Warm (above Body Temperature) Food Ok For Dogs?

[Erny]

OK - here's a potential 'stupid' one (thread question).

I have in the recesses of my mind/memory that I read somewhere that feeding meals to dogs that were above body temperature wasn't good for them. (ETA: I mean the meals being above body temperature, not the dogs ). I can't remember what the reason/s were - perhaps creating an environment in their stomach that might encourage bacteria??? (I don't mean stating the obvious, like meals too hot that they would burn their tongues/mouth/throat etc).

But honestly, the memory is so vague and I'm so unsure of this that I'm beginning to think I dreamt the idea (literally).

Has anyone else heard or know of this?

Once I get the answer (which I'm expecting is going to be "you , you dreamt it and it is a silly notion") I'll probably ask Troy to delete the thread because I'm already prepared to be 'd.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Erny

[Staranais]

Nothing I can think of?

[Lab_Rat]

Ive not heard of this Erny - and hope its okay, as I feed my girls their breakfasts warmed in the winter time!

Why do you ask? If you dont mind me asking?

Rat

[Erny]

Hhhhmmm .... then it is leaning more towards it being something I dreamt up.

Why do you ask? If you dont mind me asking?

The reason I ask is because Mandela went off eating any raw meat I offered him. In desperation (he had become too thin) I cooked him up some chicken and he ate it like no tomorrow. I've been cooking his meat (mostly chicken, but sometimes beef) and he is eating really, really well. It might not be something that lasts - he's done similar before when I've simply changed meat type or food formulas .... might eat it and go well on it for a period of months, then suddenly turn off it.

I don't want him to only eat cooked meat for the rest of his life and I do aim to wean him back to raw and see how he goes (although I admit I'm enjoying watching his enthusiasm for his meals over these past few weeks, and to seeing him looking better and better as the days roll on), but if "cooked" is what does it, then that's what he'll get. He receives nutritional additives as well though.

It's just that it struck me (as I was cooking one of his meals) that I had this thing in the back of my mind that someone had mentioned about temperature of the food being something to pay mind to.

Have you ever dreamt something that actually felt real to the point it was difficult to tell it apart from reality? I've done that once before, but I ain't gonna tell you THAT story because it is REALLY bizarre, not to mention embarrassing :).

[Mas1981]

I used to feed my previous dogs warm cooked food all the time and no side effects that I know of

[Lab_Rat]

Hhhhmmm .... then it is leaning more towards it being something I dreamt up.

Why do you ask? If you dont mind me asking?

The reason I ask is because Mandela went off eating any raw meat I offered him. In desperation (he had become too thin) I cooked him up some chicken and he ate it like no tomorrow. I've been cooking his meat (mostly chicken, but sometimes beef) and he is eating really, really well. It might not be something that lasts - he's done similar before when I've simply changed meat type or food formulas .... might eat it and go well on it for a period of months, then suddenly turn off it.

I don't want him to only eat cooked meat for the rest of his life and I do aim to wean him back to raw and see how he goes (although I admit I'm enjoying watching his enthusiasm for his meals over these past few weeks, and to seeing him looking better and better as the days roll on), but if "cooked" is what does it, then that's what he'll get. He receives nutritional additives as well though.

It's just that it struck me (as I was cooking one of his meals) that I had this thing in the back of my mind that someone had mentioned about temperature of the food being something to pay mind to.

Have you ever dreamt something that actually felt real to the point it was difficult to tell it apart from reality? I've done that once before, but I ain't gonna tell you THAT story because it is REALLY bizarre, not to mention embarrassing :).

Yes, I do know what you mean abut dreaming something that is so vivid later on down the track you are so sure it actually happened!

My Zola has suddenly decided she doesnt like raw meat at the moment as well!! She has eaten half cooked lamb mince for the last two night, with a bit of salmon and her kibble. She refused chicken wings and chunks of lamb meat - like they were festering bits of I dont know what ..........Crazy dog!!

So tonight I have cooked her up some lamb mince with veges...........she is more into chunks of veges than meat. Hopefully she will consume that tomorrow night - dont know what Ill do if she refuses that.

I also bought 3 tins of salmon today, while my sister laughed and said "You know she wont like it in two days"....

Rat

[Mas1981]

Are ridgebacks known to be fussy eaters? I had 2 at home with my parents, they still live with my mum actually and they also go off foods now and then??

Hhhhmmm .... then it is leaning more towards it being something I dreamt up.

Why do you ask? If you dont mind me asking?

The reason I ask is because Mandela went off eating any raw meat I offered him. In desperation (he had become too thin) I cooked him up some chicken and he ate it like no tomorrow. I've been cooking his meat (mostly chicken, but sometimes beef) and he is eating really, really well. It might not be something that lasts - he's done similar before when I've simply changed meat type or food formulas .... might eat it and go well on it for a period of months, then suddenly turn off it.

