Puppy Deposits.

[Parkeyre]

So a friend has been waiting for four litters now, waiting for the right pup as decided by the breeder for my friend to show.

Friend wanted a boy and when the 5th litter was finally born a suitable boy was there.

Friend paid the deposit (50%) when the pup was 4days old, as intructed by breeder.

Now pup is almost 8 weeks, and pup is looking to be only pet quality for a few reasons.

Biggest being there is still no descended testicles while the other male in the litter has his.

Breeder has told friend that the pup can still be shown untill a year old and then it would have to be desexed.

Friend has asked for her deposit back, or to wait for next litter as this pup isn't what she's wanting.

Breeder has said no re: deposit and if she wants to wait to for next pup a new deposit will be required for that pup.

This is all 2nd hand information, obviously as I haven't spoken to the breeder.

I won't state the breed, but it's a toy breed.

Where does the friend stand as a buyer? She's already paid 50% off and is unsure of what to do.

ETA: Friend is not in my state, and is a family friend since going to school with my uncle.

Should she give her state canine control a call? or would it be wise to speak to someone else?

I will return in a few hours and print of any replies of advice for her.

Thankyou all.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Bonnie Parker

[Aziah]

Run...

Forget the deposit, not worth it, any breeder who wont' refund a deposit under those circumstances (or expects to keep that deposit AND receive another for a puppy from a different litter) is not worth dealing with.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Run...

Forget the deposit, not worth it, any breeder who wont' refund a deposit under those circumstances (or expects to keep that deposit AND receive another for a puppy from a different litter) is not worth dealing with.

Second that.

I do not take early deposits so that way I do not have to pay them back as I will have spent the money. :)

This person sounds very unethical.

[Dogsfevr]

half % depending on the price would be a far few dollars.

Breeder has told friend that the pup can still be shown untill a year old and then it would have to be desexed.

If the breeder did say this considering the dog at present has no testes there that is a worry.,any dog after 6 months shown without fully descended testes actually should go on report

Does the breeder charge different for show/pet because if what was said above is true then i would be expecting a refund once desexed on the show/pet price.

What does her receipt for the deposit say??

[sandgrubber]

In most circumstances, you can't be sued for libel if what you reveal is in the public interest and factually correct.

I'd say, check first. Is there documentation? Is the buyer telling the whole truth, etc. If it's as bad as it sounds: name and shame. The breeder in question is acting unethically, and deserves a figurative kick in the nuts, descended or not, or absent cause the breeder is more of a bitch than a dog.

Edited April 9, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Parkeyre]

I just texted and asked, and she says there was no reciept for the deposit as the pup would have came with a guarentee stating the pup was within the standard and thus show quality.

I told her it doesn't look good, and i would let her know anything more.

ETA: sandgrubber, i don't know if she is telling the full truth, she doesn't sound like she's lying, but possibly exaggerating?

I've never heard of 50% deposits?

Edited April 9, 2010 by Bonnie Parker

[centitout]

You cant show a dog after 6 mths without both testicles fully decended into the scrotum.Someone was seen pulling there dogs down manually and holding in place while the judge was going over the front the other day,they are well known for doing it apparently and good on the judge-dog was nil awarded

What about small claims-only costs $100 i think,but sure as hell sounds completely dodgy.Does your friend have any emails etc that could be used to stregthen her position?

[Christina]

Not sounding good without any proof.

How did your friend pay the deposit ?

Bank transfer etc is traceable & therefore proof.

No testicles by 6 months means get to the vet & find & remove them, not advisable to leave for a year.

Maybe they could phone the legal services commission for free legal advice. There is one listed in the phone book for every state. Its a starting place.

Ripped off for sure & very dishonest.

[lappiemum]

Depending on the email/paper trail, there may be breach of an implied promise (contract), I understand that in Vic even verbal agreements can be considered a valid contract. Also depending on how much was paid, it may be easier to have a strongly worded legal letter sent to the breeder - if we are talking thousands, it would be worth the cost of a letter. Your friend may also want to get onto the appropriate state canine authority and see if there are any options there - unlikely, but worth a go.

