat in peace without competition for their food so I always feed seperately.

I also believe that you can not 'pick' which Canine you want to be top dog over the other and by trying to do you can create problems.

I'd go ahead and take the Behaviourists advice about how to lead your pack but right now, I'd just take a deep breath and chill :D

Yes, I see what you mean, but I have seen what a wolfie can do to a GSD when a GSD went for the owner and also am close friends with a vet neighbour who has a lot of clients whose dogs have severely injured or worse each other. :D and I am over cautious, I know.

I didn't mean to frighten anyone, I only wanted the OP to realise that they need to be careful, even though the dogs are now 'friends'. I agree the behaviourist is the way to go, a PROPER one. :D And I appologise if Iv'e caused the OP any extra stress. I admit I am over conservative in any safety issues, animals and kids. xxxxx

PF, I too think the aplha only style 'training' is bunkum.

[sandgrubber]

Jeez. Would be nice if there were such a thing as a qualified 'behaviouralist'. Lots of us seem to have a silver bullet, but no way to assay the bullet to be sure it's really silver.

[Kelpie-i]

So Gilypoo, have you contacted a behaviourst yet?

[tarope]

Hi Gilypoo,

Two bitches equals problems, but with a little common sence everything works out.

Feed them separately, watch them eat and remove their bowls. One will be the boss, but you are the boss of both always.

I have a GSD dog a GSD bitch and a Rottie bitch, my GSD bitch is the boss but I'm the boss of them all. If my GSD bitch stands over my Rottie bitch which happends only now and then, I step in and push her away if she goes back I do it again saying no so she gets the message.

I always feed them separately,especially bones and they have their own toys. If people come over my Rottie is inside and my GSD bitch is outside or vice versa because if they are both inside together and people pat my Rottie my GSD bitch will run over and bite my Rottie I try not to favour one over the other and usually pat and hug them together. :D

If you have a GSD dog and bitch combo (desexed of course) you don't have these problems, I could hug my boy all day and both bitches couldn't care less. Both dog and bitch will sit together and eat their bones and have never had a fight, maybe because my boy is a big sook.

I'm no expert but for many years we've always had three bitches together (before my GSD's) and one was always the boss and we only had problems if we let her be the boss instead of us. I don't think a behaviorist is needed as it's just common sence and that's free.

If you can't have your two bitches together without one biting the other, you have a real problem there. It sounds like you are not in control at all.

It is wrong to say that somebody won't have problems if they have a GSD dog and bitch combo. Sometimes fights can occur over things like food.

You are suggesting that the OP doesn't get professional help, yet you haven't offered anything helpful. Dog behaviour maybe common sense to dogs, but not to most people.

My GSD bitch is kept seperate when people come over because she is gelous of the attention my Rottie gets, it's that simple and doesn't happen at any other time and I don't need a behavourist to tell me that. :p

Tell me Greytmate what experience have you with GSD's, because you say it's wrong to say somebody won't have problems if they have a GSD dog and bitch combo. This combo has worked very well for me over the last 7yrs and this advice came from the GSDL who knows a little more about this wonderful breed than you.

Have you ever see two GSD dogs or bitches shaping up to fight, because if you had you would know why dog, bitch is the best. Sure my dog and bitch might have a small tiff once in a blue moon which is nothing compaired to what two Dogs or two Bitches can do.

I thought I gave some advice in my post as what to do, as it's what I do and it works for me. :D

[Gilypoo]

So Gilypoo, have you contacted a behaviourst yet?

No not yet... The girls have an appt at the vet next week to get checked out 1st to make sure nothing is wrong physically... Reccomendation on DOL was to not google search a Beahavourist so I was going to talk to my Vet and ask if he recommends anyone... Im going to try handle the situation at home in the mean while....

Tea last night was better... Molly the GSD actually ate all her food without coaxing her to... Bella the GD sooked at 1st cause she got fed seperatly but after a few minute conceded defeat and went 2 lay down straight after tea.. I know its only the 1st day but was a huge improvement... Dont worry they wont fool me. I will stick to it and get professional help after the vet..

[persephone]

Oh- and a vet may not be the best person to recommend a behaviourist You would be better off listening to people who have actually had dogs seen by someone- and there are DOL ers here who will give you recommendations.

[Gilypoo]

Oh- and a vet may not be the best person to recommend a behaviourist You would be better off listening to people who have actually had dogs seen by someone- and there are DOL ers here who will give you recommendations.

Ok kool, Does anyone know of someone that is in Bunbury... in the Southwest of WA or someone that will travel from perth (approx 2 hours)?

I am willing to drive to perth, but I was under the impression the person will need to see the dogs in their home environment. Is that correct?

[corvus]

Tell me Greytmate what experience have you with GSD's, because you say it's wrong to say somebody won't have problems if they have a GSD dog and bitch combo. This combo has worked very well for me over the last 7yrs and this advice came from the GSDL who knows a little more about this wonderful breed than you.

I think maybe Greytmate was suggesting that mixing sexes is not a guarantee of no fights rather than that it doesn't work at all. I suspect that it comes down to the personalities of the dogs more than the sexes, but it would also be foolish to rule out sexes seeing as it seems quite well known that bitches for example can be uglier when they start fighting than mixed sexes or two dogs (in some breeds), as you seem to know yourself. Nothing is guaranteed, but there are tendencies we can observe, as you have.

ETA My OH grew up in Bunbury. Yaaay Bunbury! Unfortunately he doesn't know any behaviourists over there, sorry.

Edited April 14, 2010 by corvus