I don't want him to only eat cooked meat for the rest of his life and I do aim to wean him back to raw and see how he goes (although I admit I'm enjoying watching his enthusiasm for his meals over these past few weeks, and to seeing him looking better and better as the days roll on), but if "cooked" is what does it, then that's what he'll get. He receives nutritional additives as well though.

It's just that it struck me (as I was cooking one of his meals) that I had this thing in the back of my mind that someone had mentioned about temperature of the food being something to pay mind to.

Have you ever dreamt something that actually felt real to the point it was difficult to tell it apart from reality? I've done that once before, but I ain't gonna tell you THAT story because it is REALLY bizarre, not to mention embarrassing .

Yes, I do know what you mean abut dreaming something that is so vivid later on down the track you are so sure it actually happened!

My Zola has suddenly decided she doesnt like raw meat at the moment as well!! She has eaten half cooked lamb mince for the last two night, with a bit of salmon and her kibble. She refused chicken wings and chunks of lamb meat - like they were festering bits of I dont know what ..........Crazy dog!!

So tonight I have cooked her up some lamb mince with veges...........she is more into chunks of veges than meat. Hopefully she will consume that tomorrow night - dont know what Ill do if she refuses that.

I also bought 3 tins of salmon today, while my sister laughed and said "You know she wont like it in two days"....

Rat

[sandgrubber]

OK - here's a potential 'stupid' one (thread question).

I have in the recesses of my mind/memory that I read somewhere that feeding meals to dogs that were above body temperature wasn't good for them. (ETA: I mean the meals being above body temperature, not the dogs ). I can't remember what the reason/s were - perhaps creating an environment in their stomach that might encourage bacteria??? (I don't mean stating the obvious, like meals too hot that they would burn their tongues/mouth/throat etc).

But honestly, the memory is so vague and I'm so unsure of this that I'm beginning to think I dreamt the idea (literally).

Has anyone else heard or know of this?

Once I get the answer (which I'm expecting is going to be "you , you dreamt it and it is a silly notion") I'll probably ask Troy to delete the thread because I'm already prepared to be 'd.

[sandgrubber]

'Germs' tend to increase in numbers rapidly when food is warm. But a healthy dog is able to deal with 'nasties' in its food very effectively. You can feed Salmonella-infected food that would make people very sick to a healthy adult dog and see no ill effects.

As for the physiology of digestion . . . the closer to body temperature the better . .. less metabolic requirement. But really, this factor is nothing unless the dog in question is very fat or very skinny.

[KitKat]

Warming/cooking the food does tend to change and increase the smell of the food - could that be making difference?

[Natsu chan]

I can't see how it could be a problem? I know many people now insist that cooked food has the goodness cooked out of it but we fed warm home cooked food to our lot for 20 years with no problems at all. They all got raw meaty bones as well and yogurt among other things but the warm dinners never caused any problems that I could see. Cold straight out the fridge bones though, the oldies especially would often hide in their bedding and lie on them. I often wondered if the cold bones bothered their teeth as they got older.

[Erny]

As for the physiology of digestion . . . the closer to body temperature the better . .. less metabolic requirement. But really, this factor is nothing unless the dog in question is very fat or very skinny.

Ahhhhh ..... maybe THAT's what I remember (assuming I didn't dream it) reading/hearing of it. Thank you Sandgrubber ;)

My boy doesn't put weight on easily and has a tendancy to remain lean (loses weight very fast if he decides not to eat).

Sandgrubber - do you know if the metabolic rate changes depending on whether the food is cold or hot? What I mean by that is, if the food is warmer (than body temperature) does that slow the metabolic rate down and make it more inclined to increase weight? And conversley (for example) if the food were cold, would it speed metabolic rate and make it more inclined to lose weight? (Or vise versa, if my question makes any sense?)

I also wonder, for a dog who has or has had digestive issues, if slowing the metabolic rate down could be worse than speeding it up? Sorry, but this side of things I really don't have that much knowledge of, as far as nitty gritties go.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Erny

[Erny]

Warming/cooking the food does tend to change and increase the smell of the food - could that be making difference?

As far as my boy being enthusiastic about eating cooked, as opposed to his refusal to eat raw, you mean? Yes, I do think that could be making a difference.

I also have my own theory on the potential for him feeling nauseous and/or pain when eating and to him pairing that occurrence (time and time over) with the food he was eating. (Smell would come into this.) This might answer for how come he'll eat something for quite a while, then go 'off' it; then when I change food type all is good for a while, until he goes 'off' that too. Eventually it gets to the point where I have tried every (well, at least most) different food formula's/meat varieties (raw) that he just won't touch any more.