Small claims is the other way to go.

edit to add - the Breeder may dispute that there was an agreement that the dog would be a show prospect, but was there a different price for the 'show' prospect to what would have been charged for "pet" (and a different deposit paid). If so, that would indicate that there was an implied promise that the "goods" (in this case, a puppy) as far as the seller was concerned would be fit for their intended purpose of breeding/showing etc, and the fact that the "goods" can no longer fill that purpose would seem to indicate a breach of promise that will need to be remedied.

Edited April 9, 2010 by lappiemum

[Parkeyre]

Thanks for all the advice re: small claims, running and even how long a "one-nut-wonder" can be shown for

Spoken to friend just know, who said that the breeder is currently in the process of refunding the full 50% paid.

Said something along the lines of "wont be breeding any litters for a while, look somewhere else" and friend also

said that the breeder mentioned being "had a go at" online so I'm guessing someone had sent her this topic.

Good news is friend gets her monies back, and isn't stuck with a pet quality male with no nuts.

Understandably; she is quite shaken by the ordeal, she wanted to go to a registered breeder and show,

wanted to learn all about her favoured breed and form a bond with her breeder. It may take some time

now because of this, but I've told her that when she is ready, I'll post her breed of choice and her state

and hopefully someone could recommend a decent breeder who's not in it for the money.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Bonnie Parker

[dancinbcs]

I am constantly amazed at the people who hand over deposits for puppies without getting a receipt, stating exactly what that deposit is for.

The receipt should state that the puppy will be from a particular litter, that it will be main or limit register, if it will have show/breeding potential, if there are any conditions on the sale or disqualifying faults with the dog, when it will be available for collection, etc. Then if the puppy is not as promised the buyer has proof of what it should have been.

With a reputable breeder, this shouldn't be necessary but it helps avoid conflicts. Any reputable breeder would refund a deposit if there is not a suitable puppy available.

[Christina]

Thanks for all the advice re: small claims, running and even how long a "one-nut-wonder" can be shown for

Spoken to friend just know, who said that the breeder is currently in the process of refunding the full 50% paid.

Said something along the lines of "wont be breeding any litters for a while, look somewhere else" and friend also

said that the breeder mentioned being "had a go at" online so I'm guessing someone had sent her this topic.

Good news is friend gets her monies back, and isn't stuck with a pet quality male with no nuts.

Understandably; she is quite shaken by the ordeal, she wanted to go to a registered breeder and show,

wanted to learn all about her favoured breed and form a bond with her breeder. It may take some time

now because of this, but I've told her that when she is ready, I'll post her breed of choice and her state

and hopefully someone could recommend a decent breeder who's not in it for the money.

Great & fair result. This forum can be so good sometimes.

A hard way to learn for your friend but better luck next time around hopefully.

[Parkeyre]

Thankyou all for your help, and to whoever knew which breeder it was and spoke to them.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I am constantly amazed at the people who hand over deposits for puppies without getting a receipt, stating exactly what that deposit is for.

The receipt should state that the puppy will be from a particular litter, that it will be main or limit register, if it will have show/breeding potential, if there are any conditions on the sale or disqualifying faults with the dog, when it will be available for collection, etc. Then if the puppy is not as promised the buyer has proof of what it should have been.

With a reputable breeder, this shouldn't be necessary but it helps avoid conflicts. Any reputable breeder would refund a deposit if there is not a suitable puppy available.

:laugh: ;) ;) I had the daughter of a prospective buyer come and look at the pup at a show. She went off and spoke to her mum who obviously said she would have it and pay a deposit. I wrote a receipt on a piece of paper from the Age which I had there to place under the pups. ;)

[Bilbo Baggins]

Thankyou all for your help, and to whoever knew which breeder it was and spoke to them.

I am glad your friend has her money back. :laugh: ;) ;)