He's loving the cooked food (especially the chicken) but who knows ...... could be that he'll eat that happily for whatever period of time (months, even), then turn 'off' that. This is something that time will tell.

[Erny]

Are ridgebacks known to be fussy eaters? I had 2 at home with my parents, they still live with my mum actually and they also go off foods now and then??

I'm not sure, although from what I've heard from a few people, quite possibly. However I haven't spoken to what I would consider 'many' people with RR's on this. My previous (avatar) girl (bless her cotton socks) was somewhat fussy, but not too bad. But I adopted her when she was 7yo - foods such as offal she didn't like; nor raw vegies; etc. But that could simply have been that she had never had those foods introduced to her when she was younger and consequently never had the chance to develop a taste for it. She was never as "off and on" her food like my boy is. Provided she liked it to begin with, then she liked it .... full stop. And she used to love gnawing on bones.

[Rappie]

I also have my own theory on the potential for him feeling nauseous and/or pain when eating and to him pairing that occurrence (time and time over) with the food he was eating. (Smell would come into this.) This might answer for how come he'll eat something for quite a while, then go 'off' it; then when I change food type all is good for a while, until he goes 'off' that too. Eventually it gets to the point where I have tried every (well, at least most) different food formula's/meat varieties (raw) that he just won't touch any more.

They can certainly experience food aversion if there is an association to anything unpleasant (illness/ nausea / pain, location, other concurrents treatments).

I would also recommend feeding any raw meats (especially mince) very fresh, or defrosted from fresh frozen - particularly chicken. Regardless of what the canine gut is potentially able to handle, I wouldn't feed anything to a dog (particuarly a dog with any kind of digestive issues) that you wouldn't be prepared to eat yourself (you're allowed to cook it first though).

[Erny]

I would also recommend feeding any raw meats (especially mince) very fresh, or defrosted from fresh frozen - particularly chicken. Regardless of what the canine gut is potentially able to handle, I wouldn't feed anything to a dog (particuarly a dog with any kind of digestive issues) that you wouldn't be prepared to eat yourself (you're allowed to cook it first though).

Thanks Rappie. I certainly do that. IE Any meat I purchase is human grade and whether it is fed cooked or raw, is certainly delivered fresh. Oh .... except his bones. He returns to those a day or two later and if they've dried out enough in the sun he might be inclined to have a gnaw. Or if he's buried them he might pull them back up and have a go at them then. Unfortunately his bone eating habit isn't frequent enough and it is affecting his teeth (I have been giving them a brush for the want of nothing else). If I've fed chicken (be that wings; carcass; whole chicken; etc) and he doesn't eat it, I tend to pick it up and throw it. In the warmer weather I can't leave bones out anyway as this year has seen a lot of European Wasps who are, of course, attracted to the meat.

ETA: I know bones shouldn't be cooked, for the danger of bone splintering. Can they be gently warmed and still ok? I've harboured thoughts about whether this would encourage Mandela to get back into the habit of chewing on them more readily.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Erny

[Kelpie-i]

Hey Erny, great to hear that Mandela is eating!! Matters not if you have to heat it, but you already know that. Here's praying that it's permanent appetite.

[Erny]

Here's praying that it's permanent appetite.

Amen to that, Kelpie-i, and thank you. It's been so nice when people I've spoken to recently and who have asked after him, and I've been able to say he's looking well. It's not over yet, but things are getting better. But yes, always hanging over me is the very real possibility (if I reflect on his historical patterns) that it might not last. I need to keep that reality check in mind so that if things do go backwards I will be geared to bring it back forwards again, rather than to be too disappointed.

It's ear drops night (first of the second week of it). I'm looking forward to that ...... not.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Erny

[sandgrubber]

A few things to consider from the physics perspective:

- your dog and most raw food are > 80% water and the physical properties of water (exceptional high capacity to absorb and store heat) mean its influence will dominate the heat balance. Giving a few hundred grams of warm, raw food will have less effect on the dog (via the temperature effect) than drinking a cup of hot coffee does for you. Who knows, it may have the nice warming feeling that we get from hot food. Hard to say what sensations dogs feel.

- heating to, say 40 or 45 C, is unlikely to make bones splintery unless the way the heating is done means that the bony bits get hotter than the meat. Beyond me to work this out from first principles. If in doubt, try a test. Heat it and then smash a bit with a hammer. If you get long sharp shards, it's not safe. (In my family, we consider the knobby ends of chicken bones not-splintery, and allow our dogs to chomp them off the longer shanks when we eat cooked chook. Never had a problem. The problem is splinters, not cooking. The splinteryness and sharpness of bone fragments is VERY complicated. When in doubt, experiment.)

Edited April 12, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Staranais]

I often heat bones up by putting them in a hot bowl of water - heats them up enough to smell interesting, not enough to change the texture.